The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I don't think anything was close and the attack on Tel Aviv and Majdal Sham ended any chance of fast tracking that process.

Mohammed Deif and Hayineh killed,  that leaves Sinwar who is definitely hiding. 

The US and UAE supported by Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan want a post war Palestine under administration of the UAE and US until a stable government can be formed and the rebuilding of infrastructure is complete.   I can support that peace accord.   Meanwhile Hamas and Fatah ran off to China to agree to a unity government,   there is no way in hell that ever gets accepted.   

When Chris Cuomo is not reading scripted narrative he actually can be sensible. 

I just wish Israel would do these precision strikes more on Gaza. What's been shown in Damascus, Beirut, Tehran is they can do precision strikes that ultimately limit civilian casualties and take-out high-level members of the IRGC, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Whereas what we've seen in Gaza has been subjecting a large civilian population of mostly children to mass carnage.

Also if they could wipe out Khamenei, the Guardians Council, and a few top level IRGC lunatics out with these same kind of precision strikes they'd be doing a whole lot of good for: Palestinians, Iranians, and for their own safety. Clearly by striking within Tehran and Iranian government facilities in Syria, Israel already views itself as at war with Iran and has not been afraid to demonstrate it. Why not go for the jugular when they've shown they can do whatever they want within Iran's border?

[Spike]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I just wish Israel would do these precision strikes more on Gaza.

Wow dude chill

[Dr. Gonzo]

30 minutes ago, Spike said:

Wow dude chill

Well they're not really using precision on Gaza, they're mostly just blasting civilians and then saying "oh yeah, got some Hamas too"

[6666]

The level of evil these guys are is difficult to wrap my head around. You'd have to question the sanity and morality of any pro-Israeli.

[6666]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Also if they could wipe out Khamenei, the Guardians Council, and a few top level IRGC lunatics out with these same kind of precision strikes they'd be doing a whole lot of good for: Palestinians, Iranians, and for their own safety. Clearly by striking within Tehran and Iranian government facilities in Syria, Israel already views itself as at war with Iran and has not been afraid to demonstrate it. Why not go for the jugular when they've shown they can do whatever they want within Iran's border?

You say you want the evil dickheads in Israel to kill the evil dickheads in Iran and it's fine. I say I want the evil dickheads in Iran to kill the many evil dickheads in Israel and I'm "twerking for Khomeini"... 

Hopefully they take eachother out. Israel definitely has a lot of unrealised comeuppance. It'd do a whole lot of good for: Palestinians, Iranians, Syrians, the Lebanese, and every single country that has to deal with them buying their government. They have a lot of death they need to answer for.

[OrangeKhrush]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I just wish Israel would do these precision strikes more on Gaza. What's been shown in Damascus, Beirut, Tehran is they can do precision strikes that ultimately limit civilian casualties and take-out high-level members of the IRGC, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Whereas what we've seen in Gaza has been subjecting a large civilian population of mostly children to mass carnage.

Also if they could wipe out Khamenei, the Guardians Council, and a few top level IRGC lunatics out with these same kind of precision strikes they'd be doing a whole lot of good for: Palestinians, Iranians, and for their own safety. Clearly by striking within Tehran and Iranian government facilities in Syria, Israel already views itself as at war with Iran and has not been afraid to demonstrate it. Why not go for the jugular when they've shown they can do whatever they want within Iran's border?

It is a bit harder when Hamas know the only way they can survive is throwing their own to the wolves per se.    2300 miles of tunnels and bunkers and not a single civilian in them,  instead their "martyrs" hide like the cowards they are.   

The war is starting to show signs of the intended effect,  there are Palestinians turning on Hamas and Islamic jihad,  with Israel now controlling the Philadelphia line,  Hamas are no longer getting weapon smuggling through,  it will now be the slow bleed until they have no ability to fight,  the longer they refuse to give up, the more their people will suffer and likely give rise to uprising. 

I can't see this war going on to much longer,  or I hope it doesn't have to go on much longer. 

[OrangeKhrush]

43 minutes ago, 6666 said:

You say you want the evil dickheads in Israel to kill the evil dickheads in Iran and it's fine. I say I want the evil dickheads in Iran to kill the many evil dickheads in Israel and I'm "twerking for Khomeini"... 

Hopefully they take eachother out. Israel definitely has a lot of unrealised comeuppance. It'd do a whole lot of good for: Palestinians, Iranians, Syrians, the Lebanese, and every single country that has to deal with them buying their government. They have a lot of death they need to answer for.

I don't think he said that at all

[Dr. Gonzo]

27 minutes ago, 6666 said:

You say you want the evil dickheads in Israel to kill the evil dickheads in Iran and it's fine. I say I want the evil dickheads in Iran to kill the many evil dickheads in Israel and I'm "twerking for Khomeini"... 

Hopefully they take eachother out. Israel definitely has a lot of unrealised comeuppance. It'd do a whole lot of good for: Palestinians, Iranians, Syrians, the Lebanese, and every single country that has to deal with them buying their government. They have a lot of death they need to answer for.

You praised the Houthis and Hamas for acting on behalf of Khamenei (not Khomeini, he's been dead since the 80s) for doing shit like: killing people at a music festival & firing missiles at ships carrying cargo from China to Europe, all while Khamenei, Hamas, and the Houthis are content to let regular Palestinians and Yemenis feel the brunt of Israeli bombardment in response to these things.

I'm praising Israel for using pretty precise strikes against specific people, while simultaneously condemning them for not showing that same kind of precision and restraint on the Palestinians who they subjugate.

I think it's a pretty false equivalence to equate the two. You praised actual terrorism - I'm pointing out that Israel has once again demonstrated they can retaliate to terror attacks and actually target leaders of terror groups without causing anywhere near as much catastrophe for civilians as they've managed to do in Gaza. Even that strike in the "civilian area of Beirut" you posted about demonstrates a precise strike with restraint because only Hezbollah members appear to have died, namely a top commander.

Either way, Israel's never going to actually help cause a more peaceful middle east by actually doing something about the regime in Iran - I don't think they, nor their newfound Arab partners in the region, have any interest in a stable and rational acting government in Iran in control of the country's natural resources. Too much economic competition for the western friendly countries of the Middle East is probably their viewpoint - which is why many in Arab nations, especially the leaders of these countries, aren't particularly keen on the idea of Iran actually having a government that works for Iranians.

In any case, I think you should reconsider your total absolutist position with regard to Israelis. They are not all Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir. Yes, they're a democracy - and yes, Israeli voters do bare a huge amount of culpability for the human rights abuses Israel has carried out. But look at the people who were victims of the attack on Oct. 7th - many of them hated (and still hate) Netanyahu and actively worked to try to have better ties with their Arab neighbors in Gaza. Do these people deserve to die simply because of where they were born and because of the actions of their ancestors? You should be hoping for a better world for Palestinians, Iranians, Syrians, the Lebanese, etc., as well as Israelis.

Human rights are human rights. They don't apply to some people and not other people. Palestinians absolutely deserve a restoration of their human rights in Gaza and the occupied West Bank - and they absolutely deserve statehood. Does this mean Israel shouldn't exist? Some people obviously think so - but I don't see how you can punish modern generations for the sins of past generations. Their crime was being born in a certain part of the world as a Jewish Israeli? They're still entitled to human rights and to not be talked about like they are fucking animals deserving a trip to the slaughterhouse.

Tensions in the Middle East will subside if enough civilians in all of these countries can feel like they're not living their lives under the barrel of a gun and the constant threat of warfare and instability. Israelis, Palestinians, legit any Middle Eastern ethnicity you can think up - there's a good chance there's a large group of them that feel like they live at the end of the barrel of a gun.

[6666]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You praised the Houthis and Hamas for acting on behalf of Khamenei (not Khomeini, he's been dead since the 80s) for doing shit like: killing people at a music festival & firing missiles at ships carrying cargo from China to Europe, all while Khamenei, Hamas, and the Houthis are content to let regular Palestinians and Yemenis feel the brunt of Israeli bombardment in response to these things.

I'm praising Israel for using pretty precise strikes against specific people, while simultaneously condemning them for not showing that same kind of precision and restraint on the Palestinians who they subjugate.

I think it's a pretty false equivalence to equate the two. You praised actual terrorism - I'm pointing out that Israel has once again demonstrated they can retaliate to terror attacks and actually target leaders of terror groups without causing anywhere near as much catastrophe for civilians as they've managed to do in Gaza. Even that strike in the "civilian area of Beirut" you posted about demonstrates a precise strike with restraint because only Hezbollah members appear to have died, namely a top commander.

Either way, Israel's never going to actually help cause a more peaceful middle east by actually doing something about the regime in Iran - I don't think they, nor their newfound Arab partners in the region, have any interest in a stable and rational acting government in Iran in control of the country's natural resources. Too much economic competition for the western friendly countries of the Middle East is probably their viewpoint - which is why many in Arab nations, especially the leaders of these countries, aren't particularly keen on the idea of Iran actually having a government that works for Iranians.

In any case, I think you should reconsider your total absolutist position with regard to Israelis. They are not all Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir. Yes, they're a democracy - and yes, Israeli voters do bare a huge amount of culpability for the human rights abuses Israel has carried out. But look at the people who were victims of the attack on Oct. 7th - many of them hated (and still hate) Netanyahu and actively worked to try to have better ties with their Arab neighbors in Gaza. Do these people deserve to die simply because of where they were born and because of the actions of their ancestors? You should be hoping for a better world for Palestinians, Iranians, Syrians, the Lebanese, etc., as well as Israelis.

Human rights are human rights. They don't apply to some people and not other people. Palestinians absolutely deserve a restoration of their human rights in Gaza and the occupied West Bank - and they absolutely deserve statehood. Does this mean Israel shouldn't exist? Some people obviously think so - but I don't see how you can punish modern generations for the sins of past generations. Their crime was being born in a certain part of the world as a Jewish Israeli? They're still entitled to human rights and to not be talked about like they are fucking animals deserving a trip to the slaughterhouse.

Tensions in the Middle East will subside if enough civilians in all of these countries can feel like they're not living their lives under the barrel of a gun and the constant threat of warfare and instability. Israelis, Palestinians, legit any Middle Eastern ethnicity you can think up - there's a good chance there's a large group of them that feel like they live at the end of the barrel of a gun.

Your comment came after I said I hope Iran retaliates and gets as many IDF terrorists as possible. Or maybe it even included their terrible, blood thirsty politicians. There wasn't a "I hope they kill all Israelis" statement like You're imagining up. So your whole "they deserve human rights too" doesn't really apply to anything I've said. I wouldn't even wish the evil dickheads in Israel get treated like Israel has treated Palestinians. You have a "look what they made Israel do" stance which is your perspective on Israel's conflicts but you don't need to support that stance by making shit up about people that don't share that stance (although that is very normal for the pro-Israel crowd)....

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

It is a bit harder when Hamas know the only way they can survive is throwing their own to the wolves per se.    2300 miles of tunnels and bunkers and not a single civilian in them,  instead their "martyrs" hide like the cowards they are.   

The war is starting to show signs of the intended effect,  there are Palestinians turning on Hamas and Islamic jihad,  with Israel now controlling the Philadelphia line,  Hamas are no longer getting weapon smuggling through,  it will now be the slow bleed until they have no ability to fight,  the longer they refuse to give up, the more their people will suffer and likely give rise to uprising. 

I can't see this war going on to much longer,  or I hope it doesn't have to go on much longer. 

I just don't see how Israeli intelligence can be so good in Syria, Lebanon, and Iran... but not Gaza which is right fucking there and where they've been fighting a war for nearly a year.

I truly do feel that, especially under Netanyahu's times in power, that collective punishment of the Palestinian people has absolutely been a part of the tactic in trying to keep Hamas and Fatah in check. I don't think this has been a particularly effective tactic in any respect other than fueling extremist hatred towards all things Israel (and by extension the US and the West) among Palestinians.

This is what US politicians warned Israel of before the invasion of Gaza: don't make the same mistakes the US did while hunting for revenge after Sept 11th - you don't win hearts and minds of a population by bombing the shit out of them and treating them like they are all terrorists. There is a generation that has been brutalised by the IDF, yet again, what will happen when they grow up? Look at Lebanon - the country is split between Sunnis, Shia, and Christians. Between the Sunnis and Christians... Hezbollah, Iran's proxy, is absolutely hated. Yet Israel is hated even more due to how Israel fought their last war against Lebanon. A lot of Lebanese think that Israelis view their lives as next to worthless - because that's what the IDF's way of fighting seemed to demonstrate.

Lebanese people are scared shitless of Hezbollah pulling Lebanon to war because they remember things like unreasonably large civilian casualties, or their very tourism dependent economy being set back for years (and arguably never truly recovering) by having the Beiruit international airport destroyed in response to Hezbollah's attacks.

I just don't see how Israel expects to have a meaningful and lasting peace without demonstrating the same kind of precision and restraint the recent attacks in Syria, Lebanon, and Iran did in Gaza. Palestinians are justified in saying things like "Israel/the IDF don't care if I'm not a terrorist, they'll treat me like one" due to the decades of collective punishment and the optics of callous disregard for their lives.

Islamicists will use these justifiable feelings to make propaganda that says "Israel is at war with Islam and all Muslims" as a result of the lack of precision and the lack of restraint. We know this because Islamicists have done this and still do this.

This conflict isn't new. Hamas knew how Israel would react, Israel knew Hamas would leave Gazans vulnerable to massive civilian casualties. So why the fuck's Israel bombed refugee camps? Why've they opened fire on people at refugee camps trying to get food? Why do things that have been done for decades that don't actually bring about peace and just keep the status quo of hate and human rights abuses coming?

I think the answer is for certain groups in Israeli politics, there's a political advantage to drawing this conflict out for as long as possible and there's a political advantage for keeping the conditions of Gaza in a state where extremism is destined to be borne out of it. If Israel truly wants peace and a more secure future for their future generations, they are the ones in a position of power that can actually extend the olive branch to Palestinians.

To me, the targeted strikes in Syria, Lebanon and Iran all demonstrate one thing: Netanyahu wants to go after the leaders of Iran's proxies - but they don't want to risk this turning into a 2 front war for them, or worse - a full blown regional conflict. But when it comes to Gaza, he sees no such need for restraint because he doesn't fear the blowback of extremism from Gaza. I think if anything, he's expecting it.

[OrangeKhrush]

Evil is really a subjective thing these days,  most objective bystanders will pretty much know that Hamas and the other Islamist groups are the epitome of evil and have subjected their own to far worse.   

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Your comment came after I said I hope Iran retaliates and gets as many IDF terrorists as possible. Or maybe it even included their terrible, blood thirsty politicians. There wasn't a "I hope they kill all Israelis" statement like You're imagining up. So your whole "they deserve human rights too" doesn't really apply to anything I've said. I wouldn't even wish the evil dickheads in Israel get treated like Israel has treated Palestinians. You have a "look what they made Israel do" stance which is your perspective on Israel's conflicts but you don't need to support that stance by making shit up about people that don't share that stance (although that is very normal for the pro-Israel crowd)....

lol "the pro-Israel crowd" - yeah I'm super pro-Israel, that's why I've called them war criminals and said their leadership are deliberately acting in a way that is set up to keep this conflict raging eternally. Mate, please go learn what the fuck nuance is. There are some people I think aren't capable of understanding what nuance is... but you, I know you're capable of it.

But I'm sorry if I mistook your thoughts on Israelis - I'd based it on when you'd said the deaths of October 7th were justifiable because "it was like a slave revolt;" to me that seemed like a justification of the kids who were kidnapped and/or killed because of the history of the region that these particular kids are not guilty of.

And for the record, I've never taken the position of "look what they made Israel do" - I've taken the position that "everyone knows how Israel would react to October 7th" particularly because Israel is run by far-right psychopaths. And I have been very critical of the way Israel and the IDF have fought this war in a way that is guaranteed to breed more extremism. FFS look at my last post lol.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, 6666 said:

The level of evil these guys are is difficult to wrap my head around. You'd have to question the sanity and morality of any pro-Israeli.

 

5 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Evil is really a subjective thing these days,  most objective bystanders will pretty much know that Hamas and the other Islamist groups are the epitome of evil and have subjected their own to far worse.   

Hamas & Ben-Gvir both share a belief that rape is a justifiable weapon of war.

Maybe both sides aren't so different after all.

[OrangeKhrush]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I just don't see how Israeli intelligence can be so good in Syria, Lebanon, and Iran... but not Gaza which is right fucking there and where they've been fighting a war for nearly a year.

I truly do feel that, especially under Netanyahu's times in power, that collective punishment of the Palestinian people has absolutely been a part of the tactic in trying to keep Hamas and Fatah in check. I don't think this has been a particularly effective tactic in any respect other than fueling extremist hatred towards all things Israel (and by extension the US and the West) among Palestinians.

This is what US politicians warned Israel of before the invasion of Gaza: don't make the same mistakes the US did while hunting for revenge after Sept 11th - you don't win hearts and minds of a population by bombing the shit out of them and treating them like they are all terrorists. There is a generation that has been brutalised by the IDF, yet again, what will happen when they grow up? Look at Lebanon - the country is split between Sunnis, Shia, and Christians. Between the Sunnis and Christians... Hezbollah, Iran's proxy, is absolutely hated. Yet Israel is hated even more due to how Israel fought their last war against Lebanon. A lot of Lebanese think that Israelis view their lives as next to worthless - because that's what the IDF's way of fighting seemed to demonstrate.

Lebanese people are scared shitless of Hezbollah pulling Lebanon to war because they remember things like unreasonably large civilian casualties, or their very tourism dependent economy being set back for years (and arguably never truly recovering) by having the Beiruit international airport destroyed in response to Hezbollah's attacks.

I just don't see how Israel expects to have a meaningful and lasting peace without demonstrating the same kind of precision and restraint the recent attacks in Syria, Lebanon, and Iran did in Gaza. Palestinians are justified in saying things like "Israel/the IDF don't care if I'm not a terrorist, they'll treat me like one" due to the decades of collective punishment and the optics of callous disregard for their lives.

Islamicists will use these justifiable feelings to make propaganda that says "Israel is at war with Islam and all Muslims" as a result of the lack of precision and the lack of restraint. We know this because Islamicists have done this and still do this.

This conflict isn't new. Hamas knew how Israel would react, Israel knew Hamas would leave Gazans vulnerable to massive civilian casualties. So why the fuck's Israel bombed refugee camps? Why've they opened fire on people at refugee camps trying to get food? Why do things that have been done for decades that don't actually bring about peace and just keep the status quo of hate and human rights abuses coming?

I think the answer is for certain groups in Israeli politics, there's a political advantage to drawing this conflict out for as long as possible and there's a political advantage for keeping the conditions of Gaza in a state where extremism is destined to be borne out of it. If Israel truly wants peace and a more secure future for their future generations, they are the ones in a position of power that can actually extend the olive branch to Palestinians.

To me, the targeted strikes in Syria, Lebanon and Iran all demonstrate one thing: Netanyahu wants to go after the leaders of Iran's proxies - but they don't want to risk this turning into a 2 front war for them, or worse - a full blown regional conflict. But when it comes to Gaza, he sees no such need for restraint because he doesn't fear the blowback of extremism from Gaza. I think if anything, he's expecting it.

The Palastine situation is difficult,  part of the difficulty is Hamas dress like civilians which is a violation of Geneva Convensions;

The requirements for a militia though is that:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) that of carrying arms openly;

(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

None are complied with making it difficult for armies to ascertain risk.   The common tactic is to try blind side troops but the skill and training in urban warfare has mitigated the "shooting in the back" tactics and reduced IDF losses to minimal.    

Rafah was supposed to be a blood bath yet it has turned out to be the most constrained operation of the entire conflict.   The IDF captured the dead bodies of Hamas fighters for tagging and bagging purposes,  over 2000 killed to under 200 civilians which is unfortunate but very reserved.    The big issue now is that hamas is embeded within the refugee camps in northern Gaza.   

The best tactic now is to put the lock down on,  blockades should prevent any munitions or weapons smuggling into Gaza the UN should be forced to go in and set up food distribution camps with the IDF pulling out,  the UN are afraid of the IDF,  so surely Hamas won't scare them then. 

[OrangeKhrush]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Hamas & Ben-Gvir both share a belief that rape is a justifiable weapon of war.

Maybe both sides aren't so different after all.

ben Gvir talks to a very specific sect,  one that has little to no power and will likely be out of government soon.    That is the difference sociopaths can get voted out whereas theirs stay in power forever or until they get killed. 

Another major difference between Israel and Palestine is,  these soldiers will go to prison for life and deservedly so,  Hamas fighters that killed children, raped girls are treated like heroes,  even when they die. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The Palastine situation is difficult,  part of the difficulty is Hamas dress like civilians which is a violation of Geneva Convensions;

The requirements for a militia though is that:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) that of carrying arms openly;

(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

None are complied with making it difficult for armies to ascertain risk.   The common tactic is to try blind side troops but the skill and training in urban warfare has mitigated the "shooting in the back" tactics and reduced IDF losses to minimal.    

Rafah was supposed to be a blood bath yet it has turned out to be the most constrained operation of the entire conflict.   The IDF captured the dead bodies of Hamas fighters for tagging and bagging purposes,  over 2000 killed to under 200 civilians which is unfortunate but very reserved.    The big issue now is that hamas is embeded within the refugee camps in northern Gaza.   

The best tactic now is to put the lock down on,  blockades should prevent any munitions or weapons smuggling into Gaza the UN should be forced to go in and set up food distribution camps with the IDF pulling out,  the UN are afraid of the IDF,  so surely Hamas won't scare them then. 

Hamas are terrorists masquerading as a legitimate government - of course they don't recognise the Geneva Conventions. Israel's an actual country, not a terror group, they are rightly held to a higher standard when fighting against a terror group.

I'm not sure the pure numbers reflect very reserved warfare in Gaza - just take a look at this:

There were an estimated 24 million people in Iraq before the US invaded. There were 2.1 million inhabitants, roughly, in Gaza on October 7th. So even if the numbers of civilian deaths Egypt and Israel are reporting are more accurate than Hamas's civilian death count... think of the proportionality.

And Israel's dropped about 10x as many munitions as the US did on Iraq in under a year as the US did for the entirety of the fucking war.

If your war is making the United States invasion of Iraq look relatively humane and demonstrating more care for civilian populations... your war is a fucking absolute abomination and you deserve international condemnation.

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

ben Gvir talks to a very specific sect,  one that has little to no power and will likely be out of government soon.    That is the difference sociopaths can get voted out whereas theirs stay in power forever or until they get killed. 

Another major difference between Israel and Palestine is,  these soldiers will go to prison for life and deservedly so,  Hamas fighters that killed children, raped girls are treated like heroes,  even when they die. 

He's the fucking Minister of National Security, what are you talking about? He's the head of: the Israeli police, prison service, fire rescue, border security, and community safety.

He has an extraordinary amount of power.

[6666]

9 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The Palastine situation is difficult,  part of the difficulty is Hamas dress like civilians which is a violation of Geneva Convensions;

The requirements for a militia though is that:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) that of carrying arms openly;

(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

None are complied with making it difficult for armies to ascertain risk.   The common tactic is to try blind side troops but the skill and training in urban warfare has mitigated the "shooting in the back" tactics and reduced IDF losses to minimal.    

Rafah was supposed to be a blood bath yet it has turned out to be the most constrained operation of the entire conflict.   The IDF captured the dead bodies of Hamas fighters for tagging and bagging purposes,  over 2000 killed to under 200 civilians which is unfortunate but very reserved.    The big issue now is that hamas is embeded within the refugee camps in northern Gaza.   

The best tactic now is to put the lock down on,  blockades should prevent any munitions or weapons smuggling into Gaza the UN should be forced to go in and set up food distribution camps with the IDF pulling out,  the UN are afraid of the IDF,  so surely Hamas won't scare them then. 

Still being on the "IDF are good guys" train is pretty wild. Rarely see it now outside of far right extremists that just want to see dead brown people. That and Michael Rappaport who seems to have lost his mind.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, 6666 said:

Michael Rappaport

lol everyone with this surname turns out to be crazy as fuck

[OrangeKhrush]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Hamas are terrorists masquerading as a legitimate government - of course they don't recognise the Geneva Conventions. Israel's an actual country, not a terror group, they are rightly held to a higher standard when fighting against a terror group.

I'm not sure the pure numbers reflect very reserved warfare in Gaza - just take a look at this:

There were an estimated 24 million people in Iraq before the US invaded. There were 2.1 million inhabitants, roughly, in Gaza on October 7th. So even if the numbers of civilian deaths Egypt and Israel are reporting are more accurate than Hamas's civilian death count... think of the proportionality.

And Israel's dropped about 10x as many munitions as the US did on Iraq in under a year as the US did for the entirety of the fucking war.

If your war is making the United States invasion of Iraq look relatively humane and demonstrating more care for civilian populations... your war is a fucking absolute abomination and you deserve international condemnation.

There are caveats, iraq is big and the Iraqi military engaged coalition forces in open conflict.   Proportionally the ISIS war relative to operations saw a massive amount of US ordinance dropped on civilian towns in iraq and syria.  

The symmetry of urban conflict makes it dangerous but Hamas knew the game and could have put civilians in these tunnels, instead they used the civilians to conduct war crimes behind.  Whether you call palastine a state or islamist caliphate Pepsi lite it does not change rules of engagement and culpability to breach of conventions.  Haniyeh a few months back made an interview calling on more palastinian death to push their narrative.  

I am not disputing that the war has been violent, the level of intensity from November compared to current has fallen off, the most recent strikes have been to eliminate the high valued targets and degrade Hamas's ability to continue fighting.  

We are now seeing Yemeni uprising against the Houthis, uprising in Lebenon against Hezbollah and celebrations in Tehran by anti IRGC rebellions.

What happens going forward I dont know, the United States can no longer play pacifist to appease voting blocks, America's reputation is in tatters and only strength can see them rise to the king of the pride, sanctions on iran are needed to reduce their influence, normalization agreements with UAE, Saudi Arabia, Israel and US will usher in regional stability, it will also repair the image of Islam as not expansionist or violent.  It will also push the powerful gulf states away from Russia and China.

[OrangeKhrush]

11 hours ago, 6666 said:

Still being on the "IDF are good guys" train is pretty wild. Rarely see it now outside of far right extremists that just want to see dead brown people. That and Michael Rappaport who seems to have lost his mind.

Islamism is the very definition of far right, supporting groups that espouse that ideology is supporting fascism or islamofascism.

Calling Rappaport far right is wild considering his social media meltdowns in 2020, the dude was sipping some serious identity politics koolaid.  

I am perfectly fine with the prosecution of soldiers that broke rules of engagement or if they carried out violations of geneva conventions and they get sentenced accordingly.  That is not new for western militaries to prosecute dishonorable soldiers, one such American soldier who was convicted of executing 23 Vietnamese civilians died in prison at the age of 80 having served around 40 years in prison.

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Islamism is the very definition of far right, supporting groups that espouse that ideology is supporting fascism or islamofascism.

Calling Rappaport far right is wild considering his social media meltdowns in 2020, the dude was sipping some serious identity politics koolaid.  

I am perfectly fine with the prosecution of soldiers that broke rules of engagement or if they carried out violations of geneva conventions and they get sentenced accordingly.  That is not new for western militaries to prosecute dishonorable soldiers, one such American soldier who was convicted of executing 23 Vietnamese civilians died in prison at the age of 80 having served around 40 years in prison.

The bolded parts doesn't exclude each other. Ethno-nationalism is identity politics.

[OrangeKhrush]

16 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

The bolded parts doesn't exclude each other. Ethno-nationalism is identity politics.

You can go look at michael rapaports past tiktoks,  he was pushing the left wing narrative hard,  calling him far right is something that is done when someone no longer pushed the right narrative.    Bill Maher another vote blue no matter who has been regarded as far right.   

If you said Michael Rappaport is an idiot I would agree

[Rucksackfranzose]

7 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

You can go look at michael rapaports past tiktoks,  he was pushing the left wing narrative hard,  calling him far right is something that is done when someone no longer pushed the right narrative.    Bill Maher another vote blue no matter who has been regarded as far right.   

If you said Michael Rappaport is an idiot I would agree

Wasn't me, whosaid Rappaport would be far right. Just pointed out, your counter-arguement was nonsense.

[OrangeKhrush]

PEW REPORT JUNE 2024

It was interesting some of the findings in the latest report on the political landscape of Israel.    It seems that Arab and Jewish Israeli's are not far apart on critical sectors of functional society.   The telling difference is down to law enforcement and the military however that requires a deep look into why.   Law enforcement should be applied fairly not proportionally and thus if crime is carried out the perpetrator should be punished irrespective of ethnicity. 

All Israeli's combined seem to be differentiated predominantly on secularism / non secularism grounds,  the rest of society is rather close on other critical areas. 

Benny Gantz is likely to win however Yair Lapid is not polling badly,  Lapid may also bring in Mansour Abbas of Ra'am into his cooperation government.   They have previously worked in co-operation to improve Bedouin society and improve integration between Arab and Jewish Israeli's,  he also has worked on trying to integrate Jewish and Palestinian's in the Hebron region which is a much harder task,  there are some fruits showing but I would not call it made in stone.    The best path to peace is being able to break the ethnic difference,  when you can tolerate people who are the complete opposite it bodes well for sustainable growth.