George Floyd Death - Derek Chauvin Guilty of Murder

[UNIQUE]

51 minutes ago, Tommy said:

did you make that just for little old me tommy. as you are admin you can ban me for my opinions but you can never stop me from having them mate. i dont agree with the BLM movement who are by definition a terrorist group but i do agree with stand up for racisom. i dont agree with george floyd being a innocent man that had nothing to do with his own death. i do agree that the cop that killed him should get whats comming to him. but i also think you reap what you sow. people that do bad things end up in a bad place. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, UNIQUE said:

no stan i see a violent criminal ( his own making ) killed by a bad policeman ( his own making ) and i see one has died from his life choices and the other going to jail from his life choices. 

Police aren’t meant to just assume someone is violent because they’ve been convicted of a violent crime - he did his time, the penal system is meant to be rehabilitative. They can consider I’m potentially violent, but it’s a factor they have to consider in relation to when the offense was and what they’re actually seeing with their eyes. And the crime that was reported.

Looking at the facts for some of his other arrests, at least one of those arrests indicates why he’d be suspicious of police (he was arrested for not having his ID on him).

What you saw is what everyone else saw, a cop slowly choke a man to death while he wasn’t resisting arrest. The cop deserved to be found guilty for murder based on the evidence we all saw & the law they have there for murder he was found guilty of. No evidence of violence, otherwise there could have been a self-defense claim. But we can plainly see Chauvin wasn’t acting in self defense and at no point do any of the several cops there seem to think he’s a violent threat to them.

We do hear one cop express that Chauvin may be a deadly threat to him.

But I think unless he gets murdered in prison, this guy is getting off easy. And if he ever is a free man again, it’s a moral travesty.

He deserves a life sentence imo. I’m against the courts determining someone should die morally, but a life in captivity is a fitting punishment for rapists and murderers.

[UNIQUE]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Police aren’t meant to just assume someone is violent because they’ve been convicted of a violent crime - he did his time, the penal system is meant to be rehabilitative. They can consider I’m potentially violent, but it’s a factor they have to consider in relation to when the offense was and what they’re actually seeing with their eyes. And the crime that was reported.

Looking at the facts for some of his other arrests, at least one of those arrests indicates why he’d be suspicious of police (he was arrested for not having his ID on him).

What you saw is what everyone else saw, a cop slowly choke a man to death while he wasn’t resisting arrest. The cop deserved to be found guilty for murder based on the evidence we all saw & the law they have there for murder he was found guilty of. No evidence of violence, otherwise there could have been a self-defense claim. But we can plainly see Chauvin wasn’t acting in self defense and at no point do any of the several cops there seem to think he’s a violent threat to them.

We do hear one cop express that Chauvin may be a deadly threat to him.

But I think unless he gets murdered in prison, this guy is getting off easy. And if he ever is a free man again, it’s a moral travesty.

He deserves a life sentence imo. I’m against the courts determining someone should die morally, but a life in captivity is a fitting punishment for rapists and murderers.

are you for real mate. do you know or have known any violent criminals in your life. violent criminals are not like a sun roof that you can just open and close ffs. mate look at it like this. i have no one in the world that wants to do me harm. but if tomorrow i get up and start robbing drug dealers and next week i get shot in the head what would you think of that. you could say i did not deserve to die for doing that but you would also say what did i expect to happen by doing that. you need to break this thing down into 2 parts. the first is george floyd ended up on the ground with a knee on his neck because of the life choices he made. the 2nd part is the cop ended up killing george floyd because he chose too. the point im trying to make is both of them chose to be at that point at that time. i dont care that george floyd was killed that day and i dont care if the cop gets 100 years. the fact of the matter is life choices are what put both of them at that point in time. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 minutes ago, UNIQUE said:

are you for real mate. do you know or have known any violent criminals in your life. violent criminals are not like a sun roof that you can just open and close ffs. mate look at it like this. i have no one in the world that wants to do me harm. but if tomorrow i get up and start robbing drug dealers and next week i get shot in the head what would you think of that. you could say i did not deserve to die for doing that but you would also say what did i expect to happen by doing that. you need to break this thing down into 2 parts. the first is george floyd ended up on the ground with a knee on his neck because of the life choices he made. the 2nd part is the cop ended up killing george floyd because he chose too. the point im trying to make is both of them chose to be at that point at that time. i dont care that george floyd was killed that day and i dont care if the cop gets 100 years. the fact of the matter is life choices are what put both of them at that point in time. 

Yes I’ve known some really bad people in my time. I’ve also known people who were really bad people when they were on drugs and alcohol and once they were clean they were very nice people. I’ve also known sober scum, and nice druggies. I’ve met lots of types of people, generalisations are usually fucking shite because there’s a shitloads of types of people out there.

George Floyd ended up on the pavement with not enough air to function because Chauvin wanted to show a rookie cop “how it was done” according to the cop that expressed concern that Chauvin might kill the man.

That indicates that at least one cop was worried the guy might be killed.

My mate recently found out he was charged more for work he had done round at his house because he’s Muslim & our mutual pal was charged about £70-80 quid less for pretty much the same exact shite. If my pal wanted to go around, find this guy, and drill holes into his kneecaps (which he doesn’t because he’s a very nice and forgiving guy, he’ll just take his business elsewhere)... over £70 I’m sure he’d think the guy got what was coming to him.

But I’m not so sure. What that guy did was wrong & he’s definitely a racist or a bigot or some type of prejudiced dickhead.

I think the guy who did my friend wrong is a total bigot who probably deserves to be beaten or something. But karma will get him, he’s a piece of shit bigot. Taking someone’s ability to fucking walk ever again over £70 or 80 is fucking outrageous.

And again, that’s what’s happened here. A life was taken over 20 quid basically.

If white cops feel afraid to do that ever again, good. Nobody should die over what’s allegedly amounting to a $20 theft.

[UNIQUE]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yes I’ve known some really bad people in my time. I’ve also known people who were really bad people when they were on drugs and alcohol and once they were clean they were very nice people. I’ve also known sober scum, and nice druggies. I’ve met lots of types of people, generalisations are usually fucking shite because there’s a shitloads of types of people out there.

George Floyd ended up on the pavement with not enough air to function because Chauvin wanted to show a rookie cop “how it was done” according to the cop that expressed concern that Chauvin might kill the man.

That indicates that at least one cop was worried the guy might be killed.

My mate recently found out he was charged more for work he had done round at his house because he’s Muslim & our mutual pal was charged about £70-80 quid less for pretty much the same exact shite. If my pal wanted to go around, find this guy, and drill holes into his kneecaps (which he doesn’t because he’s a very nice and forgiving guy, he’ll just take his business elsewhere)... over £70 I’m sure he’d think the guy got what was coming to him.

But I’m not so sure. What that guy did was wrong & he’s definitely a racist or a bigot or some type of prejudiced dickhead.

I think the guy who did my friend wrong is a total bigot who probably deserves to be beaten or something. But karma will get him, he’s a piece of shit bigot. Taking someone’s ability to fucking walk ever again over £70 or 80 is fucking outrageous.

And again, that’s what’s happened here. A life was taken over 20 quid basically.

If white cops feel afraid to do that ever again, good. Nobody should die over what’s allegedly amounting to a $20 theft.

but we have no proof that the cop did it because he was racist. we can all make a guess but we have no proof. this is the problem. the news ( propaganda as it is now ) will tell you this only happened because floyd was black. the cop might have done it because he was racist or he might have done it because he was a cunt. joe biden said this is a victory against systemic racism but at no time in this case was it proven to be racist. but my point at the start was this. the white police in america will get to the point where they will be scared to pull over a  black suspects because they could end up getting more time than the criminal. the BLM movement that everyone loves so much wants to get rid of the police. they do this at the same time as they are killing people. attacking the police. looting shops. burning homes and businesses beating people and pretty much intimidating anyone that dont toe the line. the problem we have in the world today is exactly like you have seen on here tonight. if you dont agree with the far left wokes you are racist. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, UNIQUE said:

but we have no proof that the cop did it because he was racist. we can all make a guess but we have no proof. this is the problem. the news ( propaganda as it is now ) will tell you this only happened because floyd was black. the cop might have done it because he was racist or he might have done it because he was a cunt. joe biden said this is a victory against systemic racism but at no time in this case was it proven to be racist. but my point at the start was this. the white police in america will get to the point where they will be scared to pull over a  black suspects because they could end up getting more time than the criminal. the BLM movement that everyone loves so much wants to get rid of the police. they do this at the same time as they are killing people. attacking the police. looting shops. burning homes and businesses beating people and pretty much intimidating anyone that dont toe the line. the problem we have in the world today is exactly like you have seen on here tonight. if you dont agree with the far left wokes you are racist. 

The trial wasn’t over whether he was racist, though? The trial was about whether he killed the guy.

I think it’s possible for people that work in an environment surrounded with systemic racism (remember: America has a very bad issue with racism, probably worse than America) and have racial biases as part of working in that system, not because they want to be racist.

They don’t want to abolish the police literally. Read about what their goals attached to that “abolish the police” slogan are. It’s just a shit slogan.

They still want cops. They just don’t want cops doing the jobs that in other countries (including the UK in many instances) doing the job of social workers.

I agree it’s a shit slogan that doesn’t give anyone enough information about what they mean. I think shit slogans are bad, and trying to make complicated thoughts short and sweet often leads to letting your message be easily misread. Because on the face of it, abolish means abolish.

Re: looting, see previous posts where I’ve said things with no response.

I haven’t called you a racist on here at all... unless you’ve said yes to that hypothetical question in that one post. I’m just debating with you because I  really disagree with your opinion on this and I genuinely want to change your mind.

All I’m suggesting is that with America you’ve got to consider there are very poor race relations because there is systemic racism on a lot of different levels and the police are simply asked to do too much in the US.

In a sense, yeah maybe Chauvin is a fall guy for the decades and centuries of racial inequality in the US. At least the most public face of taking the heat for a black man in America being treated with lethal harshness by the police.

If George Floyd’s legacy ends up leading to meaningful police reform that leads to less people dying & more trust in the police over time, then who cares if he wasn’t the greatest person in his life? His legacy would leave a greater good in that case.

White people who’ve shot and killed people, like the two examples I gave, shouldn’t be getting high fives and hamburgers (like they did) when a potentially violent black man is choked to death over $20. If today’s police feel less safe to make that possible for tomorrow’s police to be able to treat everyone the same and police crime properly regardless of race, it’s worth it.

[UNIQUE]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The trial wasn’t over whether he was racist, though? The trial was about whether he killed the guy.

I think it’s possible for people that work in an environment surrounded with systemic racism (remember: America has a very bad issue with racism, probably worse than America) and have racial biases as part of working in that system, not because they want to be racist.

They don’t want to abolish the police literally. Read about what their goals attached to that “abolish the police” slogan are. It’s just a shit slogan.

They still want cops. They just don’t want cops doing the jobs that in other countries (including the UK in many instances) doing the job of social workers.

I agree it’s a shit slogan that doesn’t give anyone enough information about what they mean. I think shit slogans are bad, and trying to make complicated thoughts short and sweet often leads to letting your message be easily misread. Because on the face of it, abolish means abolish.

Re: looting, see previous posts where I’ve said things with no response.

I haven’t called you a racist on here at all... unless you’ve said yes to that hypothetical question in that one post. I’m just debating with you because I  really disagree with your opinion on this and I genuinely want to change your mind.

All I’m suggesting is that with America you’ve got to consider there are very poor race relations because there is systemic racism on a lot of different levels and the police are simply asked to do too much in the US.

In a sense, yeah maybe Chauvin is a fall guy for the decades and centuries of racial inequality in the US. At least the most public face of taking the heat for a black man in America being treated with lethal harshness by the police.

If George Floyd’s legacy ends up leading to meaningful police reform that leads to less people dying & more trust in the police over time, then who cares if he wasn’t the greatest person in his life? His legacy would leave a greater good in that case.

White people who’ve shot and killed people, like the two examples I gave, shouldn’t be getting high fives and hamburgers (like they did) when a potentially violent black man is choked to death over $20. If today’s police feel less safe to make that possible for tomorrow’s police to be able to treat everyone the same and police crime properly regardless of race, it’s worth it.

mate im off to bed now and i will read through that and give my opinion in the morning but i would just like to say that having a debate with you has been interesting and we all learn from talking about things. fair play to you buddy its not offten that people will accept an opinion that dont match there own but you do. top man i will see you tomorrow my friend 

[Spike]

You can arrest someone without killing them. Simple as.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEI7oX0XxJw

[Cicero]

I so wish that was real. 

[Stan]

5 hours ago, UNIQUE said:

the white police in america will get to the point where they will be scared to pull over a  black suspects because they could end up getting more time than the criminal

Maybe don't kill them while they arrest them then? 

You seem to bring up a lot of irrelevant stuff to the sole incident of what Chauvin did on that day to Floyd. 

You also bring up that black kids kill each other (I asked for proof that it was 500 per week and you're yet to provide any so I'll treat it as bollocks). But you seem to forget or ignore that in the past fortnight, cops have killed a 15 year old who called the police because she was being attacked, and also killed a 13 year old while he was empty-handed. Cops have a severe problem these days and that's the thing that needs to change. Yes the protests will occur until lasting change happens and people have that right to protest. That also doesn't mean they can't feel justice for Floyd has been done. Whether or not you agree with BLM that doesn't even need to come in to the conversation of what happened between Floyd and Chauvin. 

Scenario - you violently beat someone up. You do the time as you were sentenced to. You then commit a very minor crime in comparison some time after being released. A police officer who knows you, sees you as a violent person even though that crime is well in the past and you've been suitably punished for it. That cop kills you. Hypothetically, how would you feel for that? How do you think your family will feel for it? You don't need to mention colour because that is irrelevant. 

[Cicero]

Lebron James needs to get off social media. 

[Spike]

‘Blacks kill blacks’ as if that in anyway changes the fact that the police kill black people. 
 
Sugary drinks and fatty foods also kill black people. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Police in America kill white people too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver?wprov=sfti1

Not as regularly as black people. But I think this highlights that this problem is twofold. There’s an element of systemic racism & police in America are quick to violence 

[Cicero]

Police Kill People. 

 

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Police Kill People. 

 

I'm sure all of those people were violent criminals though in the past. They had it coming to them, those pesky people!!!!111

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Police Kill People. 

 

True. But disproportionately in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

[Stan]

Anyone been able to find any verified info on black kids being killed (by other black kids) at a rate of 500 per week? Or even 200 per week to be lenient. 

That's 6000 kids a year being killed. Common sense would have you think there'd be some legit info on this. Or perhaps it's a made-up part of an agenda to suit an argument...

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

Anyone been able to find any verified info on black kids being killed (by other black kids) at a rate of 500 per week? Or even 200 per week to be lenient. 

That's 6000 kids a year being killed. Common sense would have you think there'd be some legit info on this. Or perhaps it's a made-up part of an agenda to suit an argument...

Not sure about kids but if we are talking about the black on black murder rate, the FBI website reports that in 2017 and in 2018, 89% of Black victims were killed by black offenders. 

No data for anything recent. 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Police in America kill white people too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver?wprov=sfti1

Not as regularly as black people. But I think this highlights that this problem is twofold. There’s an element of systemic racism & police in America are quick to violence 

They kill bloody everyone but that doesn’t justify any of it or make police killing blacks any less of a problem. You aren’t being smart or solving a problem by saying ‘they kill X and Y too’, of course they bloody do nobody said otherwise. It’s like saying ‘diabetes kills’ and then someone chips in with ‘yeah but what about cance?’

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

33 minutes ago, Spike said:

They kill bloody everyone but that doesn’t justify any of it or make police killing blacks any less of a problem. You aren’t being smart or solving a problem by saying ‘they kill X and Y too’, of course they bloody do nobody said otherwise. It’s like saying ‘diabetes kills’ and then someone chips in with ‘yeah but what about cance?’

 

I agree with you regarding violence towards black people from cops on the systemic racism front.

But I think police violence leading to death in America is almost a separate issue - even though it clearly has a strong overlap with systemic racial biases in the American justice system.

[Spike]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I agree with you regarding violence towards black people from cops on the systemic racism front.

But I think police violence leading to death in America is almost a separate issue - even though it clearly has a strong overlap with systemic racial biases in the American justice system.

that is what I said though

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, Spike said:

that is what I said though

I think we're both on the same page, I just didn't want to seem like I was pushing the issue of systemic racism aside to show that cops in the US are just violent.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think we're both on the same page, I just didn't want to seem like I was pushing the issue of systemic racism aside to show that cops in the US are just violent.

I think that's just stating a fact to be fair. Not pushing anything aside in doing so.

[UNIQUE]

what would people say if i said i know someone ( not real ) that goes out every week and gets drunk and drives home and he has done this for over 20 years and last week he crashed his car and killed himself while driving drunk. or another guy i know ( not real ) that has been injecting heroin for 20 years and last week he died from a overdose. 

[UNIQUE]

On 22/04/2021 at 07:28, Stan said:

Maybe don't kill them while they arrest them then? 

You seem to bring up a lot of irrelevant stuff to the sole incident of what Chauvin did on that day to Floyd. 

You also bring up that black kids kill each other (I asked for proof that it was 500 per week and you're yet to provide any so I'll treat it as bollocks). But you seem to forget or ignore that in the past fortnight, cops have killed a 15 year old who called the police because she was being attacked, and also killed a 13 year old while he was empty-handed. Cops have a severe problem these days and that's the thing that needs to change. Yes the protests will occur until lasting change happens and people have that right to protest. That also doesn't mean they can't feel justice for Floyd has been done. Whether or not you agree with BLM that doesn't even need to come in to the conversation of what happened between Floyd and Chauvin. 

Scenario - you violently beat someone up. You do the time as you were sentenced to. You then commit a very minor crime in comparison some time after being released. A police officer who knows you, sees you as a violent person even though that crime is well in the past and you've been suitably punished for it. That cop kills you. Hypothetically, how would you feel for that? How do you think your family will feel for it? You don't need to mention colour because that is irrelevant. 

is that the girl who was about to stab another girl to death or a different case. the case i saw was the police were called to a fight taking place and when the cops came he saw one girl was about to kill another girl and told her to drop the knife which she did not do and was shot. the thing is the cop did not know which one of them had called the police and could only react to what he saw. im sure the family of the girl who was about to be stabbed was happy that the cop saved her. did you see the story last week about the little 8yo girl that got shot sitting in a car by gangbangers.