Subscriber JoshBRFC+ Posted January 6, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted January 6, 2023 Chaos in Mexico due to the capture of El Chapo’s son - Ovidio Guzman, one of the more prominent figures of the Sinaloa Cartel. He was captured previously in 2019 before the President ordered his release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted January 6, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted January 6, 2023 It's mental how much power and influence the cartels have in Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 5 hours ago, nudge said: It's mental how much power and influence the cartels have in Mexico. Mix of the general Mexican army not having the numbers or weapons to be able to deal with them and the number of politicians in Mexico who are on the take. CIA, FBI and other government employees in the USA are also on the take. Even so they pretend that they're fighting drug trafficking. Now and then they'll take a big time cartel member down to make the public happy. Once they've served their use they get taken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 5 hours ago, JoshBRFC said: Chaos in Mexico due to the capture of El Chapo’s son - Ovidio Guzman, one of the more prominent figures of the Sinaloa Cartel. He was captured previously in 2019 before the President ordered his release. Is it true that El Chapos sons are at war with El Mayos sons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted January 6, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 minute ago, MUFC said: Mix of the general Mexican army not having the numbers or weapons to be able to deal with them and the number of politicians in Mexico who are on the take. CIA, FBI and other government employees in the USA are also on the take. Even so they pretend that they're fighting drug trafficking. Now and then they'll take a big time cartel member down to make the public happy. Once they've served their use they get taken down. Yeah, but it's still mental. I thought the American-Italian Mafia were extremely well connected politically and very powerful during their golden age pre-RICO in the US, but even then they couldn't have possibly gone to an open war with the government, no way. The cartels are just a completely different level, they basically run the failed state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 41 minutes ago, nudge said: Yeah, but it's still mental. I thought the American-Italian Mafia were extremely well connected politically and very powerful during their golden age pre-RICO in the US, but even then they couldn't have possibly gone to an open war with the government, no way. The cartels are just a completely different level, they basically run the failed state. The CIA & Pentagon basically propped up the Guadalajara Cartel for some time before losing control of it. Part of the US's "war on drugs" is controlling the flow of narcotics to the #1 consumer nation of narcotics - I think it's also why US marines were guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan. Then there's shit like the "fast and furious" scandal where the US's Alcohol, Firearms, and Tobacco Agency (weird mix btw) was running guns to cartels: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal - they claim they were trying to use the guns to trace and arrest members of cartels running drugs into America. But in effect what they did was funnel thousands of guns to Cartels, arrest a few low level cartel members (nobody high up on in their hierarchy) and only were able to recover less than half the guns. Who knows if that was just a bad plan gone the way a bad plan goes... or if the plan was to just run guns to cartels. I don't think it's surprising these criminal enterprises have so much power, tbh. You mention the American-Italian mafia... but looking at it, that's just a scaled down version of what's happening with Mexican cartels. The American mob thrived in the US era of prohibition... and that's not surprising. Prohibition created a black market for alcohol - people love alcohol. So US organised crime had a huge domestic market. The drug market is an international black market - there's global demand for drugs. And Mexican cartels have grown so much from the 70s and 80s onwards because they're the last stop on the land route into the US (which again, is the biggest consumer nation for narcotics). And after September 11th, the land route for smuggling drugs into the US became the most popular way of bringing drugs into the country. And shit like methamphetamine's rise in popularity meant they could manufacture high profit drugs in Mexico, rather than relying on South American countries and cartels to produce things like cocaine (and now South American cartels play the roll of "drug transportation specialists" for Mexican meth). So they've got a much larger market than the "golden mob age" of America ever had & as a result make so an absolute shitload of money. And Mexico is not a super stable country politically and has issues with corruption at so many levels of government. And the US government acts as a sort of "frenemy" to these cartels & for decades hasn't changed policies that imo have actually strengthened these gangs. If the US has declared a "war on drugs"... drugs and the cartels are currently winning that war. Corruption goes a long way, and the biggest drug consumer's government having bad policies that don't deter drug trafficking & sometimes seemingly act to help drug producers/traffickers. Mexican cartels aren't the only example... there's the French Connection - which I remember being very surprised at learning isn't just a good movie! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Connection) & allegations of the US aiding the Nicaraguan contras in trafficking cocaine to fund clandestine US operations without there being a paper trail of those operations being funded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 Also as someone who's been to Mexico a lot and loves it... it does make me quite sad for ordinary Mexicans who just want to live ordinary lives. Mexico is a great country full of great people. They don't deserve to be living in a modern day version of the wild west, worrying about shit like shootouts between two heavily armed groups while they're caught in the crossfire. I live quite close to Tijuana and I've been there a lot and it was only a few months ago a shitload of cartel violence erupted there for about a week and I thought it was absolutely shocking, but so many Mexicans have just come to accept it as a fact of life in Mexico now. And that's pretty fucking sad tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 17 hours ago, nudge said: It's mental how much power and influence the cartels have in Mexico. Just wait til you hear about Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted January 7, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Just wait til you hear about Italy Yeah I'm aware, haha. But I guess what blows my mind most is the degree of militarisation in the cartels. Having extensive political power and influence is one thing, but when you have heavily armed paramilitary wings of the cartels engaging in open warfare with the police and military on the streets, it's just a completely different level to me I guess Italy came close to that in the early 90s, I still remember the Falcone and Borsellino bombings, as well as the aftermath when Riina was arrested, but that still was "just" assassinations and sneaky bombings, not military-like operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 34 minutes ago, nudge said: Yeah I'm aware, haha. But I guess what blows my mind most is the degree of militarisation in the cartels. Having extensive political power and influence is one thing, but when you have heavily armed paramilitary wings of the cartels engaging in open warfare with the police and military on the streets, it's just a completely different level to me I guess Italy came close to that in the early 90s, I still remember the Falcone and Borsellino bombings, as well as the aftermath when Riina was arrested, but that still was "just" assassinations and sneaky bombings, not military-like operations. Operation Gladio my guy. Declassified. Weapons and ammo dumps funded by drug trafficking, false flag terrorist attacks on the Italian people by fascist groups blamed on communist sympathizers ect ect. Then in i believe the 70s and 80s as all this came to light the incredible amount of assassinations of people in the know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted January 7, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted January 7, 2023 32 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Operation Gladio my guy. Declassified. Weapons and ammo dumps funded by drug trafficking, false flag terrorist attacks on the Italian people by fascist groups blamed on communist sympathizers ect ect. Then in i believe the 70s and 80s as all this came to light the incredible amount of assassinations of people in the know Will give it a read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ Posted January 7, 2023 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 7, 2023 17 hours ago, MUFC said: Is it true that El Chapos sons are at war with El Mayos sons? There are disputes within the Sinaloa Cartel, that started once El Chapo was arrested. It’s crazy to think that El Mayo has never been arrested. After all these years he’s never slipped up and always remained one step ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 3 hours ago, JoshBRFC said: There are disputes within the Sinaloa Cartel, that started once El Chapo was arrested. It’s crazy to think that El Mayo has never been arrested. After all these years he’s never slipped up and always remained one step ahead. Story is he's suppose to be quite ill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ Posted January 7, 2023 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 7, 2023 11 hours ago, nudge said: Yeah I'm aware, haha. But I guess what blows my mind most is the degree of militarisation in the cartels. Having extensive political power and influence is one thing, but when you have heavily armed paramilitary wings of the cartels engaging in open warfare with the police and military on the streets, it's just a completely different level to me I guess Italy came close to that in the early 90s, I still remember the Falcone and Borsellino bombings, as well as the aftermath when Riina was arrested, but that still was "just" assassinations and sneaky bombings, not military-like operations. The Cartels in Mexico and the power they have had for the last few decades outweigh anything from the Mafia in my opinion. I think a lot of it is the rural side of things and the fact it allows them to hide out a lot better. No cameras everywhere like there is in New York, for example - where the 5 families are concerned. That escape typifies the power he and Sinaloa cartel have had. In 2015 ffs not the 70’s when the mafia were at their peak when technology was non existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 2 hours ago, JoshBRFC said: The Cartels in Mexico and the power they have had for the last few decades outweigh anything from the Mafia in my opinion. I think a lot of it is the rural side of things and the fact it allows them to hide out a lot better. No cameras everywhere like there is in New York, for example - where the 5 families are concerned. That escape typifies the power he and Sinaloa cartel have had. In 2015 ffs not the 70’s when the mafia were at their peak when technology was non existent. I mean, the cartels are in direct opposition to the Mexican President and government. Whereas the Mafia are the government (or at least have been recently). In civilized countries power is media control, and control or access to politicians and big business and banking. In Mexico power is granted by the CIA to whoever plays ball. You're just taken by it because of its openly violent nature. But rest assured, the real power lies with the Russian oil tycoons and European crime groups with members you've never heard of. Oh, and the CIA and navy Seals. The biggest crime family out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 On 07/01/2023 at 21:41, Devil-Dick Willie said: I Oh, and the CIA and navy Seals. The biggest crime family out there He's your man. The USA hate him but are afraid to do anything about it, while he does what he wants. You won't get more "gangsta". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 The Russian Mafia would top the list for notoriety I would say. They operate more "underground" but seem to have a presence in every country and they themselves have military style weapons, probably nuclear ones knowing them . The Mexicans are crazy and definitely very sophisticated with their methods of exporting drugs, but they are also loose cannons who sort of have a street gang mentality and are too quick to pull the guns out. @nudge @JoshBRFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 A cafe I used to frequent was run by a Russian mobster. The head waitress there, who had an adorable kiwi accent once told me he was a russian who drove a merc and that she yelled at him once for being rude to the chef . I immediately suspected he might be Mafia, but then one day I saw him there eating with clients. Prison tattoos and all, wrist to neck (he was in a suit). I told her she probably shouldn't yell at him again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 18 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: A cafe I used to frequent was run by a Russian mobster. The head waitress there, who had an adorable kiwi accent once told me he was a russian who drove a merc and that she yelled at him once for being rude to the chef . I immediately suspected he might be Mafia, but then one day I saw him there eating with clients. Prison tattoos and all, wrist to neck (he was in a suit). I told her she probably shouldn't yell at him again I'd have gone around there and let him know whose turf he was on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 I wonder what happened to this guy then? Filmed in the UK, looks like London. He definitely must have owed them money, stole their drugs, or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Matteo Messina Denaro arrested: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64288928 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ Posted January 25, 2023 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 25, 2023 On 16/01/2023 at 18:01, Dr. Gonzo said: Matteo Messina Denaro arrested: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64288928 Watched a lot on him over the years. Crazy… 30 years on the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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