Open Note To Portugal

[Machado]

In Portugal we have the habit of "sailing by sight" and football is no exception.

What do I mean by this? Winning the Euro should have been seen as the starting point, not the final stop, even more so if we consider the abnormal conditions in which we won the trophy. However, that wasn't the case. Fernando Santos, who should have been rightfully congratulated and immediately dismissed after his wonderful achievement, stayed in charge of the national team, reinforcing a model that has nothing to do with our identity.

Yes, it was with him that we won our first senior trophy, but it won't be with him that we'll make any progress for the evident reason that he's not suited to capitalize on the qualities that are usually present in the typical Portuguese player.

SANTOS OUT

[ASF]

First of all, this open notes threads are getting tiresome (not aimed at you mate, because you are not the first or second to open this kind of threads).

Second, what the fuck mate?

I'll admit I was skeptical of Fernando when he came in. I thought 'Oh no, not another one of these old guys, with ideas past their validity in today's football. This won't end well. Again.'.

But he proved me wrong. He built a spirit in the national team, that wasn't seen since the days of Scolari. The players, the staff. They constitute a family. Not just a regular football team.

Everyone who likes the NT is disappointed and sad with this result. The dream was big. Finally, bringing the trophy that should have been here since 1966. That was what we were all hoping for.

But this is the typical knee-jerk reaction. We've achieved with this man what all others couldn't, before him. We joined the club of the big boys with that Euro.

I would give him the chance to lead us to the next Euro. He more than earned it. I certainly don't want to go back to the times of António Oliveira or that spastic of Queiroz.

As for that star over our badge: we'll have it, one day. I'm certain of it.

[SirBalon]

You two guys have more of a right than anyone to state your valid opinion than anyone else.

But I want to add my part to this looking from the inside out but as you will both be able to appreciate, with the added connection of our cultural and geographical similarities which do count for many reasons you'll both know, plus the general football analysis anyone can give.

First of all, I was sad for Portugal last night because I know that team could've given more and infact last night Portugal played more of a game in tune with their football heritage than all that Scrooge type football that brought the country the success they should've had decades before.

But for me the reason Portugal played the way they did yesterday was consequential to the fact they found themselves behind on the score board twice and subsequently were changing the game against a side Fernando Santos KNEW he wasn't going to be able to brew it and definitely not speculate on the hope that defending well with discipline and waiting for the moment a goal is scored would bring the inevitable... Because under Fernando Santos the tactic from my point of view was "don't worry guys, trust me, we'll get through because if we wait it will be inevitable".

Aside from the fact Portugal's football legacy is built on something completely different where football style and essence is concerned, it's traitorous to play like this due to the fact that Portugal produce a particular type of footballer that is more expressive and more in tune with their Iberian brothers in improvisation.

Both of you with your contrasting views are showing two different and opposite sentiments... Machado wants to win with the original legacy because he feels it CAN be done without a doubt (I accompany Machado in that view) and ASF's view is that he seems to have given up on that and that staying faithful to the man that FINALLY brought deserved success to one of the traditional football nations needs to be eternally appreciated and that for that reason, Fernando Santos can go when he so wishes.

Nostalgia can be a liar most times because romanticism doesn't always tell us the truth although when it has had victory connected to it, it's more difficult to dispute it.

Finally... I'm with Machado in this one André my friend...  Progress is always the key!  Fernando Santos should be given his stripes, the highest honours available (if they haven't already been given) by the State of Portugal and an eternal thank you for ever... Even make his day of victory a national holiday so as to mark it.  The nut has been broken with Santos and now let the talent Portugal produces express themselves and evolve what Portugal know how to produce which is a technically astute football product.

[SirBalon]

7 hours ago, Machado said:

In Portugal we have the habit of "sailing by sight" and football is no exception.

What do I mean by this? Winning the Euro should have been seen as the starting point, not the final stop, even more so if we consider the abnormal conditions in which we won the trophy. However, that wasn't the case. Fernando Santos, who should have been rightfully congratulated and immediately dismissed after his wonderful achievement, stayed in charge of the national team, reinforcing a model that has nothing to do with our identity.

Yes, it was with him that we won our first senior trophy, but it won't be with him that we'll make any progress for the evident reason that he's not suited to capitalize on the qualities that are usually present in the typical Portuguese player.

SANTOS OUT

Mate... Do you mind if I change the thread title to something more serious and apt because that open note stuff is shit.

[Carnivore Chris]

5 hours ago, ASF said:

 

As for that star over our badge: we'll have it, one day. I'm certain of it.

I had a sneaky feeling that may have been this year after watching the first game vs Spain, but since that game, you've just not been the same. Talented side and quite balanced, but lack in certain areas. 

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, The Rebel CRS said:

I had a sneaky feeling that may have been this year after watching the first game vs Spain, but since that game, you've just not been the same. Talented side and quite balanced, but lack in certain areas. 

I had that feeling also. Even in the second game against Morocco I thought in general that the criticism of the team was harsh and that they (Portugal) were still playing very much as a team.

But (I know how this is going to look coming from me) Cristiano got obsessed and yesterday was the perfect example of this. There were too many moments where Cristiano was on the ball and you could perfectly see the old mannerisms of tunnel vision with him and forgot everyone around him. Even the team got involved in that by searching for him a lot where they were playing really well as a team.

In the same manner I said last night that for Argentina to progress Messi has to retire from international duty. I believe that the same should occur with Portugal. Portugal have top players and they can compete!

[ASF]

6 hours ago, SirBalon said:

You two guys have more of a right than anyone to state your valid opinion than anyone else.

But I want to add my part to this looking from the inside out but as you will both be able to appreciate, with the added connection of our cultural and geographical similarities which do count for many reasons you'll both know, plus the general football analysis anyone can give.

First of all, I was sad for Portugal last night because I know that team could've given more and infact last night Portugal played more of a game in tune with their football heritage than all that Scrooge type football that brought the country the success they should've had decades before.

But for me the reason Portugal played the way they did yesterday was consequential to the fact they found themselves behind on the score board twice and subsequently were changing the game against a side Fernando Santos KNEW he wasn't going to be able to brew it and definitely not speculate on the hope that defending well with discipline and waiting for the moment a goal is scored would bring the inevitable... Because under Fernando Santos the tactic from my point of view was "don't worry guys, trust me, we'll get through because if we wait it will be inevitable".

Aside from the fact Portugal's football legacy is built on something completely different where football style and essence is concerned, it's traitorous to play like this due to the fact that Portugal produce a particular type of footballer that is more expressive and more in tune with their Iberian brothers in improvisation.

Both of you with your contrasting views are showing two different and opposite sentiments... Machado wants to win with the original legacy because he feels it CAN be done without a doubt (I accompany Machado in that view) and ASF's view is that he seems to have given up on that and that staying faithful to the man that FINALLY brought deserved success to one of the traditional football nations needs to be eternally appreciated and that for that reason, Fernando Santos can go when he so wishes.

Nostalgia can be a liar most times because romanticism doesn't always tell us the truth although when it has had victory connected to it, it's more difficult to dispute it.

Finally... I'm with Machado in this one André my friend...  Progress is always the key!  Fernando Santos should be given his stripes, the highest honours available (if they haven't already been given) by the State of Portugal and an eternal thank you for ever... Even make his day of victory a national holiday so as to mark it.  The nut has been broken with Santos and now let the talent Portugal produces express themselves and evolve what Portugal know how to produce which is a technically astute football product.

Toni, for me, our best NT that I saw was the one of the Euro 2000. Best football I saw us practice, above even than the one of 2004 or 2006.

The thing is that we always lost playing this type of football. Like you said, when romanticism is attached to victory, it's more difficult to dispute it.

Would I prefer to see us playing the old way, attractive, eye-candy football? Absolutely. But I also want to maintain the wining habit and mentality. The mentality that we're not inferior than the big sides, because they have more money, other type of facilities, another dimension.

If we can mix both things, a winning mentality and attractive football, we'll definitely be in the right way.

 

5 hours ago, The Rebel CRS said:

I had a sneaky feeling that may have been this year after watching the first game vs Spain, but since that game, you've just not been the same. Talented side and quite balanced, but lack in certain areas. 

Yeah mate. 

Don't know to what extent, what happened to the Sporting lot in May might have affected their spirit to play in this WC.

[Fusion]

GIVE HIM BACK TO GREECE!

[Machado]

On 01/07/2018 at 04:58, ASF said:

First of all, this open notes threads are getting tiresome (not aimed at you mate, because you are not the first or second to open this kind of threads).

Second, what the fuck mate?

I'll admit I was skeptical of Fernando when he came in. I thought 'Oh no, not another one of these old guys, with ideas past their validity in today's football. This won't end well. Again.'.

But he proved me wrong. He built a spirit in the national team, that wasn't seen since the days of Scolari. The players, the staff. They constitute a family. Not just a regular football team.

Everyone who likes the NT is disappointed and sad with this result. The dream was big. Finally, bringing the trophy that should have been here since 1966. That was what we were all hoping for.

But this is the typical knee-jerk reaction. We've achieved with this man what all others couldn't, before him. We joined the club of the big boys with that Euro.

I would give him the chance to lead us to the next Euro. He more than earned it. I certainly don't want to go back to the times of António Oliveira or that spastic of Queiroz.

As for that star over our badge: we'll have it, one day. I'm certain of it.

It's not knee jerk. I wanted him out before the world cup even started. This should be the end of a cycle. We surfed the 2016 wave for as long as we could and perhaps for longer than we should have.

Knowing the FPF though, they we will take Santos to 2020 and that is a mistake. Motivational speeches work for as long as they do an that's pretty much all Santos has got, which could never be a middle/long term solution. The resemblance to Rui Vitoria is scary.

Rui Jorge should step up now. He has done a great job with the u21 side for 7 years now. Our u21 don't even play with a striker these days as we lack quality in that position but he has found a way around it. That tells me he's far from tactically inept.

He needs to go because we badly need to both change the way we play, and to rejuvenate the squad - which someone like Rui Jorge would also be the best man to do it.

If not Rui Jorge, I'm thinking of Vilas Boas, Paulo Sousa or even Jorge Jesus. If nothing else, Jesus would makes us play some proper football.

[Machado]

On 01/07/2018 at 09:42, SirBalon said:

Because under Fernando Santos the tactic from my point of view was "don't worry guys, trust me, we'll get through because if we wait it will be inevitable".

You tell me... against Uruguay we played the way we always do, maybe even better than the usual, the difference being that this time around all the luck was on the other side.

This is a man who relies on superstition and on his old, "trusted" players to win games too much.

[Machado]

On 01/07/2018 at 09:42, SirBalon said:

Because under Fernando Santos the tactic from my point of view was "don't worry guys, trust me, we'll get through because if we wait it will be inevitable".

You tell me... against Uruguay we played the way we always do, maybe even better than the usual, the difference being that this time around all the luck was on the other side.

This is a man who relies on superstition and on his old, "trusted" players to win games too much.

The only ones who thrive on this system are the center backs, the goalie and Ronaldo in a good day. I mean, there must be a reason why Pepe and Patricio easily catch everyone's eyes in our games.

Usually our goals come from moments of brilliance like Quaresma's goal or Eder's in 2016. Some other times Ronaldo has his days where he will get things done almost by himself. Very basic stuff.

[Machado]

Seems like I edited my post and it double posted instead of editing the original.

[ASF]

8 hours ago, Machado said:

It's not knee jerk. I wanted him out before the world cup even started. This should be the end of a cycle. We surfed the 2016 wave for as long as we could and perhaps for longer than we should have.

Knowing the FPF though, they we will take Santos to 2020 and that is a mistake. Motivational speeches work for as long as they do an that's pretty much all Santos has got, which could never be a middle/long term solution. The resemblance to Rui Vitoria is scary.

Rui Jorge should step up now. He has done a great job with the u21 side for 7 years now. Our u21 don't even play with a striker these days as we lack quality in that position but he has found a way around it. That tells me he's far from tactically inept.

He needs to go because we badly need to both change the way we play, and to rejuvenate the squad - which someone like Rui Jorge would also be the best man to do it.

If not Rui Jorge, I'm thinking of Vilas Boas, Paulo Sousa or even Jorge Jesus. If nothing else, Jesus would makes us play some proper football.

Rui Jorge would be a good option, the same as AVB.

Jorge Jesus would make us play differently, but he's not as good tactically as Fernando. 

My dream NT manager won't take the bench yet.  Hurry up, José.

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, ASF said:

Rui Jorge would be a good option, the same as AVB.

Jorge Jesus would make us play differently, but he's not as good tactically as Fernando. 

My dream NT manager won't take the bench yet.  Hurry up, José.

do you reckon Jose will manage Portugal one day? If so, reckon he'd win you a World Cup?

[ASF]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

do you reckon Jose will manage Portugal one day? If so, reckon he'd win you a World Cup?

Well, he said back in 2010 that he would like to manage us, one day, and win us an Euro or a WC. Always after he's 60.

I'm not expecting any miracles. It will depend of the pool of players he'll have, to choose from. But I can see us doing well with him. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Jose Mourinho in international football would make me want to boycott the World Cup. I really hope Portugal don't sign him because I'm can't hate them but wouldn't be able to rim Jose making Ronaldo into a defensive midfielder.

Ricardo Quaresma reborne as a fullback doesn't sound entertaining to you?