Who is the better player, Cole Palmer or Anthony Gordon?

[Michael]

Who is the better player, Cole Palmer or Anthony Gordon?

[Dr. Gonzo]

Palmer, easy

[Michael]

59 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Palmer, easy

I concur

[Redcanuck]

I think it's Palmer, can't understand what City we're thinking selling him to  Chelsea.

[OrangeKhrush]

Different positions and both are very good at what they offer.

[Michael]

45 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Different positions and both are very good at what they offer.

Cole Palmer can play as a winger.

[OrangeKhrush]

3 minutes ago, Michael said:

Cole Palmer can play as a winger.

So can Foden, and Trent can play 6 but it doesn't they are good at it.

[Michael]

Just now, OrangeKhrush said:

So can Foden, and Trent can play 6 but it doesn't they are good at it.

Have you seen Palmer play on the wing, I have and he's done very well there when he's played in that position. Trent is not a natural 6, that was Southgate coming up with some wacky idea playing him there and it has evidently failed. 

[Stan]

36 minutes ago, Michael said:

Have you seen Palmer play on the wing, I have and he's done very well there when he's played in that position. Trent is not a natural 6, that was Southgate coming up with some wacky idea playing him there and it has evidently failed. 

He's better as a central player, surely?

Gordon is quite clearly an actual winger. Palmer is better anyway but you're comparing players in different positions.

Trent isn't a natural 6 but Southgate was just trying to copy Klopp. It wasn't a 'wacky idea'. 

[Michael]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

He's better as a central player, surely?

Gordon is quite clearly an actual winger. Palmer is better anyway but you're comparing players in different positions.

Trent isn't a natural 6 but Southgate was just trying to copy Klopp. It wasn't a 'wacky idea'. 

He has mainly played as a central player, but he has also played on the wing for both club and country. So the point I was making is that he can play as winger, as he has played there many times before, even though he has mainly been used centrally. It's not like I am comparing a central defender with a centre forward.

Trent is definitely not a natural 6 and I think we have plenty of better options in that position. That's why I suggested it was a wacky idea. I'd start Gallagher(even though he also wasn't great yesterday) and Mainoo over Trent in that position any day of the week. I am not a fan of shoe-horning players into positions that aren't their natural positions. 

[OrangeKhrush]

Cole Palmer has a bit more polish about him,  he had been groomed in a Man City system with absolute butter around him.   Gordon had a much harder rise in a troublesome Everton team.    If you are judging by purely goals then yes Palmer is better but that is not to say the Gordon is not very good.   Last season was a break out for Gordon and his potential to improve is still there. 

When we signed him there were a lot of fans that hated the signing but I thought it was a good deal even though he struggled to adapt to our system,  I think Gordon is a good example of what shear determination,  work rate and self belief can achieve.   If Sancho had the same he would be that same superstar he was at Dortmund.  

A team with Gordon and Palmer is certainly going to be a good team.  If we are talking about England and potentially improving it certainly looks like Mainoo, Palmer and Gordon are clear means to achieve that,  it is just whether Gareth Southgate has the courage and trust in his squad. 

[LFCMike]

3 hours ago, Stan said:

He's better as a central player, surely?

Gordon is quite clearly an actual winger. Palmer is better anyway but you're comparing players in different positions.

Trent isn't a natural 6 but Southgate was just trying to copy Klopp. It wasn't a 'wacky idea'. 

Klopp's never played Trent as a 6 barring maybe a brief sub appearance in a League Cup game this season. He even ridiculed the idea of Southgate playing Trent as a midfielder at one point.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Michael said:

He has mainly played as a central player, but he has also played on the wing for both club and country. So the point I was making is that he can play as winger, as he has played there many times before, even though he has mainly been used centrally. It's not like I am comparing a central defender with a centre forward.

Trent is definitely not a natural 6 and I think we have plenty of better options in that position. That's why I suggested it was a wacky idea. I'd start Gallagher(even though he also wasn't great yesterday) and Mainoo over Trent in that position any day of the week. I am not a fan of shoe-horning players into positions that aren't their natural positions. 

Trent played well in a hybrid midfield role for us. But it's an inverted fullback role not him actually playing in midfield. Imo it's just evidence of Southgate's ineptitude, the way he's managing Trent and Foden. Foden starts on the left wing for City, but if you look at his heat map he's basically always central - expecting him to play in a more rigidly out-wide position is taking away from his natural game. Trying to force Trent in at #6 is similar but different, he's seen Trent operate similar to a midfielder... he's not really using him in any way near the same way Klopp has.

The reason it doesn't work with this current England setup is because there's no width and movement. Trippier stays wide but can't really take players on from the left, Foden cuts in centrally from the left - so that only really leaves Saka providing width. Foden, Kane, and Bellingham all occupying the same space and not really doing much running in behind means there isn't good movement in front of Trent. So it's not really even copying Klopp, because tactically it's just shoving a square peg in a round hole and hoping it'll come out round shaped.

I think there's a similar, yet different reason Gallagher was so poor yesterday as well - Gallagher in a side where he's the only one pressing is just going to have him looking like a headless chicken. Low and behold yesterday we see England not pressing other than through Gallagher and Gallagher was basically useless. I think that was worse than the two matches Trent started because... even with England on the whole looking terrible, he's still the most creative player in this England squad. He's just been scapegoated for England being poor while he's not playing in his natural position - there have been far worse performers for England this tournament.

[Stan]

51 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Klopp's never played Trent as a 6 barring maybe a brief sub appearance in a League Cup game this season. He even ridiculed the idea of Southgate playing Trent as a midfielder at one point.

Did he not play as inverted full back for a while? 

[LFCMike]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Did he not play as inverted full back for a while? 

Yeah but it's completely different to starting in midfield in the way Southgate has him playing. Trent needs the game in front of him and players actually making runs in behind