Anthony Gordon - Newcastle Get Ripped off For Average Everton Winger

[Honey Honey]

11 hours ago, Lucas said:

I'll be surprised if Gordon is there in 2 years time at the rate Newcastle are moving. I just don't think he's much better than what they currently have already.

Unless he starts producing something regularly that I've not seen yet, and in fairness to the lad, he could in a better side, I fear he will have been and gone and flogged to someone like West Ham for a cut price deal.

Newcastle are very much in the early Chelsea stages like when they started buying Glen Johnson, Damian Duff, Scott Parker etc 

They fill a hole for a while and then get turfed out soon enough.

He'd also start as a bench player and would have to break through from 20 minute cameos between him and Saint-Maximin. 

At least this season. If in the Europa League or Conference League next year might be different.

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

no body thought joelinton and Almiron had anything yet under the correct environment they are reaching potential.   Longstaff has also started to show the promise from 2 or 3 years back.   

Gordon has shown his potential in some big games including last season's Merseyside derby.  Gordon is a victim of the toxicity around Everton

This is a classic case of a football fan fitting the facts around a narrative that you want to believe. 

It's more nuanced than this. Gordon hasn't been helped at Everton because the instability and uncertainty and variety of coaches isn't conducive to confidence and good development of young players. We've seen plenty stagnate at Everton like Holgate, Godfrey, Gordon, Lookman, Barkley, Vlasic, etc. who once had good potential. The problem is, players who make it in football can overcome that adversity and still show their class.

As I mentioned elsewhere. Rodwell and Barkley were both supposed to flourish when they left Everton and went to a proper club and they were both on the scrap heap before they turned 30. Moise Kean, Nikola Vlasic, Dan Gosling all never cut it at Everton and moved away young thinking the club was the problem. Barely heard of them since. Ademola Lookman is on a hot streak with Atalanta finally, but he was also anonymous at RB Leipzig, Fulham and Leicester before he found his sweet spot.

On the other hand, there are players who have flourished in a poor Everton team. Anthony Gordon isn't a Richarlison, and he isn't a Romelu Lukaku. Players who outperformed the team around them and earned a chance to move up the ladder. Gordon has allowed himself to be dragged down, let his head drop and even lose his place in the team. When a player leaves a football club, the reaction of that fanbase is usually very telling. We were gutted when we lost Lukaku and Richarlison. Nobody is really going to miss Anthony Gordon. In fact we're laughing at £35m being mentioned in the same sentence as him, just like we laughed when we got big money for Jack Rodwell.

He might develop some resilience as he matures and be able to flourish when things aren't all going his way. But currently, I see him as a player who may well show his potential if he gets the perfect combination of coach, teammates, tactics and reasonable expectations around him. I can see him having a good 12-18 months at Newcastle. But I think that if you continue to progress and sign better players, and he has to fight harder for his place in the team, or he has a poor run of form and comes in for some criticism by the fans and media, then he'll fall off a cliff pretty quickly because he's shown since breaking into the Everton team that he's mentally fragile.

Time will tell but even if he's really good between now and the end of next season then I won't be fully convinced I'm wrong.

[OrangeKhrush]

49 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

This is a classic case of a football fan fitting the facts around a narrative that you want to believe. 

It's more nuanced than this. Gordon hasn't been helped at Everton because the instability and uncertainty and variety of coaches isn't conducive to confidence and good development of young players. We've seen plenty stagnate at Everton like Holgate, Godfrey, Gordon, Lookman, Barkley, Vlasic, etc. who once had good potential. The problem is, players who make it in football can overcome that adversity and still show their class.

As I mentioned elsewhere. Rodwell and Barkley were both supposed to flourish when they left Everton and went to a proper club and they were both on the scrap heap before they turned 30. Moise Kean, Nikola Vlasic, Dan Gosling all never cut it at Everton and moved away young thinking the club was the problem. Barely heard of them since. Ademola Lookman is on a hot streak with Atalanta finally, but he was also anonymous at RB Leipzig, Fulham and Leicester before he found his sweet spot.

On the other hand, there are players who have flourished in a poor Everton team. Anthony Gordon isn't a Richarlison, and he isn't a Romelu Lukaku. Players who outperformed the team around them and earned a chance to move up the ladder. Gordon has allowed himself to be dragged down, let his head drop and even lose his place in the team. When a player leaves a football club, the reaction of that fanbase is usually very telling. We were gutted when we lost Lukaku and Richarlison. Nobody is really going to miss Anthony Gordon. In fact we're laughing at £35m being mentioned in the same sentence as him, just like we laughed when we got big money for Jack Rodwell.

He might develop some resilience as he matures and be able to flourish when things aren't all going his way. But currently, I see him as a player who may well show his potential if he gets the perfect combination of coach, teammates, tactics and reasonable expectations around him. I can see him having a good 12-18 months at Newcastle. But I think that if you continue to progress and sign better players, and he has to fight harder for his place in the team, or he has a poor run of form and comes in for some criticism by the fans and media, then he'll fall off a cliff pretty quickly because he's shown since breaking into the Everton team that he's mentally fragile.

Time will tell but even if he's really good between now and the end of next season then I won't be fully convinced I'm wrong.

we may walk away from the deal, we value him around 25m but were open to negotiate add-ons up to 35/40 but there are stories that Everton tried to ask 60m which is never going to happen.  

if we are at 60m we would be pursuing Maddison.   we have been very disciplined in being prepared to walk away from exploitation

[Stan]

Just now, OrangeKhrush said:

we may walk away from the deal, we value him around 25m but were open to negotiate add-ons up to 35/40 but there are stories that Everton tried to ask 60m which is never going to happen.  

if we are at 60m we would be pursuing Maddison.   we have been very disciplined in being prepared to walk away from exploitation

Exploitation?

Just because Newcastle value a player at a specific amount, doesn't mean that's the right one. There's a reason clubs slap huge price-tags on players...

[Honey Honey]

Seems he has missed training 2 days in a row without permission. So fine incoming surely.

Be awkward for the lad if he stays now.  I think it was Dan Ashworth that said when we are bidding we have 2 or 3 players on the go and we go for the one that is the best value for money, with a strict top figure. If the selling club is over that figure we move on to one of the other targets.

[RandoEFC+]

There is no way the deal will end up being anything like £60m. Most likely it'll be £25-30m up front, another £5-10m in realistic add-ons, so a realistic £35m-ish overall. Then there will be an extra £10m or so in add-ons that just aren't going to happen like him scoring 20+ Premier League goals in a season or Newcastle winning the Champions League within 5 years, but it will enable Everton to brief that it's a fee "potentially worth £45-50m" to make themselves sound better while Newcastle can say it's "£25m rising to £35m if he does well".

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Exploitation?

Just because Newcastle value a player at a specific amount, doesn't mean that's the right one. There's a reason clubs slap huge price-tags on players...

by exploitation I mean we will not do business with teams that there can be no realistic basis for negotiation.   the club will not pay over the top or engage in price gauging.   

on the same side we will not deliberately bid 20m for say Maddison or Diaby, we offered 40m and were open to structuring a deal but Leicester want 60m upfront and we can't do that and walked away.  You got to screw Chelsea over for Fofana because they were desperate and overpaid 50m if not more.

[Devil]

18 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

his stats are a victim of Everton being so bad, he also has produced 13 missed chances that the others couldn't pad his stats.  

for us he adds top endpace and the ability to be more direct than ASM and Almiron.   Gordon linked well with Richarlison, Frank had him play center forward at time and together with the fact that Everton are on pace for the worst attacking stats in premier league history is made the scapegoat.   I won't be surprised if he comes and starts to flourish

Hang on a minute.

Wasn't you basing your Weghorst theory of him being shite on the fact he struggled in a struggling side called Burnley?

Why does Gordon get leeway and another player doesn't?

Because he's potentially signing for Newcastle?

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Devil said:

Because he's potentially signing for Newcastle?

 

[RandoEFC+]

He has asked to leave the club by the way, I don't know if anyone has mentioned that in this thread. 

[OrangeKhrush]

14 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

He has asked to leave the club by the way, I don't know if anyone has mentioned that in this thread. 

didn't read that anywhere

[OrangeKhrush]

31 minutes ago, Devil said:

Hang on a minute.

Wasn't you basing your Weghorst theory of him being shite on the fact he struggled in a struggling side called Burnley?

Why does Gordon get leeway and another player doesn't?

Because he's potentially signing for Newcastle?

I didn't say weghorst was shit, I said man United fans talking it up like a marquee signing is tragic.

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

He has asked to leave the club by the way, I don't know if anyone has mentioned that in this thread. 

Would help lower the fee if it is still the case that players get x% of their transfer unless they request that transfer.

[OrangeKhrush]

the deal may have collapsed, the news on suggest Everton want 60m and we have decided to walk away.  

he now has to go back to training, awkward

[RandoEFC+]

Been speaking to Spurs as well apparently. They'll be running out of seats on that bench.

Can't exactly say the lad has covered himself with glory the way he's conducted himself here. Refused to train at his boyhood club as they fight relegation, not a very professional approach in general. Coaches and managers do notice this stuff, I'm sure. A player that's willing to force a move like this and announce loud and clear to the world that they're out for themselves, it isn't an attractive trait in a team sport.

[Honey Honey]

To be fair when fans are shouting you're not fit to wear the shirt at you and you're getting verbal abuse out and about why should there be anything other than looking out for yourself.

[Devil]

5 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I didn't say weghorst was shit, I said man United fans talking it up like a marquee signing is tragic.

You know I'm going to prove that wrong later.

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, Honey Honey said:

To be fair when fans are shouting you're not fit to wear the shirt at you and you're getting verbal abuse out and about why should there be anything other than looking out for yourself.

This is cherry picking though. Take Richarlison again as a counter example. Almost his entire Everton career he had stands chanting "you're not fit to wear the shirt" at them on a pretty regular basis. The abuse can never be condoned but the lad has done more than his fair share to sour his relationship individually with the fans. Dubbed himself "starboy", pushed for a move in the summer after half a season of decent but patchy performances in a team where it wasn't difficult to stand out, not turning up to training now without the club's permission.

What I'm saying is there's a way of conducting yourself when it's time to move on. Richarlison bled for the club until the last day of the previous season, asked for a move privately and got it, left with the blessing of the club and its fans and while a lot of people think he's a cunt because of how he behaves on the pitch, he's absolutely the sort of character you want in the trenches with you. The perfect example of a player proving there's still room to fulfil your duty to your existing club and still get your move or whatever it is you want without having to let anyone down.

Anthony Gordon listened to poor advice from an agent who wanted him to go and sit on Chelsea's bench instead of building on his first full season in Everton's team to line his own pocket. The club priced him out of the move, his attitude has been poor since, his performances have been poor, he's as much to blame for the current league position as any other player in the squad, he's now refusing to turn up to training without permission. 

As I've already said, Everton fans are basically universally united in being more than happy to see the back of Anthony Gordon and when a fanbase responds like that to a player, it's very telling indeed. And I'm in full agreement. The fact that anyone is willing to discuss the likes of £35m for a player who's lost his place at the joint bottom club in the league is an absolute jackpot for us. Newcastle are buying for potential. Players that show personality traits like Anthony Gordon has throughout this saga don't tend to fulfil their potential very often. That's what I mean by the looking out for himself comment.

[OrangeKhrush]

You know how badly a player has to be treated to leave his hometown club and one he went through the development system with.   This is a situation created by the shameful actions a few weeks back and the club failing to protect the players.   There is no justification for what was done,  it has shook him up and now he doesn't want to play for the club.   If that situation never happened I don't think he would be requesting a transfer at least until the summer. 

[Cicero]

Can't wait until Gordon refuses to go to Newcastle training in favor of a move to United. 

[RandoEFC+]

51 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

You know how badly a player has to be treated to leave his hometown club and one he went through the development system with.   This is a situation created by the shameful actions a few weeks back and the club failing to protect the players.   There is no justification for what was done,  it has shook him up and now he doesn't want to play for the club.   If that situation never happened I don't think he would be requesting a transfer at least until the summer. 

He already tried to leave the summer before any of that happened .

You're right about the club though. Those incidents will happen in football. It makes no sense that when they can get the players to arrive securely before the game that they don't do the same when they leave the ground.

[Devil]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

He already tried to leave the summer before any of that happened .

You're right about the club though. Those incidents will happen in football. It makes no sense that when they can get the players to arrive securely before the game that they don't do the same when they leave the ground.

The result obviously determines the fans state of mind for both scenarios though doesn't it.

Totally unacceptable obviously.

[OrangeKhrush]

10 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

He already tried to leave the summer before any of that happened .

You're right about the club though. Those incidents will happen in football. It makes no sense that when they can get the players to arrive securely before the game that they don't do the same when they leave the ground.

The situation at Everton is a bit tragic,  lots of worms in the apples

[RandoEFC+]

Gordon returned to training today apparently.

[OrangeKhrush]

sounds like a no deal situation