Spike 5,107 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 When in doubt, just claim you were fishing for replies even though you are a known non-fisher and an all round sour puss Come on, Cicero you aren't fooling anyone with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,107 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 58 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: "The premier league is a pacey idiots paradise" hey that was me, fuck off cunt you know I'm right about it being a pacey idiot's paradise, it's not my fault that Werner is too pacey and too much of an idiot for it to apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, Spike said: That makes no sense at all. If a team had been in bad form since December they'd welcome any win. Yeah. If you're fighting relegation. It's all relative. A manager that goes on and spends 250 million over the summer isn't going to have his job saved by relying on a consistent run of poor performances. There needs to be continuous signs of progression and there hasn't been for months. If that's the case, he cannot be trusted to take the club further. 28 minutes ago, Spike said: When in doubt, just claim you were fishing for replies even though you are a known non-fisher and an all round sour puss Come on, Cicero you aren't fooling anyone with that Behave. You'd love that to be true. Turn your attention to the Willian thread. @shut up criticised the Havertz and Werner transfer because 'they came from Germany'. I used Pulisic as a direct example of the impact they could have and I shut down the 'weaker league' notion. My comment was in direct response to @Devil-Dick Willie and his constant ramblings on how shit Werner is. He's scored 30+ league goals in the Bundesliga. Is that a farmers league then or is Lampard using Werner, and all of his other new signings, completely wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,254 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 40 minutes ago, Cicero said: What a bite. Knew I’d get you with that one. Of course I don’t think the Bundesliga is a farmers league. That’s simplistic thinking. I’m pointing out the inconsistencies in your argument where you continue to shrug off the notion Lampard has no idea how to utilise any of his new signings, and instead are just shit. Werner in particular. How does a 30+ goal scorer turn to utter dross in a matter of months? Is the Bundesliga garbage or more to do with the manager? Everything is a factor. An important point to note is that when I predicted Werner to be underwhelming is that I was very impressed with what lamps had done last season. I warned you based on Werners ability to play football, not because I thought lampard was completely clueless. However. I could see the signs of a "marquee" type pointless signing. As far as I was concerned, you looked like you were building a team that would look like this --------------------------------xxxx------------------------------- xxx-------------xxx-----------------xxx--------------------xxx ----------------xxx-----------------------xxx--------------------- ----------------------Havertz/Mount-------------------------- CHO/Ziyech-----Grioud/Abraham--------------Pulisic Werner fits nowhere in that team. As you have discovered. Wingers can cross and dribble, Werner can't. Lone front men can hold up the ball, finish half chances. Werner can't. At RB, Werner played left forward, as you've said. However, what you might not realize is that --------------------------------------xxx----------------------------------- xxx---------------------xxx---------------xxx----------------------xxx ----------------Kampl/Adams-----Laimer------------------------- Forsberg--------------------------------------------------------Sabitzer -------------------------Poulsen---------Timo------------------------------ This is the standard best 11 of RB from that season, in the formation they most liked to line up in. Here's how it works The Bundesliga is a very fluid counter attacking league. RB are arguably the best in the league at that style. This team would sit compact, with a very steady defense and 2 great transitional defending midfielders screening, with the 2 wide men chipping in plenty of defensive duties. As soon as the ball was turned over, Kampl or Laimer or a darting run from one of their excellent wing backs would start a counter, with Forsberg and Sabitzer sprinting into the most available space, whether that be wide, or in behind the 2 strikers. This often created 4 on 3, or 3 on 2 overloads Werner darts into space in behind, using his pace (his one outstanding attribute) to make through passes too easy for Sabitzer and Forsberg, who are both outrageously good attacking midfielders, and IMO, better than any Chelsea has at the moment, with the possible exception of Ziyech. This puts him in behind an over stretched defense. OR Forsberg/ Sabitzer find huge space, and lay it back for him or Poulsen. Werner scored 30 goals a season, by going one on one with the goalkeeper about 100 times a season. Add in his goals from the spot, or goals from scrambles/set pieces and you start to get the picture. It's not just that he's a left forward being played out of position, its that he's a left forward, around who an entire team was built, who was set up to score from walk ins and 1 on 1s, and still wasn't efficient at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,107 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I said it once and I'll say it again, watch Werner's goals from RBL, they are all the same. Left channel, on the break, moving inside towards goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,254 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Don't even get me FUCKING STARTED ON WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PLAY HIM ALONE UP FRONT. FAILING TO PASS A FUCKING GROUP STAGE WITH MEXICO, WEST KOREA AND DENMARK 2.0 IS WHAT HAPPENS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,254 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I'd like Werners testicles electrocuted for that debacle, but he didn't pick himself I guess, It was jogis fault. Werner up front is as effective as spit on a house fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Everything is a factor. An important point to note is that when I predicted Werner to be underwhelming is that I was very impressed with what lamps had done last season. I warned you based on Werners ability to play football, not because I thought lampard was completely clueless. However. I could see the signs of a "marquee" type pointless signing. This whole argument wouldn't of existed if you didn't start putting words in my mouth. "If Werner was playing ST and not LW he would make those tap ins." "If Werner were playing left forward, he would magically have the touch of an angel and would learn how to finish." I never once denied Werner was a wasteful finisher. Matter of fact, I agree with your whole assessment on Werner. My point is that I expected Lampard, who specifically chose our targets, to have some idea or blueprint ready to utilise our attacking players. I gave him the time he 100% deserved, but he hasn't been successful in doing so. You are so fixated on Werner doing poorly, you're forgetting to see everyone's been poor. Havertz who's numbers were Messi like, is poor. Ziyech who is one of Europe's best chance creators, is poor. Giroud, Tammy, and even our player of the season in Pulisic has been poor. This is much bigger than Werner. The only thing I don't agree with is Werner being a pointless signing. I'd like to see an experienced manager work with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 The key is to simply never sign a Nagelsmann player. The man is a god at putting decent players with one or two outstanding attributes into weird systems and making them look world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Inverted said: The key is to simply never sign a Nagelsmann player. The man is a god at putting decent players with one or two outstanding attributes into weird systems and making them look world class. Ironically, a manager we are linked with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,254 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, Cicero said: This whole argument wouldn't of existed if you didn't start putting words in my mouth. "If Werner was playing ST and not LW he would make those tap ins." "If Werner were playing left forward, he would magically have the touch of an angel and would learn how to finish." I never once denied Werner was a wasteful finisher. Matter of fact, I agree with your whole assessment on Werner. My point is that I expected Lampard, who specifically chose our targets, to have some idea or blueprint ready to utilise our attacking players. I gave him the time he 100% deserved, but he hasn't been successful in doing so. You are so fixated on Werner doing poorly, you're forgetting to see everyone's been poor. Havertz who's numbers were Messi like, is poor. Ziyech who is one of Europe's best chance creators, is poor. Giroud, Tammy, and even our player of the season in Pulisic has been poor. This is much bigger than Werner. The only thing I don't agree with is Werner being a pointless signing. I'd like to see an experienced manager work with this team. You were for a while arguing that it was mostly Lampards fault he was rubbish. It's both their faults. And that's what makes Werner a pointless signing. Even when best utilized, he's not great, I'm not surprised Havertz has underwhelmed either, the difference is that I rate him pretty highly. He's a weird player though, you need to set him up to get the best out of himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,107 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Cicero said: Ironically, a manager we are linked with. it isn’t really irony when chelsea are linked with everyone under the sun otherwise they signed kaka ten times from 2003-2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,107 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: You were for a while arguing that it was mostly Lampards fault he was rubbish. It's both their faults. And that's what makes Werner a pointless signing. Even when best utilized, he's not great, I'm not surprised Havertz has underwhelmed either, the difference is that I rate him pretty highly. He's a weird player though, you need to set him up to get the best out of himself. Havertz is a weird player because he has never had a consistent position. CM, CAM, LW, RW, CF? What is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: You were for a while arguing that it was mostly Lampards fault he was rubbish. It's both their faults. And that's what makes Werner a pointless signing. Even when best utilized, he's not great, I'm not surprised Havertz has underwhelmed either, the difference is that I rate him pretty highly. He's a weird player though, you need to set him up to get the best out of himself. No. I didn’t. The only thing I stated was Lampard needed to end the LW bollocks. If he’s going to persist with a 433, have Werner central making direct runs vs having him hug the touch line and asking him to create chances at LW. I want Havertz at CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,254 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Cicero said: No. I didn’t. The only thing I stated was Lampard needed to end the LW bollocks. If he’s going to persist with a 433, have Werner central making direct runs vs having him hug the touch line and asking him to create chances at LW. I want Havertz at CF. Werner is worse as the man up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,254 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, Spike said: Havertz is a weird player because he has never had a consistent position. CM, CAM, LW, RW, CF? What is he? An odd duck. An attacking midfielder come second striker who can drift right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefreeluke 722 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Dreadful performance. Sometimes you can spend millions but at the end of the day, your best players are the ones you produced yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,254 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 hours ago, carefreeluke said: Dreadful performance. Sometimes you can spend millions but at the end of the day, your best players are the ones you produced yourself. Okay Barcelona settle down hey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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