Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Danny said: Which is why you have 4 experienced centre backs, it’s not hindsight it’s standard practice. In hindsight it might have been prudent to keep Lovren but knowing our luck he probably be warming a physio's bench in Kirkby too. I can't be arsed but just wondering if your "standard practice" of 4 dependable CB's is actually the case at the other Premier squads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stan said: I don't get this concept that it has to be an £80m star or a youth player. So many other clubs have been able to find good players somewhere in-between. And much more reliable & fitter than the likes of Matip or the youngsters. Even if it was just to do a job behind the preferred 2 of Van Dijk/Gomez. I believe we had a plan in place Stan, a plan to sign a top CB to partner VVD, that plan hasn't changed. OK we could, and maybe should have signed a stop gap player until a top player comes along. We aren't bankrolled by Russian crooks or oil sheik sugar daddies, even a stop gap CB would cost 20M, maybe our owners weren't on board with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 29, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted January 29, 2021 26 minutes ago, Scouse_Mouse said: I believe we had a plan in place Stan, a plan to sign a top CB to partner VVD, that plan hasn't changed. OK we could, and maybe should have signed a stop gap player until a top player comes along. We aren't bankrolled by Russian crooks or oil sheik sugar daddies, even a stop gap CB would cost 20M, maybe our owners weren't on board with that? Yeah you're not bank-rolled by them but let's not act like you're short of money! Winning the league and CL, as well as being back by multi-billionaires doesn't mean you shouldn't be competing or can't compete in the transfer market. I don't expect you to splash the cash as if there's no tomorrow, but it does surprise me there hasn't been some kind of experience added to help the team along, even if only on a short-term contract? Granted there may not be players available as clubs get a bit more savvy in responding to the pandemic and the effect that is having on clubs, but it doesn't mean no business can be done at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 53 minutes ago, Scouse_Mouse said: In hindsight it might have been prudent to keep Lovren but knowing our luck he probably be warming a physio's bench in Kirkby too. I can't be arsed but just wondering if your "standard practice" of 4 dependable CB's is actually the case at the other Premier squads? Dias, Stones, Ake and Laporte at City, Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe at United, Spurs have Alderweireld, Sanchez, Rodon, Dier (with Ben Davies playing in a back 3)...go back to the top United teams, they had Ferdinand, Vidic, O’Shea, Evans, even Wes Brown. That’s why they won 3 titles in a row. Because alongside topping up their best talent they also had depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 17 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: Kane fucked both ankles apparently? 2 fucked ankles? nailed on to sign for City this summer, we love a sick note! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Stan said: I don't get this concept that it has to be an £80m star or a youth player. So many other clubs have been able to find good players somewhere in-between. And much more reliable & fitter than the likes of Matip or the youngsters. Even if it was just to do a job behind the preferred 2 of Van Dijk/Gomez. Tbf FSG taking us from a club that pretty much only signed shit stopgaps to a club that buys the players it actually wants is sort of what turned us around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 18 minutes ago, Danny said: Dias, Stones, Ake and Laporte at City, Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe at United, Spurs have Alderweireld, Sanchez, Rodon, Dier (with Ben Davies playing in a back 3)...go back to the top United teams, they had Ferdinand, Vidic, O’Shea, Evans, even Wes Brown. That’s why they won 3 titles in a row. Because alongside topping up their best talent they also had depth. Fair enough, I guess we thought VVD + Gomez+ +Matip + Phillips and at a push Fabhino could play their parts, if so in hindsight we were mistaken. But as I said, the CB's we wanted aren't available and maybe FSG didn't want to spend big on a stop gap player? Speaking of which Im not sure which available CB we could have targeted in this transfer window bearing in mind we don't have the deep pockets most of the other clubs mentioned have? Look, Im not suggesting we should have stood pat in this window, LFC have shown that they will spend big if the right players come along (eg VVD and Alison) I just (at this time) don't see which players could have been bought without overspending on a run of the mill CB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 7 minutes ago, Scouse_Mouse said: Fair enough, I guess we thought VVD + Gomez+ +Matip + Phillips and at a push Fabhino could play their parts, if so in hindsight we were mistaken. But as I said, the CB's we wanted aren't available and maybe FSG didn't want to spend big on a stop gap player? Speaking of which Im not sure which available CB we could have targeted in this transfer window bearing in mind we don't have the deep pockets most of the other clubs mentioned have? Look, Im not suggesting we should have stood pat in this window, LFC have shown that they will spend big if the right players come along (eg VVD and Alison) I just (at this time) don't see which players could have been bought without overspending on a run of the mill CB? I simply don’t believe there wasn’t a centre back out there that you could have brought in at some point, clearly you don’t want to spend for whatever reason but it would have been very easy for yourselves to secure a decent centre back. The problem with relying on Fabinho is that it takes away from your midfield and so if you do go down to the 4th centre back in your current case then you have to play two midfielders at centre back or an out of his depth youngster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Danny said: I simply don’t believe there wasn’t a centre back out there that you could have brought in at some point, clearly you don’t want to spend for whatever reason but it would have been very easy for yourselves to secure a decent centre back. The problem with relying on Fabinho is that it takes away from your midfield and so if you do go down to the 4th centre back in your current case then you have to play two midfielders at centre back or an out of his depth youngster. Trust me Danny, I know that playing Fab out of position is one of the main reasons we aren't doing as well this season. And maybe there are good and available CB's out there, I just don't see who? We don't have the deep pockets that bank rolled clubs have to add squad players at the premium any club would expect from us right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, Scouse_Mouse said: Trust me Danny, I know that playing Fab out of position is one of the main reasons we aren't doing as well this season. And maybe there are good and available CB's out there, I just don't see who? We don't have the deep pockets that bank rolled clubs have to add squad players at the premium any club would expect from us right now? You have deep enough pockets after winning the league and CL afford a back-up, 4th choice centre back and if your scouting team can’t find you one then that’s on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I hate this “in hindsight” argument that’s being presented by some here. We went into the season with Van Dijk, Gomez & Matip as our only senior centre back options. Matip being available consistently is as reliable as a starving dog, and Gomez has had his own major injury issues while with us. Van Dijk is the only one who has been reliable in fitness terms. Fabinho is so important to how we play, that he shouldn’t be counted in that list by anybody. Also sick of hearing “there’s no top centre backs available right now” who is asking for that?! We just want anybody with experience. Anybody who has played more than half a season of football in the German second division. This team are having to rely on Nat Phillips now, somebody they were ready to get rid of in the summer so the club can fuck off saying he will be enough for the rest of our season. Reece Williams was playing non league football last season and this season we expect the lad to play champions league games. Takes the piss this situation and the club have had months now since Van Dijk & Gomez got injured to sort out a plan. It’s now 29th of January, with two days left of the window and there’s not even a sniff of anybody coming in. Unless there are major movements in the next 48 hours, then the club have completely failed Klopp on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Danny said: You have deep enough pockets after winning the league and CL afford a back-up, 4th choice centre back and if your scouting team can’t find you one then that’s on them. With all due respect I think LFC have more of a clue than you or I Danny. Clearly everyone knows that we need a CB, I think our plan was to buy a blue chip CB to partner VVD, that hasn't changed, our pockets are only as deep as the owners allow, it's frustrating at times but afaic I'm much happier to have a workable plan rather than pull a City or Chelsea plan of spending like drunken sailors "just incase" we have to play a 50M player that we just have hanging around incase of injuries. I'm not really disagreeing with you per se Danny, its just not as simple as jumping a bus to the CB shop to pick one off the shelf? It certainly hasn't been the case with owners in the past but we now have a transfer "plan" in place and I think its worked our pretty well for us so far mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I get that the club have a certain way of doing things with signings, and it’s absolutely worked out for the most part. BUT, at what point do you alter those plans? Does a mass injury crisis at the back not mean you have to adjust? Or do you just piece together a back four for a full half season, hoping it works out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 7 minutes ago, Rick said: I hate this “in hindsight” argument that’s being presented by some here. We went into the season with Van Dijk, Gomez & Matip as our only senior centre back options. Matip being available consistently is as reliable as a starving dog, and Gomez has had his own major injury issues while with us. Van Dijk is the only one who has been reliable in fitness terms. Fabinho is so important to how we play, that he shouldn’t be counted in that list by anybody. Also sick of hearing “there’s no top centre backs available right now” who is asking for that?! We just want anybody with experience. Anybody who has played more than half a season of football in the German second division. This team are having to rely on Nat Phillips now, somebody they were ready to get rid of in the summer so the club can fuck off saying he will be enough for the rest of our season. Reece Williams was playing non league football last season and this season we expect the lad to play champions league games. Takes the piss this situation and the club have had months now since Van Dijk & Gomez got injured to sort out a plan. It’s now 29th of January, with two days left of the window and there’s not even a sniff of anybody coming in. Unless there are major movements in the next 48 hours, then the club have completely failed Klopp on this one. Not saying it would have to be a top CB, if there is a good reliable CB available out there Id be totally in favour of signing him. I just don't see who that is Rick? Honestly who would we buy right now that would be worth paying even 20M for that was a step up from Phillips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Sokratis is mediocre, but he is better than Phillips. Garay is getting on, but he is better than Phillips. Janmaat was available, he is better than Phillips. Those are just three free signings that could have helped us out. I’m not a scout, so I can’t give you a list of available players right now, but I’m not having that there isn’t quality out there. Leicester signed Fofana for 30m and he looks class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 29, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted January 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rick said: Sokratis is mediocre, but he is better than Phillips. Garay is getting on, but he is better than Phillips. Janmaat was available, he is better than Phillips. Those are just three free signings that could have helped us out. I’m not a scout, so I can’t give you a list of available players right now, but I’m not having that there isn’t quality out there. Leicester signed Fofana for 30m and he looks class. I didn't want to be biased but the fact we've been able to sign Fofana and Soyuncu in recent seasons are 2 perfect examples of not wanting to spend obscene amounts but still get quality players in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Klopp answered the CB question after the game last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, Rick said: Sokratis is mediocre, but he is better than Phillips. Garay is getting on, but he is better than Phillips. Janmaat was available, he is better than Phillips. Those are just three free signings that could have helped us out. I’m not a scout, so I can’t give you a list of available players right now, but I’m not having that there isn’t quality out there. Leicester signed Fofana for 30m and he looks class. Im an obsessive bugger mate who watches everything LFC, especially since lockdown boredom set in, but even I haven't seen enough of Phillips to make a definitive decision. He's looked a bit dodgy at times but did a good job yesterday albeit against a toothless Spurs. Of the players you've mentioned only Sokratis is available and Ive seen nothing from him to suggest he'd be a noticeable improvement on Phillips, in fact a few of my Gooner mates don't rate Sokratis at all Rick. Factor in the wages he would want if we got him on a free especially knowing that we are over a barrel right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, LFCMadLad said: Klopp answered the CB question after the game last night. Meh, what does he know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, Scouse_Mouse said: Im an obsessive bugger mate who watches everything LFC, especially since lockdown boredom set in, but even I haven't seen enough of Phillips to make a definitive decision. He's looked a bit dodgy at times but did a good job yesterday albeit against a toothless Spurs. Of the players you've mentioned only Sokratis is available and Ive seen nothing from him to suggest he'd be a noticeable improvement on Phillips, in fact a few of my Gooner mates don't rate Sokratis at all Rick. Factor in the wages he would want if we got him on a free especially knowing that we are over a barrel right now. Plenty of good players make moves that don’t work out. Sokratis played plenty of games for Klopp at Dortmund, and it wasn’t because he’s shit. But we are going to go around in circles here. @Stan Your signings of those two & Evans has been brilliant. Top players don’t have to be 60-80m, plenty going under the radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 30 minutes ago, Scouse_Mouse said: With all due respect I think LFC have more of a clue than you or I Danny. Clearly everyone knows that we need a CB, I think our plan was to buy a blue chip CB to partner VVD, that hasn't changed, our pockets are only as deep as the owners allow, it's frustrating at times but afaic I'm much happier to have a workable plan rather than pull a City or Chelsea plan of spending like drunken sailors "just incase" we have to play a 50M player that we just have hanging around incase of injuries. I'm not really disagreeing with you per se Danny, its just not as simple as jumping a bus to the CB shop to pick one off the shelf? It certainly hasn't been the case with owners in the past but we now have a transfer "plan" in place and I think its worked our pretty well for us so far mate? It’s as simple as planning ahead and knowing that you need a minimum of 4 experienced centre backs, you plan 1-2, maybe 3 transfer windows ahead. You have multiple targets, you should have a 4th centre back. You should have known 3 proven centre backs wasn’t enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rick said: Plenty of good players make moves that don’t work out. Sokratis played plenty of games for Klopp at Dortmund, and it wasn’t because he’s shit. But we are going to go around in circles here. Exactly, so wouldn't you think if Jurgen rates him higher than Philips he would have offered him a contract? 5 minutes ago, Rick said: @Stan Your signings of those two & Evans has been brilliant. Top players don’t have to be 60-80m, plenty going under the radar. I think we know that as well as anyone. We signed Robbo for 8M, that doesn't mean there are other world class full backs out there on the cheap mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 @Scouse_Mouse I can’t be arsed going back and forth. You have an answer for everything, and won’t admit it was bad planning. Can’t be on with that attitude towards a top football team. It’s not Sunday league football we are playing here, there’s too much on the line to have the attitude of “that should do us”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 29, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted January 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, Rick said: Plenty of good players make moves that don’t work out. Sokratis played plenty of games for Klopp at Dortmund, and it wasn’t because he’s shit. But we are going to go around in circles here. @Stan Your signings of those two & Evans has been brilliant. Top players don’t have to be 60-80m, plenty going under the radar. Precisely. Evans for only £3.5m is one of the most underrated signings around these days. Bargain. Last season majority of people & pundits picked Soyuncu as the better CB. Most Leicester fans saw it was Evans who was better, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, Rick said: @Scouse_Mouse I can’t be arsed going back and forth. You have an answer for everything, and won’t admit it was bad planning. Can’t be on with that attitude towards a top football team. It’s not Sunday league football we are playing here, there’s too much on the line to have the attitude of “that should do us”. We haven't been a "that will do us" club in a very long time Rick. Possibly why we haven't offered Sokratis a bunch of wages as a knee jerk stop gap solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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