Wrestling

[Devil-Dick Willie]

48 minutes ago, 6666 said:

They've really not done a good job of building other people up as big deals. That's why I can react to Logan Paul getting a title shot, after a lowercard feud with The Miz, and say "Yeah, why not?".

Beating the miz on PPV is better than Daniel Bryan losing to Jericho twice, losing to some kid, then being pushed to the final (and will likely win) the AEW world title tournament. 

[JoshBRFC+]

I watched the podcast before this was announced, it was decent to be fair. 

[6666]

22 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Beating the miz on PPV is better than Daniel Bryan losing to Jericho twice, losing to some kid, then being pushed to the final (and will likely win) the AEW world title tournament. 

Daniel Bryan has a lot of credit in the bank though. He's solidified as a main eventer.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

2 hours ago, 6666 said:

Daniel Bryan has a lot of credit in the bank though. He's solidified as a main eventer.

The miz is the only double grand slam winner in history. 

[Gunnersaurus]

On 18/09/2022 at 22:56, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Beating the miz on PPV is better than Daniel Bryan losing to Jericho twice, losing to some kid, then being pushed to the final (and will likely win) the AEW world title tournament. 

I'm a couple of weeks behind so no spoilers but I dont think it was really planned. They weren't preparing for both omega and punk to get suspended. Giving it to mjf would take away his credibility because punk was stripped. (Would he really want to win his first title under those circumstances)Moxley has already had two title reigns , Jericho isn't title material anymore I dont think, hangman was getting some booes because of what happened so  I dont think they have much else to go with. To be fair danielson is still a great wrestler. It was necessary for him to loose to Garcia I think because I think he has amazing potential. I'm not saying aew dont have talent because I think they do but there was a lot of circumstances  that all happened at the same time and so he is probably the best option at the moment. Also he has already proven himself so a title run that wasn't planned wont ruin his legacy. 

[Gunnersaurus]

10 hours ago, 6666 said:

Daniel Bryan has a lot of credit in the bank though. He's solidified as a main eventer.

Hes probably aews biggest acquisition considering he main evented the previous wrestlemania and wwe wanted to keep him. Getting punk was massive but he hadn't wrestled for 7 years. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

19 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

I'm a couple of weeks behind so no spoilers but I dont think it was really planned. They weren't preparing for both omega and punk to get suspended. Giving it to mjf would take away his credibility because punk was stripped. (Would he really want to win his first title under those circumstances)Moxley has already had two title reigns , Jericho isn't title material anymore I dont think, hangman was getting some booes because of what happened so  I dont think they have much else to go with. To be fair danielson is still a great wrestler. It was necessary for him to loose to Garcia I think because I think he has amazing potential. I'm not saying aew dont have talent because I think they do but there was a lot of circumstances  that all happened at the same time and so he is probably the best option at the moment. Also he has already proven himself so a title run that wasn't planned wont ruin his legacy. 

But you don't misuse a guy like that getting him pinned in a huge junk multi man match, then lose to daniel garcia, then lose to Jericho on PPV. No one comes out of a jericho feud looking good anymore haha win or lose. 

[Gunnersaurus]

1 minute ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

But you don't misuse a guy like that getting him pinned in a huge junk multi man match, then lose to daniel garcia, then lose to Jericho on PPV. No one comes out of a jericho feud looking good anymore haha win or lose. 

I dont think he needed to be the one to pass out at double or nothing. I think the loss to Garcia was important for what seems a likely face turn and him loosing to Jericho with jericho cheating played a major part as well so I can see why they did that. Out of interest mate I dont really understand why you watch or follow aew you dont seem to like it that much. Same for @The Palace Fan

[Devil-Dick Willie]

So you sacrifice your number 2 or 3 guy 3 matches in a row to turn an underneath guy face? Cool. 

Now look where it's got them. He'll be world champion soon and coming off the back of 3 major Ls. In the company where 'wins and losses matter' lol. 

They do all the dumb shit WWE do and the fans ignore it. Stories that never get an ending and go nowhere and just disappear? Often. 
Bloated roster where almost no one feels important? Yep. 
Not releasing guys who want out? Yep. 
wins and losses and the near past doesn't matter at all on the current card? Ya. 

[Dave]

18 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

So you sacrifice your number 2 or 3 guy 3 matches in a row to turn an underneath guy face? Cool. 

Now look where it's got them. He'll be world champion soon and coming off the back of 3 major Ls. In the company where 'wins and losses matter' lol. 

They do all the dumb shit WWE do and the fans ignore it. Stories that never get an ending and go nowhere and just disappear? Often. 
Bloated roster where almost no one feels important? Yep. 
Not releasing guys who want out? Yep. 
wins and losses and the near past doesn't matter at all on the current card? Ya. 

I think the good will people had to AEW has largely expired now.

My Facebook page used to be littered with paid adds that were posts from AEW fans shilling about how great Tony Khan is and how everything he did was genius. That's all largely gone now. Twitter and Reddit was a massive circle jerk about how great AEW is and that narrative has changed. The fake journalists have stopped presenting AEW as All Friends Wrestling and were beginning to hear about problems that were never previously reported.

All it took was for the evil Vince McHitler to retire for the fickle nature of the hardcore fans to show.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

34 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

I think the good will people had to AEW has largely expired now.

My Facebook page used to be littered with paid adds that were posts from AEW fans shilling about how great Tony Khan is and how everything he did was genius. That's all largely gone now. Twitter and Reddit was a massive circle jerk about how great AEW is and that narrative has changed. The fake journalists have stopped presenting AEW as All Friends Wrestling and were beginning to hear about problems that were never previously reported.

All it took was for the evil Vince McHitler to retire for the fickle nature of the hardcore fans to show.

Honestly, even at its peak, AEW was worse than 2016-18 smackdown. That show in terms of recent wrestling is goated.

AJ styles, Roman Reigns, John cena at the top of the card. 
Dean Ambrose, KO, Jericho all either at the card top or upper midcard. 
Upper midcard built around Ziggler, Miz, Nakamura. 
Sami Zayn when he could do moves, Cesaro, Rusev/English New day and Usos as the mid card. 

Fuck me we were spoiled and didn't know it. 

[Gunnersaurus]

51 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

So you sacrifice your number 2 or 3 guy 3 matches in a row to turn an underneath guy face? Cool. 

Now look where it's got them. He'll be world champion soon and coming off the back of 3 major Ls. In the company where 'wins and losses matter' lol. 

They do all the dumb shit WWE do and the fans ignore it. Stories that never get an ending and go nowhere and just disappear? Often. 
Bloated roster where almost no one feels important? Yep. 
Not releasing guys who want out? Yep. 
wins and losses and the near past doesn't matter at all on the current card? Ya. 

I said I didn't think he should have lost 3 matches. But two was necessary and I doubt danielson would have done it if he wasn't ok with it. 

Also they cant just let guys go when they want if they will go to wwe. There was reports that bryan cage could go to wwe so that's why they wont release him

Again and same to you @The Palace Fan why watch it? All you both ever do is complain about it.

I'm not saying aew is perfect.  I think it's better than it was when it started but not as good as it was last year. One thing I have noticed is the politics sneaking in. At the beginning the young bucks lost to private party and SCU were the first tag tag team champions. Jericho was the first aew champion and it felt like politics weren't playing a major role. Then the bucks won the tag titles and omega won the championship but it still felt ok because they had a high status.

However then Cody won 3 tnt titles, young bucks became first two time champions even though FTR were really over,  then them and omega were the first trios champions and it now it feels like politics plays a major role. Also when aew began it felt like they were getting the best out of what they had. Now they have a stronger roster and it doesn't feel like they are getting the most out of it. I do think they have improved their womens division though considerably.

That being said I still find it very enjoyable. Its edgy, the wrestling is good so I still enjoy it. 

[6666]

5 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

But you don't misuse a guy like that getting him pinned in a huge junk multi man match, then lose to daniel garcia, then lose to Jericho on PPV. No one comes out of a jericho feud looking good anymore haha win or lose. 

I agree that they've not booked him well ever since they put him in a group but he's pretty bulletproof. There aren't enough over main event talents for him to fade out from that position either. Should've done better with him but he's not hurt by it.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

9 hours ago, 6666 said:

I agree that they've not booked him well ever since they put him in a group but he's pretty bulletproof. There aren't enough over main event talents for him to fade out from that position either. Should've done better with him but he's not hurt by it.

No one should be getting jammed as world champion after losing 3 matches in a row. 

[Gunnersaurus]

It seems unthinkable to turn mjf face but I think they might have to. He gets louder cheers than the top faces in aew. I have no doubt he will be able to be a great face. 

[6666]

42 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

It seems unthinkable to turn mjf face but I think they might have to. He gets louder cheers than the top faces in aew. I have no doubt he will be able to be a great face. 

Babyface MJF v. Heel CM Punk.

Goofball gang in the bin.

This is what's best for business. 

[Gunnersaurus]

3 hours ago, 6666 said:

Babyface MJF v. Heel CM Punk.

Goofball gang in the bin.

This is what's best for business. 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. If you are saying it would be goofy I don't think that is true. Mjf only needs to change a few things to be a face. All he has to do is stop insulting the audience and not cheat all the time. He can even keep the I'm better than you catchphrase. There have been times before when heels have been forced to turn face. When jericho joined wwe they weren't going to turn him face but he was so popular they did. The rock was heavily cheered as a heel in the 90s(Although the plan was to turn him face after a good heel run but then cheers weren't planned).

Back to your other point. A agree danielson legacy is pretty solid. I mean hes short and doesn't look like a wwe wrestler but they had to change the main event of wrestlemania because he was so popular. I know it was also because they fans hated Batista winning the rumble but Daniel bryan was incredible popular at the time.

So I don't think his legacy will be damaged at all by loosing 3 matches and getting a title win is he does.

My worry is that mjf wins it with his chip after the match. I don't have an issue with that in terms or storytelling. I think it's good storytelling but its wwe storytelling with the money in the bank. Now copying something good is fine but I think it could damage the are brand.

As for your other point I dont think aew does lack main event or aew championship talent. I mean you have moxley, punk, omega, page, danielson, mjf who are all championship material. Then you have darby Allen who could be a plucky underdog champion with a bit or a build up in a year or so(if they take him away from sting) then you have wardlow who they seem to be building up( he's not my kind of thing but no doubt he will be the champion one day) And then maybe in a couple of years you have someone like powerhouse Hobbs.

The reason why I felt they had to go with danielson at the moment I mentioned in an earlier post. If think of they do go with moxley or might have to be done with a heel turn. Not sure if it would work otherwise. They may do that though it is possible. 

[Dave]

On 20/09/2022 at 10:02, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Honestly, even at its peak, AEW was worse than 2016-18 smackdown. That show in terms of recent wrestling is goated.

AJ styles, Roman Reigns, John cena at the top of the card. 
Dean Ambrose, KO, Jericho all either at the card top or upper midcard. 
Upper midcard built around Ziggler, Miz, Nakamura. 
Sami Zayn when he could do moves, Cesaro, Rusev/English New day and Usos as the mid card. 

Fuck me we were spoiled and didn't know it. 

2016 was the last year I really enjoyed. There was so much going on that was good. Brandon Thurston did a good article that showed how WWE pretty much grew in every measurable social media metric going (Google hits, social media interactions etc) then in 2017 Vince went back to his part time champ & Jinder became champion and it all tanked. Can't find the article but these tweets sum it up:

 

 

On 20/09/2022 at 14:14, 6666 said:

I agree that they've not booked him well ever since they put him in a group but he's pretty bulletproof. There aren't enough over main event talents for him to fade out from that position either. Should've done better with him but he's not hurt by it.

Yeah, the praise he gets shows that TK got it right in the sense that Bryan is a rare kettle of fish that can lose frequently but still be over. A bit like Seth Rollins.

[Gunnersaurus]

Aew have been quite good with the wins matter part. And if someone does get a title shot without a lot of wins generally it's an open challenge or the title holder challenges a certain wrestler for some reason so they cover it pretty well. I'm not sure if danielson did loose 3 in a row though. If I remember rightly he was chocked out at double or nothing. Then he was injured for a bit. I think he came back and won then lost lost to Garcia with interference, then beat garcia then lost to jericho who cheated. So there were no single clean losses in there. I might be wrong  on that though 

[6666]

2 hours ago, Gunnersaurus said:

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. If you are saying it would be goofy I don't think that is true. Mjf only needs to change a few things to be a face. All he has to do is stop insulting the audience and not cheat all the time. He can even keep the I'm better than you catchphrase. There have been times before when heels have been forced to turn face. When jericho joined wwe they weren't going to turn him face but he was so popular they did. The rock was heavily cheered as a heel in the 90s(Although the plan was to turn him face after a good heel run but then cheers weren't planned).

I was saying Babyface MJF v. Heel CM Punk would be best for business and I hope they do that.

The "goofball gang in the bin" part was in reference to The Young Bucks, Omega, and Adam Page, and the rest of their friends.

[Gunnersaurus]

21 minutes ago, 6666 said:

I was saying Babyface MJF v. Heel CM Punk would be best for business and I hope they do that.

The "goofball gang in the bin" part was in reference to The Young Bucks, Omega, and Adam Page, and the rest of their friends.

Ow right. Adam page is fine I think. To be fair the bucks are quite popular at the moment along with omega. Got to much power though. Dont think they should of won the trios championship though. For me the problem with kenny omega is the character. Omega still has some brilliant matches. However I've got the impression in japan it is more about the wrestling. Aew is more about the gimmick and the wrestling. I think that is where he struggles at times. I think he would struggle in wwe where it is more gimmick focused from from what I understand. Be good if they can get osprey in full time. I think he's amazing. Not to keen on all that gymnastic diving around for no reason though. Unless its because he's showboating. I like there to be a reason for all the moves in the ring.  

Edited September 21, 2022 by Gunnersaurus

[Gunnersaurus]

I haven't seen grand slam so no spoilers please. However I do know something that happened. I'm not gonna give any spoilers but I am gonna ask, is she good or is she more famous for the other thing? If you've seen it you will know what I am talking about? 

[6666]

5 hours ago, Gunnersaurus said:

I haven't seen grand slam so no spoilers please. However I do know something that happened. I'm not gonna give any spoilers but I am gonna ask, is she good or is she more famous for the other thing? If you've seen it you will know what I am talking about? 

She's okay. People overstate how important or good she was.

She's not the brightest so I'm looking forward to her saying quite dumb things in podcasts and interviews. She will improve the AEW women's division though. Tony might allow some more time for women on the show now.

[Gunnersaurus]

23 minutes ago, 6666 said:

She's okay. People overstate how important or good she was.

She's not the brightest so I'm looking forward to her saying quite dumb things in podcasts and interviews. She will improve the AEW women's division though. Tony might allow some more time for women on the show now.

Tony storm has had a lot of air time but so did thunder rosa, so has brit baker, so did nyla rose. You know as well as anyone wrestling is about who can get the most viewers. I mean I don't like jade cargill in the ring but she looks the part and she is good on the mike so she gets a lot of air time. To be fair to aew they have improved the womens division massively. They still lack wrestlers with great gimmicks apart from a few like brit baker but the wrestling is decent. I watched clash at the castle and I didn't think there was a big difference in the wrestling quality between wwe and aew but wwe definitely gets the gimmicks better. I mean serena deeb is a good wrestler but there is nothing that makes you want watch her or listen to her.  She's like a good singer who just isn't interesting. Also I get the impression wwe has a locker room full of decent womens wrestlers who can wrestle to a good standard. Where as aew only has a few. But they have enough to give it more air time if they can improve the gimmicks 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Gunnersaurus

[Gunnersaurus]

@6666 just realised you meant tony Khan  Yeah I agree there is enough talent to give it more air time  now. I'd like to see a womens tag team championship now. I don't like to many titles in a wrestling organisation though so leave it at that. Personally I would of preferred a womens tag team title before a mens trios title. And instead of the all Atlantic I would of preferred a cruiserweight title . 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Gunnersaurus