[VOTE] Team of the 21st Century - LB - Semi Finals

[Mpache]

5 minutes ago, Stan said:

attack you ffs Brian grow a pair.

You seem to use your bias against Evra to deny he had any kind of quality. All you go on about is 'legs' and something that happened internationally for one tournament.

Your ignorance of his quality is blinded by your bias.

Haven't you said before that you didn't watch Premier League football around the time Evra was at Utd, late 00s etc?

I was about 10 in 2008 (around the time United made those CL runs). I wasn't that young. I wasn't as big a fan in 2008 as I was from 2012-2015 of the PL but I did feel I see enough to judge a player, albeit not in a professional manner as I said the other day. My dad was a massive fan so I would watch games with him from time to time. This is also why I love Riquelme, I would watch Boca games with him in the early 2000's when he was at Boca, I wasn't huge into football in that time but those were early memories of football around 4-6 years old. At 10, I have a better memory. Also have seen a few old games, but this is more World Cup than PL matches as they showed them on TV in Peru at times.

Also, I don't know where you got this "Evra bias" argument from. You do know people are allowed different opinions right? For me he was never world class and his lack of longevity (again, don't know about Monaco) didn't help. I admit he wasn't useless in the late 2000's like he was in this past decade, but there were better left backs for me even at his time.

Also, I don't recall saying that Evra was a crap left back. I think I might have said this in comparison to Alaba but I was a bit rash as I can be. I just don't think he's world class or near it. Said he was overrtated and I also think he was crap more time than he was good, but obviously you can't discount his good years. Just for me, he wasn't world class.

I also whole heartedly think Ferguson made certain players look better than they actually are. Not sure if Evra was one of them but I recall Phil Jones and Antonio Valencia had stellar seasons at the start but after Fergie retired they weren't great afterwards. No coincidence Evra was garbage everywhere else after that but I'm just speculating because he was already on the decline.

Anyways, Filipe Luis beat him who for me also wasn't a top left back so I'm glad I'm not the only one on here who thought Evra was overrated.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Vader said:

I was about 10 in 2008 (around the time United made those CL runs). I wasn't that young. I wasn't as big a fan in 2008 as I was from 2012-2015 of the PL but I did feel I see enough to judge a player, albeit not in a professional manner as I said the other day. My dad was a massive fan so I would watch games with him from time to time. This is also why I love Riquelme, I would watch Boca games with him in the early 2000's when he was at Boca, I wasn't huge into football in that time but those were early memories of football around 4-6 years old. At 10, I have a better memory. Also have seen a few old games, but this is more World Cup than PL matches as they showed them on TV in Peru at times.

Also, I don't know where you got this "Evra bias" argument from. You do know people are allowed different opinions right? For me he was never world class and his lack of longevity (again, don't know about Monaco) didn't help. I admit he wasn't useless in the late 2000's like he was in this past decade, but there were better left backs for me even at his time.

Also, I don't recall saying that Evra was a crap left back. I think I might have said this in comparison to Alaba but I was a bit rash as I can be. I just don't think he's world class or near it. Said he was overrtated and I also think he was crap more time than he was good, but obviously you can't discount his good years. Just for me, he wasn't world class.

I also whole heartedly think Ferguson made certain players look better than they actually are. Not sure if Evra was one of them but I recall Phil Jones and Antonio Valencia had stellar seasons at the start but after Fergie retired they weren't great afterwards. No coincidence Evra was garbage everywhere else after that but I'm just speculating because he was already on the decline.

Anyways, Filipe Luis beat him who for me also wasn't a top left back so I'm glad I'm not the only one on here who thought Evra was overrated.

 

9 hours ago, Vader said:

Mate, Evra has been garbage the entirety of this decade (or now the last one). From 2000-2010 he had some legs to stand on, but 2010-2020 he was one of the most overrated Left backs I've seen. So much there was a point Fabio was getting more minutes than him iirc 

 

44 minutes ago, Vader said:

@Dr. Gonzo

Looks like my memory served me right.

Obviously this is secondary, but to be honest as a player I didn't like him too much. Was OK at the start for United, crap later on and then crap again at Juve and Marseille.

 

 

Please also bear in mind that I'm also not saying he was world class. I agree he wasn't, at least not for an extended period of time. But I don't think you give him enough credit for that successful period when he joined Utd til about 2010/11. He was one of the best in the league at that time. 

 

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

 

 

 

 

Please also bear in mind that I'm also not saying he was world class. I agree he wasn't, at least not for an extended period of time. But I don't think you give him enough credit for that successful period when he joined Utd til about 2010/11. He was one of the best in the league at that time. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Vader said:

Also, I don't recall saying that Evra was a crap left back. I think I might have said this in comparison to Alaba but I was a bit rash as I can be. I just don't think he's world class or near it. Said he was overrtated and I also think he was crap more time than he was good, but obviously you can't discount his good years. Just for me, he wasn't world class.

Quote better next time  

Agree to disagree. Let's leave it at a fair enough for both sides.

[DeadLinesman]

1 hour ago, Vader said:

Oh yay the "you've never seen the player" card when you know you've lost the argument

You can’t really make an argument in the first place when you’ve never seen anyone play though can you? Evra wouldn’t have been left back in various title winning United sides if he was overrated. It’s an absolutely ludicrous suggestion. He joined in 2006, you were 8 years old by your own admission. Nobody can comment on footballers before they’re mature enough to sit, watch games and make an informed decision/conclusion.

[DeadLinesman]

Oh and Phil Jones has never had a stellar season in his entire career. He looked promising at Blackburn, that’s literally it. Valencia at a push has had a decent season or two, much like Young, Fletcher, those types of players who Ferguson grasped every last ounce of potential out of. You cannot categorise these players with Evra.  

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

Evra wouldn’t have been left back in various title winning United sides if he was overrated. It’s an absolutely ludicrous suggestion. 

I'm not gonna carry this on, and I suggest you don't either but this isn't a good argument. Evra was part of 2 (iirc) Juventus title winning sides including one that reached the Champions League final, and he was utterly garbage. Just because he plays for a team that wins several titles, doesn't mean that he's a great player. There's loads of examples throughout history.

I've already said he had some arguments in the past, but he was never a top left back for me.

[DeadLinesman]

Just now, Vader said:

I'm not gonna carry this on, and I suggest you don't either but this isn't a good argument. Evra was part of 2 (iirc) Juventus title winning sides including one that reached the Champions League final, and he was utterly garbage. Just because he plays for a team that wins several titles, doesn't mean that he's a great player. There's loads of examples throughout history.

I've already said he had some arguments in the past, but he was never a top left back for me.

Don’t ‘suggest’ anything to me ffs. Christ your condescending.

[Mpache]

2 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Oh and Phil Jones has never had a stellar season in his entire career. He looked promising at Blackburn, that’s literally it. Valencia at a push has had a decent season or two, much like Young, Fletcher, those types of players who Ferguson grasped every last ounce of potential out of. You cannot categorise these players with Evra.  

To be fair, Valencia was a good player as he has shown before with Ecuador on several occasions. He's talented and not one dimensional as he looked at United later on. I'm convinced Ferguson got the best out of him. That said, I'm not convinced he was ever a United calibre player for the club they're expected to be. Moyes and Van Gaal weren't the managers for him.

[Mpache]

3 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Don’t ‘suggest’ anything to me ffs. Christ your condescending.

[DeadLinesman]

Brilliant comeback. For someone who apparently doesn’t understand English humour, you sure grasp it when you want to.

[Mpache]

2 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Brilliant comeback. For someone who apparently doesn’t understand English humour, you sure grasp it when you want to.

Nah I just woke up on the right side of the bed today  

[Stan]

11 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Brilliant comeback. For someone who apparently doesn’t understand English humour, you sure grasp it when you want to.

It's the kind of comment someone would make when they've lost an argument... 

[Harry]

21 minutes ago, Vader said:

I'm not gonna carry this on, and I suggest you don't either but this isn't a good argument. Evra was part of 2 (iirc) Juventus title winning sides including one that reached the Champions League final, and he was utterly garbage. Just because he plays for a team that wins several titles, doesn't mean that he's a great player. There's loads of examples throughout history.

I've already said he had some arguments in the past, but he was never a top left back for me.

He was a very effective left back in the period Ronaldo was at United, more effective in attack than Ashley Cole.

In that period he was probably second best in the league in the position.

[DeadLinesman]

32 minutes ago, Stan said:

It's the kind of comment someone would make when they've lost an argument... 

I suggest you shut up.

[Fusion]

Dunno what's funnier. Evra that has never been a top player (including 2007-2008) or that Filipe Luis was never a top player. I think 2nd is funnier. It's fine tho, we have world class Ospina sitting as the #2 top goalkeeper.

[Mpache]

Sorry to drag this on longer, but Kel's post on Evra pretty much sums up my thoughts on him.

Good player in his prime, but never world class or near it and no longevity. 

 

[Stan]

Oh okay. That's final then. Kel's opinion is superior to all ours I take it. 

[Mpache]

Just now, Stan said:

Oh okay. That's final then. Kel's opinion is superior to all ours I take it. 

Why do you have to be so extreme?

I just brought it up to defend my image a tad. We all think differently. 

I get my tone isn't the best but fuck me, you make it sound like I just said Turk and Caicos are better than Germany.

[Stan]

11 minutes ago, Vader said:

Why do you have to be so extreme?

 

Cos you make it sound like your opinion is vindicated just because someone else thinks it. 

You seem obsessed with this 'world class' tag.

I've literally not seen one person on here state he is world class. 

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

Cos you make it sound like your opinion is vindicated just because someone else thinks it. 

You seem obsessed with this 'world class' tag.

I've literally not seen one person on here state he is world class. 

Again, you have a problem with my manner of posting, PM me and we can resolve it like civilized adults.

I am open to critiques, if you actually have any and aren't just annoyed at my opinion.

[Stan]

Just now, Vader said:

Again, you have a problem with my manner of posting, PM me and we can resolve it like civilized adults.

I am open to critiques, if you actually have any and aren't just annoyed at my opinion.

Can discuss it here thanks. No need to PM.

I'll state again - no-one here stated he was 'world class' but you seem to think we all think he is. And that's the crux of your argument. 

[Mpache]

Just now, Stan said:

Can discuss it here thanks. No need to PM.

I'll state again - no-one here stated he was 'world class' but you seem to think we all think he is. And that's the crux of your argument. 

Ok, so why the critiques, the extremity, the assumptions and misinterpretation? Is there any reason at all for that?

Question for Phil as well. It almost feels agenda-like.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Vader said:

Ok, so why the critiques, the extremity, the assumptions and misinterpretation? Is there any reason at all for that?

Question for Phil as well. It almost feels agenda-like.

What extremity, assumptions and misinterpretation ? 

 

[Mpache]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

What extremity, assumptions and misinterpretation ? 

 

Look back at your comments.

I can't leave an unpopular opinion (truthfully not even that) without being told I have never seen said thing or I'm arguing for arguing sake

Can't make a joke without being told that I was being serious.

Personally I want to hear an actual critique on how to improve or for people to move on. I am actually working on myself since a few months ago, and any critique is welcome.

[RandoEFC+]

5 hours ago, Vader said:

 

I get my tone isn't the best but fuck me, you make it sound like I just said Turk and Caicos are better than Germany.

I dont know who the left back for Turk and Caicos is but he's probably better than Philipp Lahm. And therefore Turk and Caicos probably are actually better than Germany seeing as Lahm is Germany's best ever player apparently.

Deadly serious .