Subscriber Dan+ Posted July 8 Subscriber Share Posted July 8 3 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: @Spike take the night shift, use my baseline and take these fuckers to task please. If I wake up tomorrow and no Englishman has admitted their fucking dogshit team has reached 3 semis in 4 tournaments based on a fixture list that's kinder than a kindergarten teacher rather than any actual tactical or skill input, I will be sad. Am I Albanian or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted July 8 Subscriber Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, Reluctant Striker said: I don't see Southgate continuing even if we win the tournament. I think he'll consider it the right time to let someone else try at the North American World Cup. I think it is the time anyway. The FA seem to love him though. I can see them trying to convince him again. In a way I sort of hope he stays because apparently Leicester's owner quite likes him. Please for god sake no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 minute ago, Dan said: In a way I sort of hope he stays because apparently Leicester's owner quite likes him. Please for god sake no. I can't imagine him as a manager in the prem again. His time at Middlesbrough was a bit meh and ended with relegation. And the league's moved on tactically by a long ways since then, while international football generally isn't the place we managers truly develop and kick on tactically. I think it'd be a pretty miserable failure. I feel for Southgate in a sense because after England, there's not much of a bright future left for him in football imo. On the other hand, he sort of deserves it because it's insane to take this England squad and make them so unpleasant to watch lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Shaw says he's fit to play 90 minutes. If that's true, I hope he's starting against the Netherlands - I don't think it's any surprise we look a lot more balanced with an actual left footed player playing somewhere on the left for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted July 8 Subscriber Share Posted July 8 26 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I can't imagine him as a manager in the prem again. His time at Middlesbrough was a bit meh and ended with relegation. And the league's moved on tactically by a long ways since then, while international football generally isn't the place we managers truly develop and kick on tactically. I think it'd be a pretty miserable failure. I feel for Southgate in a sense because after England, there's not much of a bright future left for him in football imo. On the other hand, he sort of deserves it because it's insane to take this England squad and make them so unpleasant to watch lol. He'd be a disaster at club level. He's by his own admission not great tactically. I think so anyway, I don't want us to be the club that gambles on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 9 hours ago, Dan said: I don't even think it's necessarily just Southgate himself though, I think the FA want him there more than he wants to be there. The way he'd been acting early doors in this tournament was peculiar, almost as if he just wanted this over with ASAP. The performances felt a bit like that as well. I think it would've all made far more sense if Bellingham hadn't scored against Slovakia, but here we are. DDW made a quite interesting point about our best tournament performance under him actually being 2022. I can see that. We had three wins by 3+ goals, topped our group, knocked out a tricky Senegal with ease and fell to a side who were probably as good as the winners Argentina. I think having watched what has panned out this time around there's a case that despite exiting in an earlier round, this tournament hasn't lived up to that one. It was the one tournament where I don't think he really had much luck with the draws. There's a real case for me that he has delivered par from pretty much day one of his tenure. He's beaten the majority of teams he's expected to beat. He's hardly beaten anybody who he wasn't. The constant that goes against him is that he's lost a lot of the tight 50/50s. Croatia, Italy, arguably France. England haven't been good for pretty much any of our lifetimes though. We hardly ever turn up in tournaments. Hodgson was a disgrace in 2016, a tournament that I rank as England's worst of my footballing lifetime (born in 1993 but I'll judge anything from 2002 onwards) and yet I think we were seconds from basically equalling that this time around with almost eerie similarities. 2014 was abysmal as well, tough group but but into context by the fact Costa Rica ended up topping it, so was it really that tough? 2012 decent group effort, pretty bad knockout showing. 2010 a disgrace, 2008 didn't even qualify, 2006, 2004 and 2002 all pretty much par for me - very much on the end of tight margins which seems to be the theme with England, but the theme as well is that in all of them we weren't given kind draws. Southgate's luck with draws has been barely believable and he's still yet to convert it into a trophy. There's a lot of arguing going on in here but I think the truth is to be revealed this week and that nobody can really definitively say. If England go out this week I think basically every word DDW has said has been correct, and up until now, it's correct because we haven't won anything. If England do end up winning this tournament though, everything that you, Stan etc.. say about not caring about the performance if we're winning is totally valid. I think the not caring about the performance is fine when a trophy is won, but up until then, with no precedent of this actually delivering England any tangible success then I can't make any case for it. We shall see. It's going to be interesting. This has provided a quite interesting read for me in the last hour or so Hallelujah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 9 Subscriber Share Posted July 9 I haven't read the whole argument but surely nobody thinks this England tournament performance has been anything but exceedingly poor? They've had one 90 minute victory after playing Serbia, Denmark, Slovenia, Slovakia and Switzerland. The reasons England are in the semi-finals are because of a kind draw so far and a couple of moments of individual quality. This team has fallen well short of the sum of its parts and I think the manager can take minimal, if any, credit for them making the semi-finals or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnersaurus Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: I haven't read the whole argument but surely nobody thinks this England tournament performance has been anything but exceedingly poor? They've had one 90 minute victory after playing Serbia, Denmark, Slovenia, Slovakia and Switzerland. The reasons England are in the semi-finals are because of a kind draw so far and a couple of moments of individual quality. This team has fallen well short of the sum of its parts and I think the manager can take minimal, if any, credit for them making the semi-finals or more. Not this tournament no. I think over the course of his tenure he's done OK. But not this tournament. If England had been loosing to Slovakia but they were really pressing you could argue he's played a part in helping with belief and determination and substitutions etc but it was our first shot on target. It was due to Bellinghams individual brilliance that got us through I think. At the same time though by using the same logic you can't blame southgate when an England player makes a poor simple pass or similar mistake. Some of the passing by England has been terrible. And that is nothing to do with formation or tactics I don't think Edited July 9 by Gunnersaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted July 9 Subscriber Share Posted July 9 His tenure and this tournament are seperate arguments in my opinion , I think he's always seemed to have a lot of fortune in draws but you could at least point to a semi competent side. This time around, particularly for the talent supposedly on display it's been dire. I read a stat yesterday that we've created less chances in this tournament than Georgia and Poland. For some context, Poland played 3 games against France, Holland and Austria. We've played 5 games, two of which went to extra time, against Serbia, Denmark, Slovenia, Slovakia and Switzerland. Even Georgia did it in a game less having played Spain and Portugal. Appreciate I'm going over old ground a bit here but I think we've got to substantially improve just to get past Holland, let alone France or Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnersaurus Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) On 07/07/2024 at 14:43, MUFC said: Kane has to be dropped for Watkins and drop Foden for Cole Palmer. I'm not entirely sure but I don't think elite managers tend to drop their top players for big knockout games. I'm not saying southgate is an elite manager I'm just saying if we had an elite manager I don't think kane would be dropped so I can understand Southgate sticking with him. He can still produce a great moment of quality. And also you can make 5 subs so he can change it if he's doing badly Edited July 9 by Gunnersaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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