SirBalon Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 18 hours ago, Kowabunga said: The far right think the sentence is half-assed. From my limited law understanding, there may be a serious concern in terms of this lengthy sentence potentially severing right to demonstrate (civil disobedience), as sedition (unlike rebellion) relates more to public order than to a damage to constitutional order. In that regard, those 9-year sentences for activists Sànchez and Cuixart are very worrying. The Spanish criminal code doesn't look fit to deal with the subversion from the institutions, as 'sedition' and 'rebellion' entail too many years and 'disobedience' none. In addition to the rationale for sedition and rebellion probably not fitting particularly well with the proven facts either ("tumultuary"; "violence"... are problematic terms). It's hard to have empathy with slimy pieces of shit like Turull, who deemed the 15 June 2011 protests of the 15M movement before the Parliament of Catalonia a "coup d'etat" and was instrumental in demonstrators being handed a prison sentence, though. As far as I'm concerned, the way all of this has been handled is a demonstration of the crisis Spanish politics is going through. I know the justice system is or should be fully independent from anything politically motivated, but due to chaos that currently exists without a seeming end or solution to the problem in the near future, then this issue will continue to become more and more intense. The sentences are totally out of context and absurd without any real dissection of the necessary individual cases which would've gone a long way to silencing the populists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, SirBalon said: As far as I'm concerned, the way all of this has been handled is a demonstration of the crisis Spanish politics is going through. I know the justice system is or should be fully independent from anything politically motivated, but due to chaos that currently exists without a seeming end or solution to the problem in the near future, then this issue will continue to become more and more intense. The sentences are totally out of context and absurd without any real dissection of the necessary individual cases which would've gone a long way to silencing the populists. Realistically though the only movements with any potential to build up a majority for secession are the Catalans and the Basques. I don't think Asturias is going to break away, Galicia is going to join Portugal, or Andalucia is going to demand to join Morocco. There only are a couple of major movements so it would be far better to engage with them politically, and allow the debate to run its course, than to cross your arms and demand that the secessionists play along with a legal game that everyone knows is rigged against them. It only feeds into their argument that Spain is a centralist, authoritarian country. I understand that it's not necessarily the fault of an current Spanish politician - it's the system which is causing these issues. Despite all the hassle and the uncertainty, I think the way the issue with Scottish independence has been handled so far is much better. And that's only possible because our constitution says nothing about it, so it's up to our leaders to agree on a reasonable course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, Inverted said: Despite all the hassle and the uncertainty, I think the way the issue with Scottish independence has been handled so far is much better. And that's only possible because our constitution says nothing about it, so it's up to our leaders to agree on a reasonable course of action. Indeed it has been handled much better and infact of all contemporary European and maybe even worldwide calls and searches for independence, the Scottish movement has been the cleanest and most workable method I know of personally. I may be being rather innocent and ignorant in my next statement and I appologise beforehand if this is the case, but Scotland's call for independence is the one I know of that's got the biggest basis for a just cause with a clear historical justification for the debate and a possible execution of rightful independence. In Spain it is very very questionable mixed with all sorts of allegiances for the benefit of the nobels and or the bourgeoisie of the time. We really do have to go back into ancient history where Spain is concerned to have a foundation for these calls for independence and can can guarantee you that Catalonia is NOT one of them. It is a movement based on populism first and foremost, a particular issue rooted in Spanish culture based around an odd sentiment of protesting for anything and everything with always the search for something new to be unhappy about and claim ABUSE etc... You caj sit in a bar having a coffee or a glass of wine and argue till the cows come home in Spain where the subject of complaint on something can vary 100 times in a matter of hours. I'm getting very petulant here and again I beg pardon. Catalonia is an odd case and that's why it causes such a contrasting opinion in Spain. As for Galicia because I know quite a bit on this... The only Galicians with a separatist sentiment which includes Portugal are those like the Catalans that have no foundation for the absurd call due to the fact it's based in language which is the large percentage on what Catalans get all emotional on independence. The true Galician separatist will call for its rather unique historical claim for oddity and difference within the Peninsula which has more similarities with the Irish, Scottish, Welsh and Bretons than their geographical position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teso dos Bichos Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teso dos Bichos Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 El periodista que desmontó a Guardiola: "Es el propagandista número uno de los Emiratos Árabes" El corresponsal de 'France Football', Philippe Auclair, ha publicado el libro 'Qatargate', sobre las relaciones de corrupción en el mundo de fútbol, y habla claro del técnico catalán El entrenador del Manchester City, Josep Guardiola, participó recientemente en un debate en la Universidad de Liverpool para dar su versión sobre el procés independentista y la “persecución no solo política” que, a su juicio, ejerce el Estado contra algunos de sus ciudadanos. El corresponsal de France Football en el Reino Unido y autor del libro Qatargate, sobre la corrupción en el mundo del futbol, Philippe Auclair, fue uno de los principales periodistas que contribuyeron a desmontar el doble rasero del extécnico azulgrana. En conversación con este medio, asegura que Guardiola “era un embajador clave de Catar y ahora es el propagandista número uno de un régimen aún peor, los Emiratos Árabes Unidos”. Los Emiratos Árabes Unidos es la unión de países constituidos bajo una monarquía federal de Oriente Medio y compuesto por Abu Dabi, Ajmán, Dubái, Fuyara, Ras al-Jaima,Sarja y Umm al-Qaywayn. De acuerdo con el último Índice de Democraciaelaborado por la Unidad de Inteligencia de la publicación The Economist en 2017, los Emiratos Árabes Unidos es un “régimen autoritario”, ocupa la posición 147 de un total de 167 países y obtiene un suspenso (2,69) en calidad democrática. España, en cambio, ostenta la posición 19, con una puntuación de 8,08 y es considerada “una democracia plena”. Solo le interesan algunos derechos humanos Guardiola es un experto en fútbol y no en política, pero no dudó en calificar a España como un “Estado autoritario”, pese a que no hay, hasta la fecha, ningún informe internacional que avale sus posicionamientos. Esto, no obstante, no le impide realizar ruedas de prensa, conferencias y participar en actos políticos aprovechando el renombre internacional que tiene como entrenador de fútbol. Auclair asegura que “no está sorprendido por el tono y contenido” del de Santpedor y no tiene pelos en la lengua: “La democracia y los derechos humanos son claramente preocupaciones suyas cuando las víctimas, reales o imaginarias, son personas que comparten sus puntos de vista”. Asimismo, añade que le gustaría saber si alguno de los que presenció la conferencia en Liverpool “se atrevió a mencionar” sus vinculaciones con dictaduras del Medio Oriente. Ignoró al preso Zahir Belounis Auclair fue el primero en destacar que Guardiola había hecho caso omiso a la carta abierta de otro futbolista, Zahir Belounis, publicada en The Guardianpidiéndole su ayuda para que la dictadura de Qatar lo liberase tal y como exigía la ONG de Derechos Humanos Human Right Watch. El técnico catalán es uno de los embajadores pagados por la dictadura de Qatar para que el Mundial de Futbol de 2022 se celebrase en el país asiático. Por su parte, Belounis pasó 19 meses sin poder salir de Qatar y jamás recibió la solidaridad de Guardiola. El corresponsal de France Football lo definió así en Twitter: “La supuesta defensa de ‘humanidad’ que hace el catalán con los encarcelamientos de la justicia española contrastan con su total falta de responsabilidad mostrada hacia este preso del régimen catarí que le rogaba ayuda”. Guardiola, en una celebración en Qatar Blanqueador de dictaduras Pero Guardiola no solo no quiso ayudar a este futbolista de 33 años, sino que ha intentado blanquear la imagen de algunos de estos países de los que recibe grandes cantidades de dinero. Durante una rueda de prensa tras un partido del Manchester City aseguró que "cada país decide la forma en que quieren vivir ellos mismos", como si los ciudadanos sometidos a una dictadura pudieran decidir. Su comentario se basaba en ese relativismo de creer que la democracia no es un valor universal y que, por lo tanto, solo defiende la “democracia” en una parte del globo, concretamente en España. En otra ocasión llegó a decir que “Qatar es un lugar muy seguro donde los ciudadanos tienen libertad”. Unos comentarios que también se han oído en boca de otro exfutbolista azulgrana, Xavi Hernández, que dijo que “no hay democracia en Catar, pero la gente es feliz y está encantada con la familia real". Cabe destacar que el jefe del equipo que entrena Guardiola es un importante jeque de Emiratos Árabes Unidos y principal responsable de pagarle el sueldo de más de 17 millones de dólares anuales que recibe. Cronica global Guardiola only cares about a few human rights .. of those who support him realistically or imaginable.... wants to belittle Spain but was the main ambassador for Quatar and now he has joined an even more evil empire.... Carles Puigdemont haciendo comunicados desde Bélgica, Pep Guardiola desde Inglaterra y Xavi Hernández desde Qatar. No se me ocurre mejor metáfora de lo que significa dar la cara desde primera línea por la independencia. Indepes” por el mundo: los negocios de Guardiola, Piqué y Xavi Hernández . A pesar de que todos ellos desarrollan negocios de éxito en España, no han dudado en mostrar su desacuerdo por las penas dictadas contra los independentistas @SirBalon and this is were my hate for That piece of shit named FCB and all those two face players and supporters!! They want to shit talk Spain while they bend over for Qatar and UAE and Pep is the main one... Or tell me, do you agree with the comment that made me lose any respect I had for xavi.... "there is no democracy here but people are very happy".... by people he only refers to the Qatar elite y la puta que lo pario, es un maldito puñeta con dos caras!! Spain is being way too nice.... if it was up too me, I would do as the north did to the south and kill anyone who opposes the sacred country and destroy their shithole area just to remind them what they would be without Spain, unos putos lame bichos como Pep y xavi!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 56 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said: 29 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said: El periodista que desmontó a Guardiola: "Es el propagandista número uno de los Emiratos Árabes" El corresponsal de 'France Football', Philippe Auclair, ha publicado el libro 'Qatargate', sobre las relaciones de corrupción en el mundo de fútbol, y habla claro del técnico catalán El entrenador del Manchester City, Josep Guardiola, participó recientemente en un debate en la Universidad de Liverpool para dar su versión sobre el procés independentista y la “persecución no solo política” que, a su juicio, ejerce el Estado contra algunos de sus ciudadanos. El corresponsal de France Football en el Reino Unido y autor del libro Qatargate, sobre la corrupción en el mundo del futbol, Philippe Auclair, fue uno de los principales periodistas que contribuyeron a desmontar el doble rasero del extécnico azulgrana. En conversación con este medio, asegura que Guardiola “era un embajador clave de Catar y ahora es el propagandista número uno de un régimen aún peor, los Emiratos Árabes Unidos”. Los Emiratos Árabes Unidos es la unión de países constituidos bajo una monarquía federal de Oriente Medio y compuesto por Abu Dabi, Ajmán, Dubái, Fuyara, Ras al-Jaima,Sarja y Umm al-Qaywayn. De acuerdo con el último Índice de Democraciaelaborado por la Unidad de Inteligencia de la publicación The Economist en 2017, los Emiratos Árabes Unidos es un “régimen autoritario”, ocupa la posición 147 de un total de 167 países y obtiene un suspenso (2,69) en calidad democrática. España, en cambio, ostenta la posición 19, con una puntuación de 8,08 y es considerada “una democracia plena”. Solo le interesan algunos derechos humanos Guardiola es un experto en fútbol y no en política, pero no dudó en calificar a España como un “Estado autoritario”, pese a que no hay, hasta la fecha, ningún informe internacional que avale sus posicionamientos. Esto, no obstante, no le impide realizar ruedas de prensa, conferencias y participar en actos políticos aprovechando el renombre internacional que tiene como entrenador de fútbol. Auclair asegura que “no está sorprendido por el tono y contenido” del de Santpedor y no tiene pelos en la lengua: “La democracia y los derechos humanos son claramente preocupaciones suyas cuando las víctimas, reales o imaginarias, son personas que comparten sus puntos de vista”. Asimismo, añade que le gustaría saber si alguno de los que presenció la conferencia en Liverpool “se atrevió a mencionar” sus vinculaciones con dictaduras del Medio Oriente. Ignoró al preso Zahir Belounis Auclair fue el primero en destacar que Guardiola había hecho caso omiso a la carta abierta de otro futbolista, Zahir Belounis, publicada en The Guardianpidiéndole su ayuda para que la dictadura de Qatar lo liberase tal y como exigía la ONG de Derechos Humanos Human Right Watch. El técnico catalán es uno de los embajadores pagados por la dictadura de Qatar para que el Mundial de Futbol de 2022 se celebrase en el país asiático. Por su parte, Belounis pasó 19 meses sin poder salir de Qatar y jamás recibió la solidaridad de Guardiola. El corresponsal de France Football lo definió así en Twitter: “La supuesta defensa de ‘humanidad’ que hace el catalán con los encarcelamientos de la justicia española contrastan con su total falta de responsabilidad mostrada hacia este preso del régimen catarí que le rogaba ayuda”. Guardiola, en una celebración en Qatar Blanqueador de dictaduras Pero Guardiola no solo no quiso ayudar a este futbolista de 33 años, sino que ha intentado blanquear la imagen de algunos de estos países de los que recibe grandes cantidades de dinero. Durante una rueda de prensa tras un partido del Manchester City aseguró que "cada país decide la forma en que quieren vivir ellos mismos", como si los ciudadanos sometidos a una dictadura pudieran decidir. Su comentario se basaba en ese relativismo de creer que la democracia no es un valor universal y que, por lo tanto, solo defiende la “democracia” en una parte del globo, concretamente en España. En otra ocasión llegó a decir que “Qatar es un lugar muy seguro donde los ciudadanos tienen libertad”. Unos comentarios que también se han oído en boca de otro exfutbolista azulgrana, Xavi Hernández, que dijo que “no hay democracia en Catar, pero la gente es feliz y está encantada con la familia real". Cabe destacar que el jefe del equipo que entrena Guardiola es un importante jeque de Emiratos Árabes Unidos y principal responsable de pagarle el sueldo de más de 17 millones de dólares anuales que recibe. Cronica global Guardiola only cares about a few human rights .. of those who support him realistically or imaginable.... wants to belittle Spain but was the main ambassador for Quatar and now he has joined an even more evil empire.... Carles Puigdemont haciendo comunicados desde Bélgica, Pep Guardiola desde Inglaterra y Xavi Hernández desde Qatar. No se me ocurre mejor metáfora de lo que significa dar la cara desde primera línea por la independencia. Indepes” por el mundo: los negocios de Guardiola, Piqué y Xavi Hernández . A pesar de que todos ellos desarrollan negocios de éxito en España, no han dudado en mostrar su desacuerdo por las penas dictadas contra los independentistas @SirBalon and this is were my hate for That piece of shit named FCB and all those two face players and supporters!! They want to shit talk Spain while they bend over for Qatar and UAE and Pep is the main one... Or tell me, do you agree with the comment that made me lose any respect I had for xavi.... "there is no democracy here but people are very happy".... by people he only refers to the Qatar elite y la puta que lo pario, es un maldito puñeta con dos caras!! Spain is being way too nice.... if it was up too me, I would do as the north did to the south and kill anyone who opposes the sacred country and destroy their shithole area just to remind them what they would be without Spain, unos putos lame bichos como Pep y xavi!!! You won't find me disagreeing with that and to be honest Josep Guardiola has become a total cretin. My sentiments toward him as a person don't have absolutely nothing to do with the fact he supports independence for Catalonia from Spain as everyone has the god damned right to believe in what they want while always observing that no hatred or harm is imposed on any people with those views. Guardiola the football professional from footballer to coach is someone I profoundly admire due to the fact I lived both periods of his career and I have nothing but views of amazement in this respect. But his character/personality has changed dramatically over recent years and he has become a fanatic and extremist in almost everything he talks about, even football. I have similar sentiments to Diego Maradona who for me along with Messi is the greatest footballer in history and yet Maradona is a character I detest. How far we've come since he wore the Spain shirt with so much enotion (3 times as captain) and even crying when getting knocked out of the World Cup. Oh... And won Olympic Gold with Spain in 1992 voted the MVP for the Olympic tournament... I was there in the Camp Nou that day against Poland where everyone got on their feet when King Juan Carlos of Spain entered the Camp Nou to take his seat. How things have changed! Sociologists have always maintained that most humans become more radical in their views the older they get... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowabunga Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 History accelerating today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 The Spanish police really are a bunch of bastards. Always super aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 What type of policing is this? I thought they were cunts with how they were throwing people around in the independence vote but seeing a lot of videos of these bastards just enjoying themselves battering people. Regardless of if you agree with Catalan independence or not, the way the Spanish government and the way the Spanish police are dealing with the situation is fucking disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 On 19/10/2019 at 11:10, 6666 said: What type of policing is this? I thought they were cunts with how they were throwing people around in the independence vote but seeing a lot of videos of these bastards just enjoying themselves battering people. Regardless of if you agree with Catalan independence or not, the way the Spanish government and the way the Spanish police are dealing with the situation is fucking disgraceful. Spanish policing is notoriously heavy handed. It's probably a carryover from having a fascist government from 1936-1975. Not that it makes it right that Spanish police culture is ridiculously violent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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