Klopp v Pep

[Spike]

In fact, I'd state that playing a technical midfielder as a winger is an incredibly Pepeqsue thing to do.

[Burning Gold]

You can't really argue that Guardiola played a big part in Bayern winning 8 in a row in Germany, but in that same period, Juventus have done 9 in a row and PSG 7 from 8. Spain's a bit different, but not that different. Barca and Real have won every title since 04. It's how football works these days. Monopolies are the norm. It's not not an achievement to win the league with those clubs, but it's expected with the deck being stacked so heavily in their favour.

One could argue that that's what City should be doing in England, such is their financial dominance.

 

[Burning Gold]

7 minutes ago, Spike said:

What are you talking about? You say that as if he set up like Diego Simeone with in a 4-4-2 with a deep defensive block looking to attacking once every 18minutes on the counter.

Don't think I said that, but I could be wrong.

Those are just two examples (the two most obvious to me) of Pep Guardiola deviating from his usual set up in response to what the opponent might do. Is that compromising his principles?

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

Don't think I said that, but I could be wrong.

Those are just two examples (the two most obvious to me) of Pep Guardiola deviating from his usual set up in response to what the opponent might do. Is that compromising his principles?

The formation changed, the tactics and strategy didn't. When did a Guardiola team not dominate possession, play from the back, form passing triangles, slowly increasing tempo from the defence to the attacking players, press high, and congest the middle of the pitch? 1-2-4-4, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, it doesn't change the team's identity. Formation importance is overrated, it is only a means to an end, besides teams have different formations depending on the phase, it is dynamic not static.

[Burning Gold]

7 minutes ago, Spike said:

The formation changed, the tactics and strategy didn't. When did a Guardiola team not dominate possession, play from the back, form passing triangles, slowly increasing tempo from the defence to the attacking players, press high, and congest the middle of the pitch? 1-2-4-4, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, it doesn't change the team's identity. Formation importance is overrated, it is only a means to an end, besides teams have different formations depending on the phase, it is dynamic not static.

Arguably didn't congest the middle of the pitch in the 3-0 with Gundogan wide right, definitely invited us on to them for large parts of the 2-1 at Etihad in 18/19

[Lucas]

I can never be too bothered to get too deep into these discussions. They seem as pointless as the Messi v Ronaldo one's where you go round and round in circles.

The only thing I'll say is this and that will be my two cents worth.

Klopp is enjoying the best spell he's had presently and is flavour of the month, rightly so. Built a great side from what he inherited and turned Liverpool from a laughing stock in this country to one that strikes fear across Europe.

He has won two massive titles back to back and now has a team that has the opportunity to evolve and dominate domestically for the next few years which is a tremendous challenge in itself. This is his, and Liverpool's chance to rip up the record books and leave a legacy.

But to knock a man like Pep in the current climate when the chips are down, just because someone has beaten his team convincingly recently, let alone for what he has done for the game, is madness and pure ignorant. We are talking about one of the most influential figures in modern football history.

The bloke is a genius. Forget the money, as @RandoEFC has kept saying, he doesn't control that. City target players and he just gives his opinion yes or no, if they fit the criteria. The rest is done above him by Txiki Begiristain.

Let's concentrate on his talents. He is a pioneer. He has revolutionised the way Football is played and set a bar that for a long time, others tried and couldn't reach.

Yes, he's always been blessed with resources, inherited decent players etc but you've still got to make it work and for the majority of his time, he has. And playing at a level that I don't think any other manager has achieved. He's won the league in three countries playing the most beautiful brand of football.

As good as Liverpool were last season, they were not as easy on the eye to watch as Pep's City in the 100pt season. No way. City from a couple season's ago were without doubt one of the most exciting sides I think I've ever had the pleasure to watch anyway.

City not winning the Champions League will continually be the stick to beat him with and yes, they should have at the very least made a final by now let alone won it.

But you know what? If it happens it happens and if it don't it won't. Guardiola has already won countless trophies, and improved countless players. He’s changed the game, and for the better.

This is in no way a slight on Klopp. He is terrific in his own right. Liverpool fans will forever hold him on a pedestal for the man that delivered them their first Premier League after so long.

I just don't think Klopp will ever leave a legacy quite like Pep has across the game. Ignore the hate for Man City being an oil rich club and give the man the respect he deserves.

[Harry]

4 hours ago, Spike said:

What daya mean 'are we'? The very existence of the thread is proof to that, there is a further four more pages of that line of thought.

You asked if we were questioning his ability. I'd suggest we're just comparing him to another awesome manager.

[Spike]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

You asked if we were questioning his ability. I'd suggest we're just comparing him to another awesome manager.

Maybe you, but a lot of people seem to be doing otherwise.

[Harry]

11 hours ago, Danny said:

Yeah of course they did and that was due to recruitment and their managers, Pep deserves more credit. 3 league titles and 2 German Cups in 3 years, when he retires people will realise how hard it is for managers to Hoover up silverware as he does

Presumably you'd give Ronaldo similarly vigorous defence if anyone knocked his triumphs winning titles at Juventus despite the lack of success in the Champions league?

[Rick]

While I think he’s overrated, I still class pep as in the top 5 coaches in world football. He’s obviously fantastic. My previous post about his record in the champions league with city still stands though. It’s been a total failure.

[The Artful Dodger]

11 hours ago, Rick said:

While I think he’s overrated, I still class pep as in the top 5 coaches in world football. He’s obviously fantastic. My previous post about his record in the champions league with city still stands though. It’s been a total failure.

Out of interest, where in the top 5? 

[Rick]

2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Out of interest, where in the top 5? 

3rd, just behind Pardew.