Arsenal Discussion

[SirBalon]

3 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Sirbalon I have to ask you. You say about Arsenal needing to go back to the glory days. But when were these glory days? We never got past the quarter finals of the European cup before Wenger was here. You keep saying about arsenals decline but we are still better than better than before wenger was here. I'm Wenger out myself but you seem to refer to glory days that never existed. Not a critism mate. Just a question

What 'Glory Days'?

When did I say let's go back to anything of the sort?

I've spoken about local identity, but I've spoken about that particular subject as a general blanket theme for all and not just Arsenal.  The fact Arsenal have dominated my words when writing about this is because I support them, I was born in the area and I was brought up amongst that and observed the last remains of something that was different.  But you can ignore all of that because that's just melancholy and nostalgia coming from my finger tapping...  Doesn't mean I can't do it though and display my sentiments.

Arsenal have observed victorious ERAS and Wenger's is one of those and nothing more.  His aren't worth more than the others because the other had different battles on their hands to lift the club from yet another dry period.  Wenger is extremely important in Arsenal's history and I've never denied that but he's no more important than the past managers and owners the club has had throughout history.  If you believe he is the be all and end all of Arsenal then you're stupid...  I don't want to think you're stupid.  Just that you haven't studied enough of the history of this club maybe.  Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Pretty sure he's our most successful ever manager... To @Gunnersauraus's point, people are pretending that we used to be something that we weren't before Wenger. Must be people listening to the morons that appear on ArsenalFanTV or "WOBs" on Twitter.

Nothing wrong with wanting Wenger replaced but at least come to the table with statements that hold true. Facts are that the 20 years under Wenger have been better than the 20 years before him. Going forward we may need someone new with new ideas and that's where the debate needs to be when discussing a new manager rather than pointing to the past and suggesting Wenger's not done better than those before him as that is quite easily incorrect.

I think a lot of football fans see things black and white. Your either very good or very bad. For me Arsenal are stagnant and change is needed. I think there are coaches out there who could improve us. But I think to be a genuine champions league contender. To win premier leagues will be very hard for any manager. Take klopp for example. He was regarded as one of the best coaches in the world and all he has done so far is what wenger does every season apart from last. Liverpool have no chance of winning the league or champions league

Edited November 1, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

What 'Glory Days'?

When did I say let's go back to anything of the sort?

I've spoken about local identity, but I've spoken about that particular subject as a general blanket theme for all and not just Arsenal.  The fact Arsenal have dominated my words when writing about this is because I support them, I was born in the area and I was brought up amongst that and observed the last remains of something that was different.  But you can ignore all of that because that's just melancholy and nostalgia coming from my finger tapping...  Doesn't mean I can't do it though and display my sentiments.

Arsenal have observed victorious ERAS and Wenger's is one of those and nothing more.  His aren't worth more than the others because the other had different battles on their hands to lift the club from yet another dry period.  Wenger is extremely important in Arsenal's history and I've never denied that but he's no more important than the past managers and owners the club has had throughout history.  If you believe he is the be all and end all of Arsenal then you're stupid...  I don't want to think you're stupid.  Just that you haven't studied enough of the history of this club maybe.  Maybe I'm wrong though.

I have no idea what that has to do with my point. You have said arsenal can be great again which suggests arsenal were once a great club. For some reason you don't take critism very well and get very defensive when people don't agree with you

[Guest]

1 hour ago, VanPaddy said:

Arsenal won a European cup with Graham it might of been the Cup winners Cup  but Wenger has taken Arsenal on to 2 finals Uefa Cup and Champions League but they lost.   The thing is,  Arsenal are a big club domestically but small with their European Success only the name Arsenal is big abroad through marketing and what the global branding brings from the Premiership.   I think a lot of people miss the feel of a big family at Arsenal like it was at the glory days at highbury.  Now I am not sure what there is now to look forward to go to the games, Arsenal are even more predictable and boring now in the last couple of years then they were with Graham because he had a plan how to win games.     The whole club top to bottom now is a joke in this modern world with all this finance in the club sitting around and still they cannot address any of the obvious issues, it really is making people turn their back on the club and maybe football itself as the fan is getting mugged off. 

Graham did well. He was a great manager. But most of our titles were won in the thirties and fifties. Those were are glory days. We've won 3 fa cups in 4 years. Wenger is up against clubs spending huge amounts of money. If it wasn't for that he would have won more. I really can't think of many managers that could get us to the level some fans want.  We would be overachieving to win the league.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Guest

[Panna King]

11 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Graham did well. He was a great manager. But most of our titles were won in the thirties and fifties. Those were are glory days. We've won 3 fa cups in 4 years. Wenger is up against clubs spending huge amounts of money. If it wasn't for that he would have won more. I really can't think of many managers that could get us to the level some fans want.  We would be overachieving to win the league.

There are teams around Europe like Ath Madrid, Dortmund who dont have half the funds Arsenal have and always able to compete in Europe, so i think that about Arsenal is a bit of a miff.  Arsenal have just carried out their dealings extremely poorly which is their own fault, it really has cost the club and also in the future.

Edited November 1, 2017 by VanPaddy

[SirBalon]

42 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I have no idea what that has to do with my point. You have said arsenal can be great again which suggests arsenal were once a great club. For some reason you don't take critism very well and get very defensive when people don't agree with you

You’ve just gone on to say that the glory days were decades ago and yet go onto laud Wenger as some sort of messiah.

Each era has its obstacles. But what do you know about that when all you seem to have done is gone through the numbers with the dates while reading a headline or two. 

Not defensive at all... Lived it mate!

Where are you from and how many games have you been to?

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, VanPaddy said:

There are teams around Europe like Ath Madrid, Dortmund who dont have half the funds Arsenal have and always able to compete in Europe, so i think that about Arsenal is a bit of a miff.  Arsenal have just carried out their dealings extremely poorly which is their own fault, it really has cost the club and also in the future.

Simione is possibly the best manager in the world. He is maybe the one manager who could win the leagie with.I don't know what Dortmund spend but they have a 80 thousand seater stadium. I doubt their poor.  Also they aren't compeating in Europe. They are no where near winning it they are not contenders. Also Klopp managed Dortmund and he hasn't done anything at Liverpool. It's not as simple as that. None of those teams have won it. Like I said there are managers who could make us better. But I doubt they get us to the level some want.

[Panna King]

3 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Simione is possibly the best manager in the world. He is maybe the one manager who could win the leagie with.I don't know what Dortmund spend but they have a 80 thousand seater stadium. I doubt their poor.  Also they aren't compeating in Europe. They are no where near winning it they are not contenders. Also Klopp managed Dortmund and he hasn't done anything at Liverpool. It's not as simple as that. None of those teams have won it. Like I said there are managers who could make us better. But I doubt they get us to the level some want.

Dortmund were nearly out of business a few years ago even with their huge stadium. A team like Arsenal who were in the champions league for 18 years running but achieved nothing at all.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, VanPaddy said:

Dortmund were nearly out of business a few years ago even with their huge stadium. A team like Arsenal who were in the champions league for 18 years running but achieved nothing at all.

Look at klopp. Made Dortmund great. Came to Liverpool has done nothing. It's not just the manager it is other things. All English clubs have spent a lot and done nothing in europe

A simple question. What level do you feel arsenal should be at. And what manager do you think could get us there?

Edited November 1, 2017 by Guest

[Panna King]

6 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Look at klopp. Made Dortmund great. Came to Liverpool has done nothing. It's not just the manager it is other things.

A simple question. What level do you feel arsenal should be at. And what manager do you think could get us there?

Well i think Arsenal should be at a level Chelsea should be at now, Arsenal have the funds, london helps also as a location to attract players. So Arsenal should be at least challenging in the league and also doing so much more in Europe.   Again with the Salary Wenger is on around 10 million pounds a year, they should be able to attract nearly 95% of any coach.  

Edited November 1, 2017 by VanPaddy

[Panna King]

6 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Look at klopp. Made Dortmund great. Came to Liverpool has done nothing. It's not just the manager it is other things.

A simple question. What level do you feel arsenal should be at. And what manager do you think could get us there?

Klopp didnt make Dortmund great, they were also great in the past.  He just built a youthful team with high pressing football which was good to watch.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, VanPaddy said:

Klopp didnt make Dortmund great, they were also great in the past.  He just built a youthful team with high pressing football which was good to watch.

That proves my point. It's not just the manager

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, VanPaddy said:

Well i think Arsenal should be at a level Chelsea should be at now, Arsenal have the funds, london helps also as a location to attract players. So Arsenal should be at least challenging in the league and also doing so much more in Europe.   Again with the Salary Wenger is on around 10 million pounds a year, they should be able to attract nearly 95% of any coach.  

I kind of agree. In terms of finances we can compete with Chelsea. But at the same time so should Liverpool and spurs. The bourd has to take a lot of responsibilty as well though

Edited November 1, 2017 by Guest

[Panna King]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

That proves my point. It's not just the manager

In Arsenals case it has been the manager as well part of the problem, he has far too much power around the club.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, VanPaddy said:

In Arsenals case it has been the manager as well part of the problem, he has far too much power around the club.

True but we also have one of the worst owners in the premier league. Like i said klopp was regarded as one of the best managers in the world and he hasn't done anything yet at Liverpool. Just because certain clubs in europe are spending less doesn't mean that the managers are much better.I don't think there are that many managers who are doing much more than what you would expect with their finances. Like I said I'm 100% for change at Arsenal. But we have to be realistic. It will be very hard to compeate with some clubs no matter who is charge.  We have very rich owners but they don't invest. So whoever comes in is going to be relying on profit

Edited November 1, 2017 by Guest

[bozziovai]

12 hours ago, 6666 said:

Pretty sure he's our most successful ever manager... To @Gunnersauraus's point, people are pretending that we used to be something that we weren't before Wenger. Must be people listening to the morons that appear on ArsenalFanTV or "WOBs" on Twitter.

Nothing wrong with wanting Wenger replaced but at least come to the table with statements that hold true. Facts are that the 20 years under Wenger have been better than the 20 years before him. Going forward we may need someone new with new ideas and that's where the debate needs to be when discussing a new manager rather than pointing to the past and suggesting Wenger's not done better than those before him as that is quite easily incorrect.

that's the problem.    coz arsenal fans always think about the past, the era before Wenger.      The numbers of years in service to trophy ratio is very unbalanced - that's a fact.   for 21 odd years, he only won the EPL 3 times.     Yes, he might have the record for FA Cup trophies, but to be honest, the FA Cup isn't that big of a prize and so is his Community Shield ( a useless trophy ) success.

look, arsenal can afford to buy players and they have a big enough name to attract good managers, sadly, it's always back-to-the-future for you people.

[SirBalon]

37 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

that's the problem.    coz arsenal fans always think about the past, the era before Wenger.      The numbers of years in service to trophy ratio is very unbalanced - that's a fact.   for 21 odd years, he only won the EPL 3 times.     Yes, he might have the record for FA Cup trophies, but to be honest, the FA Cup isn't that big of a prize and so is his Community Shield ( a useless trophy ) success.

look, arsenal can afford to buy players and they have a big enough name to attract good managers, sadly, it's always back-to-the-future for you people.

Buying (signing) players is just a part of the situation at Arsenal and not the whole story.  The signing of players was more important about 5 or 6 years back now...  Now there are other issues coupled or better said, mounted on top of that one that has caused the situation of mediocrity we're in.

But in fairness, we are still overachieving in my opinion.  Our squad or team isn't really all that great (media pumping names aside) and we continue to be challenging for those top slots even now (not talking about competing for the title).

Wenger has designed all this for himself...  He has let it happen!  If all Arsenal fans are forced to respect and laud Wenger's era for the good, then the bad must also be included in that and questioned.  Nobody is divine here....  There are no saints to be respected where you need to genuflect as you enter the stadium in the direction of the man at the altar who commands all...  We don't need to cross ourselves or confess our sins at The Emirates.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bozziovai said:

that's the problem.    coz arsenal fans always think about the past, the era before Wenger.      The numbers of years in service to trophy ratio is very unbalanced - that's a fact.   for 21 odd years, he only won the EPL 3 times.     Yes, he might have the record for FA Cup trophies, but to be honest, the FA Cup isn't that big of a prize and so is his Community Shield ( a useless trophy ) success.

look, arsenal can afford to buy players and they have a big enough name to attract good managers, sadly, it's always back-to-the-future for you people.

There is a lot of bollocks in that post

[SirBalon]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

There is a lot of bollocks in that post

Because you don't agree? 

Maybe Bozziovai has big bollocks and it shoes in his posts...  Weight sometimes is hard to drag around between the legs. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Because you don't agree? 

Maybe Bozziovai has big bollocks and it shoes in his posts...  Weight sometimes is hard to drag around between the legs. 

Man city over 200 million spent. Man utd near 200 million spent. Chelsea 180 million I think. Why all these fans think wenger is doing so bad for not being able to compeat with clubs with those finances is beyond me.

[SirBalon]

33 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Man city over 200 million spent. Man utd near 200 million spent. Chelsea 180 million I think. Why all these fans think wenger is doing so bad for not being able to compeat with clubs with those finances is beyond me.

Not now, for sure.  But Wenger could've started to build some years back instead of the "I have faith in this team and can compete for the title" season upon season stuff!  That's BOLLOCKS!   Or bullshit if you prefer...

[Storts]

If you fancy joining a proper club up the Seven Sisters Road let me know

[Panna King]

1 hour ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Man city over 200 million spent. Man utd near 200 million spent. Chelsea 180 million I think. Why all these fans think wenger is doing so bad for not being able to compeat with clubs with those finances is beyond me.

Arsenal have spent money and also have a huge wage bill, they pay even average players like Jenkinson about 60-80k a week!  That is why you cannot get rid of him, the same as Walcott he is on 120k a week!  all underachieving players plus an underachieving manager on around 10 million a year.     Nobody really knows what the whole truth goes on with Arsenal as the whole AGM is a farce, its just a circle of people in it that control things and don't really care what the other shareholders or fans think, as it proved in the last one last week.      The club has been mismanaged on and off the pitch terribly, it has become a laughing stock now for their own fans and visiting fans.  

Edited November 2, 2017 by VanPaddy

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, VanPaddy said:

Arsenal have spent money and also have a huge wage bill, they pay even average players like Jenkinson about 60-80k a week!  That is why you cannot get rid of him, the same as Walcott he is on 120k a week!  all underachieving players plus an underachieving manager on around 10 million a year.     Nobody really knows what the whole truth goes on with Arsenal as the whole AGM is a farce, its just a circle of people in it that control things and don't really care what the other shareholders or fans think, as it proved in the last one last wIeek.      The club has been mismanaged on and off the pitch terribly, it has become a laughing stock now for their own fans and visiting fans.  

Yes we're spending a lot of money. But not what some other clubs are.I think you are missing my point a bit. I want wenger to go 100% I've clearly stated that.  We're stagnant and tactically wenger clearly is out of touch.But i think it will ne hard for us to compeat whoever we have. I'm just trying to have a more balanced view. I agree with you and sirbalon on most things. I just don't think wenger is doing as bad a job as some people make out. Take allegri for example. He was linked with us in the summer. I wanted him and he will improve us I think. But I think wenger would win the league with that juventus side. So I don't think he over achieved there. If arsenal are gonna get to the level some fans want. Simione is the only man I would feel totally confident in

Edited November 2, 2017 by Guest

[Panna King]

9 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Yes we're spending a lot of money. But not what some other clubs. I think you are missing my point a bit. I want wenger to go. I've clearly stated that. But i think it will ne hard for us to compeat whoever we have. I'm just trying to have a more balanced view. I agree with you and sirbalon on most things. I just don't think wenger is doing as bad a job as some people make out. 

Well the frustrating thing most people feel me included, is that in the past Wenger built this skilful powerful side and had a lot of leaders in the team that would stand up, but a lot of those players were already at the club before he arrived  and he did go out and get players similar in the early 2000s.  Some reason now we have moved into this stadium he has completely changed his ways and has tried to invent this new type of team and style, but he goes for these weak technical players who really have no fight in them when they have to roll their sleeves up and get stuck in, again I do not think that has anything to do with money, its Wenger is trying to play this brand of style which clearly does not work the way he wants as in England you need power in midfield, Xhaka, Coquelin and Elneny are not the answer at all.

Edited November 2, 2017 by VanPaddy