FIFA Women's World Cup - Final - USA 2-0 Netherlands

[Eco]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

What does that bold have to do with anything?

Ah - now I see. When you said that we won 'to the fanfare of many', I took this as tongue in cheek, as there have been numerous discussions on here about how 'unlikeable' and 'disagreeable' the US women's team is because of their arrogance. 

I was simply stating that if this what you meant, that England, IMO, showed more arrogance, yet it was seen as a type of coming together, not detestable. The other two differences between the USWNT and England's MNT is that USA were the favorites and are women. 

[Eco]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't scream for PKs and I always think off the ball fouls are soft. 

Also yes there is.

Apologies, there wasn't when I initially looked. 

I still don't think I can consider that an off the ball foul, though. If Morgan isn't fouled, she gets the first touch in an obvious goal scoring opportunity. Instead, she still gets first touch of the ball, but is then taken out. 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

Ah - now I see. When you said that we won 'to the fanfare of many', I took this as tongue in cheek, as there have been numerous discussions on here about how 'unlikeable' and 'disagreeable' the US women's team is because of their arrogance. 

I was simply stating that if this what you meant, that England, IMO, showed more arrogance, yet it was seen as a type of coming together, not detestable. The other two differences between the USWNT and England's MNT is that USA were the favorites and are women. 

The coverage the women received dwarfed the Gold Cup and the Copa America, unfairly I may add. If it were reversed it would be controversial, but I don’t care about that at all. ‘It is coming home’ is a joke, not arrogant at all. ‘E.A.S.Y.’ from 2010 is arrogance. 

I only dislike Alex Morgan and Christen Press, not the team; but that is because I know people that have met them and have relayed they are insufferable cunts. I will also add, I do not care at all about international pay equality, mainly because I think professionally employed players should receive no pay for international duties, nor do I believe they should be payed for winning international tournaments, so really I have no biases that some others may have. I stopped caring when the Matildas were eliminated.

5 minutes ago, Eco said:

Apologies, there wasn't when I initially looked. 

I still don't think I can consider that an off the ball foul, though. If Morgan isn't fouled, she gets the first touch in an obvious goal scoring opportunity. Instead, she still gets first touch of the ball, but is then taken out. 

From what I see, Morgan is metres away from the ball, slows down and adjusts herself to win a foul. I don’t think she wanted to cop a foot to the arm but I definitely think she had committed to the foul, not the ball. I just fundamentally disagree with how calls are made inside the box, versus outside. 

[Eco]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

The coverage the women received dwarfed the Gold Cup and the Copa America, unfairly I may add. If it were reversed it would be controversial, but I don’t care about that at all. ‘It is coming home’ is a joke, not arrogant at all. ‘E.A.S.Y.’ from 2010 is arrogance. 

I only dislike Alex Morgan and Christen Press, not the team; but that is because I know people that have met them and have relayed they are insufferable cunts. I will also add, I do not care at all about international pay equality, mainly because I think professionally employed players should receive no pay for international duties, nor do I believe they should be payed for winning international tournaments, so really I have no biases that some others may have. I stopped caring when the Matildas were eliminated.

From what I see, Morgan is metres away from the ball, slows down and adjusts herself to win a foul. I don’t think she wanted to cop a foot to the arm but I definitely think she had committed to the foul, not the ball. I just fundamentally disagree with how calls are made inside the box, versus outside. 

Viewership on the world stage? That doesn't surprise me. Here is the States, I'd be shocked if the USA vs Mexico drew better than then World Cup Final. I also am not sure what the E.A.S.Y. slogan was back in 2010..? 

I'd also be surprised about the viewership comment because announced that the USA WNT jersey was the top selling soccer jersey on Nike.Com for the year, which is pretty incredible when you think about it. I love the fact that the players get paid for participating, and winning international competitions. There is a lot of money there, and I'd much rather it go to the players, than to the legalizing bodies administration. The equity pay is certainly a shame here in the States, as they have released documents showing the our Women's Team generates more money than our men's, but are paid just a fraction. It appears to be clearly biased and one that I no doubt expect us to rectify. 

I saw Morgan as slowing down to play the ball, saw the boot coming for her, and then braced herself for it. Difference of opinions certainly, but I would think we can agree on the fact that it was reckless on the defender and she put herself in a very bad position. 

 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

Viewership on the world stage? That doesn't surprise me. Here is the States, I'd be shocked if the USA vs Mexico drew better than then World Cup Final. I also am not sure what the E.A.S.Y. slogan was back in 2010..? 

I'd also be surprised about the viewership comment because announced that the USA WNT jersey was the top selling soccer jersey on Nike.Com for the year, which is pretty incredible when you think about it. I love the fact that the players get paid for participating, and winning international competitions. There is a lot of money there, and I'd much rather it go to the players, than to the legalizing bodies administration. The equity pay is certainly a shame here in the States, as they have released documents showing the our Women's Team generates more money than our men's, but are paid just a fraction. It appears to be clearly biased and one that I no doubt expect us to rectify. 

I saw Morgan as slowing down to play the ball, saw the boot coming for her, and then braced herself for it. Difference of opinions certainly, but I would think we can agree on the fact that it was reckless on the defender and she put herself in a very bad position. 

 

I read the same article. The women did draw $1.9 million more than the men, but it also neglects the fact that they play more international games. Which is also a shame, because they have a higher workload. I don’t the federation or players should receive prize money, it should be for the glory and sport of the game. Well, maybe for friendlies they should be comped, but not competition.

 

[Eco]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

I read the same article. The women did draw $1.9 million more than the men, but it also neglects the fact that they play more international games. Which is also a shame, because they have a higher workload. I don’t the federation or players should receive prize money, it should be for the glory and sport of the game. Well, maybe for friendlies they should be comped, but not competition.

 

Yes, it's not that uncommon to see a woman get 200, or 300 caps for her country, whereas in the men's game, that just doesn't happen. 

Where would you have the money go? There is a ton of revenue for these types of competitions, so certainly someone has to get the money. Why not play the players who risk their bodies for our entertainment? 

[Stan]

13 minutes ago, Eco said:

I also am not sure what the E.A.S.Y. slogan was back in 2010..? 

It was one trash newspaper (The Sun, I think?) here in UK with the acronym 'EASY' as its front page headline for England's group stage at the 2010 WC.

England
Algeria
Slovenia
Yanks

[Eco]

Just now, Stan said:

It was one trash newspaper (The Sun, I think?) here in UK with the acronym 'EASY' as its front page headline for England's group stage at the 2010 WC.

England
Algeria
Slovenia
Yanks

Ha - I remember that now. And the Yanks won the group if I remember correctly. 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

Ha - I remember that now. And the Yanks won the group if I remember correctly. 

Yes.

England only scored 2 goals in the group yet still qualified but it was boring as fuck.

[Spike]

9 minutes ago, Eco said:

Yes, it's not that uncommon to see a woman get 200, or 300 caps for her country, whereas in the men's game, that just doesn't happen. 

Where would you have the money go? There is a ton of revenue for these types of competitions, so certainly someone has to get the money. Why not play the players who risk their bodies for our entertainment? 

Grassroots programs and charity. 

[Eco]

Just now, Stan said:

Yes.

England only scored 2 goals in the group yet still qualified but it was boring as fuck.

Yeah - and the USA vs England game was very boring too, I think? 

But yeah, that is a pretty obnoxious saying, but the Sun. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Eco said:

I know 'my girls' won it, and I am also aware that most people hate the 'arrogance' of our National Team, but a lot of these people weren't upset with England in the WC when they were singing 'The Cup is coming home', despite not making it past the semi-finals. If our Women's team has such a song, this place would be up in arms over the arrogance, but not so when it involved the English Men's team at the World Cup. 

Are you suggesting that fans and players should display the same mentality? I don't think they should, I think the players should be held to a much higher standard since they're the ones who are going up against fellow professionals. Who I think are the ones that are being disrespected by the arrogance of that team. Whereas fans singing "it's coming home" (a song from when England hosted the Euros btw), it's just a bunch of fans being enthusiastic about their nation in a tournament - like that "we believe that we can win" or "USA USA USA USA" chant.

They won though, and they were by far and away the best team in the tournament. The competition really wasn't close tbh. So they're deserved winners. I just don't like the personalities of some of the players that are the face of the side. At least the personality they display publicly for the TV cameras, which comes off as pretty contemptuous towards the competition. Regardless of whether they do nice things like console players distraught at the scoreline after being ruthlessly massacred.

[Eco]

51 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Are you suggesting that fans and players should display the same mentality? I don't think they should, I think the players should be held to a much higher standard since they're the ones who are going up against fellow professionals. Who I think are the ones that are being disrespected by the arrogance of that team. Whereas fans singing "it's coming home" (a song from when England hosted the Euros btw), it's just a bunch of fans being enthusiastic about their nation in a tournament - like that "we believe that we can win" or "USA USA USA USA" chant.

They won though, and they were by far and away the best team in the tournament. The competition really wasn't close tbh. So they're deserved winners. I just don't like the personalities of some of the players that are the face of the side. At least the personality they display publicly for the TV cameras, which comes off as pretty contemptuous towards the competition. Regardless of whether they do nice things like console players distraught at the scoreline after being ruthlessly massacred.

I didn't notice them being more arrogant than all the other major sides. I watched most of the matches and there is a lot of confidence between the major players in this tournament, USA obviously included. They probably put more pressure on themselves by answering questions truthfully and not worried about their public appearance, but in the end, they won. Again, in the States, this kind of demeanor isn't unusual if you want the NFL, NBA, or MLB, and even in the MLS...but for some reason it's a 'big deal' when our women do it. 

[6666]

So you're saying Americans don't know how to act when it comes to world sports...?

I'm not saying that by the way. I just don't like Alex Morgan doing racist celebrations. She should be drowned in tea. 

Anyway, will this team be able to beat the FC Dallas u15s team if they played again?

[Eco]

47 minutes ago, 6666 said:

So you're saying Americans don't know how to act when it comes to world sports...?

I'm not saying that by the way. I just don't like Alex Morgan doing racist celebrations. She should be drowned in tea. 

Ha - no. I don't think it's that, just stating American sports for two reasons, @Dr. Gonzo and I both live here, so we have a better 'connection' with American sports. Quite honestly, after watching some almost every match of the last World Cup, you see a lot of similar celebrations. 

And FFS, it's tea. If tea is racist I give up on society. 

[Spike]

Ha - if bannanas are racist, I give up on society.

You can reduce anything like that and that marginalises how people feel. Nobody can arbitrate how other's feel, no? Otherwise who is to say what is or what isn't. People can't get their heads around it but that is how the world is, I can say 'wog' to my Italian-Australian friend in jest, but the word has a different meaning the UK; much like how 'negrito' isn't an offensive term in many Latin cultures but it sure as hell would be in the USA. It's just relative offending, and everyone gets offended. Some more easily than others. Dani Alves eats the bannana in defiance, someone like Sterling complains on Twitter, different' people same issue.

As a tea drinker myself she can get fucked though.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 minutes ago, Eco said:

Ha - no. I don't think it's that, just stating American sports for two reasons, @Dr. Gonzo and I both live here, so we have a better 'connection' with American sports. Quite honestly, after watching some almost every match of the last World Cup, you see a lot of similar celebrations. 

And FFS, it's tea. If tea is racist I give up on society. 

We're English too, I'm pretty sure we're not a race. Since that's a nationality and not a race. Anglo-Saxon isn't even our race, since that's an ethnicity not a race... and also not every English person is an Anglo-Saxon. I don't even know if I think Morgan's celebration was "mean spirited," and if it was then she's fucking stupid because why would you go out of your way to insult the people that invented the fucking sport that made you famous ; although given the opposition, I'm not surprised she's drawn criticism. Like @6666 said, what if she'd just scored on China and then celebrated by eating with chopsticks? Or what if Harry Kane had scores against the US team and pretends to munch down a Big Mac? She may have just been trying to have a laugh, but I also think she probably should have considered she'd some flak for it considering who her opponents were. And then for Rapinoe to act indignant about people giving her flak for it was a bit weird... considering the circumstances, it's easy to see why someone might have felt Morgan was being an arrogant little shit about scoring against England and doing that, so for Rapinoe to say "wah wah wah, it's the world cup what do you expect us to do?" my response would be "not be a bunch of twats at a World Cup?"

After all, they're representing America on the world stage. And it's a time where the international view of the United States is not that flattering.

As for the American sport culture, I'm not so sure I've really noticed that in many sports. Although I find baseball completely unwatchable, so I completely ignore that. And I've never really watched an interview for basketball, because I only really like the NBA in the playoffs... and even then, only late on in the matches. And for the NFL, I've found that they're about the same with their interviews as you'd expect from the Premier League. Where most of the time, they all seem fairly humble and down to earth (granted, I was a San Diego Chargers fan before they left - and they've historically always been shite so they've probably got to be humble) - and players would make national headlines if they said arrogant shite. And the only players I can really think of that are consistently like that are Tom Brady (reportedly a massive cunt), Antonio Brown (definitely a massive cunt), Richard Sherman (supposed to be a cunt to play against, but an excellent teammate, so he's still probably a cunt - it's just nice when you've got a cunt like that on your side), and Gronk (retired, but probably a cunt). I'm also fairly fucking new to the sport though so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert.

And I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on American sport culture, I'm a stranger in a strange land here and my insight/observations are all going to be fairly recent and probably not anywhere near as active as they'd be with an actual American who is 100% more familiar with American sports than me. So maybe the US womens team's arrogance really isn't all that arrogant, it's just how they've been brought up and how they think they're supposed to act. But it does rub me the wrong way, because like I'd said earlier... you don't really see the other big footballing nations in the World Cup act like this.

And it's just such a contrast to how the US men's team acts... which begs the question, if the US team was actually a routine contender for the World Cup... would they act in the same way?

[Spike]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We're English too, I'm pretty sure we're not a race. Since that's a nationality and not a race. Anglo-Saxon isn't even our race, since that's an ethnicity not a race... and also not every English person is an Anglo-Saxon.

That is absolute nonsense.The definitions of race are: 

a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
a group or set of people or things with a common feature or features.
a population within a species that is distinct in some way, especially a subspecies.
a group of people descended from a common ancestor.

 

If you were to break it down it'd be:
Humans ->Caucasoids-> Indo-Europeans->Europeans->Western-Europeans->British->English

For you it'd be branched off into Persian and English as you are from a distinct mulitcultral family background, wheras for me it'd branch off into Australian. For someone like @Eco it'd be more complex because while American culture is an amalgation of various distinct European cultures (mainly British given the colonisation and language), he is has close Russian heritage as well.

 

I have more in common with a European than an East-Asian, but I have more in common with England than I do France. Race and ethnicity isn't bound by genetic ties strictly, though they are important and are often the deciding factor. I am racially English but I am not culturally English, though my culture is an evolution of 18th century English culture.

 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

That is absolute nonsense.The definitions of race are: 

a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
a group or set of people or things with a common feature or features.
a population within a species that is distinct in some way, especially a subspecies.
a group of people descended from a common ancestor.

 

If you were to break it down it'd be:
Humans ->Caucasoids-> Indo-Europeans->Europeans->Western-Europeans->British->English

For you it'd be branched off into Persian and English as you are from a distinct mulitcultral family background, wheras for me it'd branch off into Australian. For someone like @Eco it'd be more complex because while American culture is an amalgation of various distinct European cultures (mainly British given the colonisation and language), he is has close Russian heritage as well.

 

I have more in common with a European than an East-Asian, but I have more in common with England than I do France. Race and ethnicity isn't bound by genetic ties strictly, though they are important and are often the deciding factor. I am racially English but I am not culturally English, though my culture is an evolution of 18th century English culture.

 

 

 

That's too complex, can we just do it the old fashioned way

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's too complex, can we just do it the old fashioned way

No.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

No.

Well then since I'm not a genealogist (or, said another way - speaking non-technically), I'll just use an Oxford dictionary definition (although there's a fucking shitload of definitions for race):
 

Quote

 

1.5 (in non-technical use) each of the major divisions of living creatures.

‘a member of the human race’

‘the race of birds’

 

We are all the same race

[Spike]

26 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well then since I'm not a genealogist (or, said another way - speaking non-technically), I'll just use an Oxford dictionary definition (although there's a fucking shitload of definitions for race):
 

We are all the same race

Not really. We should all be socially equal, but we aren't genetically. Well that is a little clumsy but for instance in a rudimentary society I feel genetically disadvantaged in the savannah as opposed to the winterlands, and for other's it'd be opposite. 

[6666]

I didn't mind Alex Morgan's twerking celebration. That was all right.

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Spike said:

Not really. We should all be socially equal, but we aren't genetically. Well that is a little clumsy but for instance in a rudimentary society I feel genetically disadvantaged in the savannah as opposed to the winterlands, and for other's it'd be opposite. 

Well using that definition, we're all the same race if we're all humans. But there's about a billion definitions of race.

[Spike]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well using that definition, we're all the same race if we're all humans. But there's about a billion definitions of race.

I'll define you with a brick to the head.