Everton Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

21 minutes ago, Stan said:

A relegation is never actually desirable but is there a part of you/any Everton fans that feel it could be a case of 1 step back, 2 steps forwards?

Of course, there's never a guarantee you come straight back up. But there's plenty of clubs that have suffered a dreaded relegation and come back stronger. A chance to cut out a lot of deadwood, seek investment, bring through that youth again and go back to a model which became successful. 

I don't know specifics of what Everton's finances are like - would a relegation actually break you?

I can see why some clubs have managed to turn relegation into a "big reset" but I don't think that really applies to us. The owner is already looking to sell the club and moving into the new stadium will transform the club's financial profile because there'll be a huge boost in revenue and there'll no longer be hundreds of millions of outgoings each year in terms of building costs. We should already have a big reset and break the cycle in the summer with a new owner and stadium, even if we end up grinding our way to 16th/17th in a similar manner to the previous two seasons.

Financially, we have a large debt problem. That's historical debt, plus money owed back to 777 Partners that they invested during their failed takeover, and £200m or so owed to the Friedkin Group who paid off the rest of our stadium costs for us and another debt we owed to MSP from their failed takeover. The debt is hundreds of millions and I don't know if anyone even has a reliable estimate of how bad it is, which is why MSP and Friedkin have both entered negotiations to take over, and then walked away once they were granted access to the books. However bad it is, it's bad, and the only parties that are currently interested can just about justify taking over a project saddled with that much debt, because you're buying a Premier League team with a brand new stadium and a reasonably high ceiling. I don't think any of them would be interested in buying a Championship club with hundreds of millions of debt, and I don't know where it would end up leading us if Moshiri couldn't find any buyer at all. So on that front as well, the "maybe relegation would be a good chance to wipe the slate clean and rebuild" doesn't really apply to us.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

I can see why some clubs have managed to turn relegation into a "big reset" but I don't think that really applies to us. The owner is already looking to sell the club and moving into the new stadium will transform the club's financial profile because there'll be a huge boost in revenue and there'll no longer be hundreds of millions of outgoings each year in terms of building costs. We should already have a big reset and break the cycle in the summer with a new owner and stadium, even if we end up grinding our way to 16th/17th in a similar manner to the previous two seasons.

Financially, we have a large debt problem. That's historical debt, plus money owed back to 777 Partners that they invested during their failed takeover, and £200m or so owed to the Friedkin Group who paid off the rest of our stadium costs for us and another debt we owed to MSP from their failed takeover. The debt is hundreds of millions and I don't know if anyone even has a reliable estimate of how bad it is, which is why MSP and Friedkin have both entered negotiations to take over, and then walked away once they were granted access to the books. However bad it is, it's bad, and the only parties that are currently interested can just about justify taking over a project saddled with that much debt, because you're buying a Premier League team with a brand new stadium and a reasonably high ceiling. I don't think any of them would be interested in buying a Championship club with hundreds of millions of debt, and I don't know where it would end up leading us if Moshiri couldn't find any buyer at all. So on that front as well, the "maybe relegation would be a good chance to wipe the slate clean and rebuild" doesn't really apply to us.

Fair enough.

Have Kevin Maguire or Swiss Ramble ever done anything on Everton regarding the finances, and the supposed abyss of debt?

They've always seemed knowledgeable enough when delving into clubs or specific ownership/spending of clubs and comparisons within a league. 

[RandoEFC+]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

Fair enough.

Have Kevin Maguire or Swiss Ramble ever done anything on Everton regarding the finances, and the supposed abyss of debt?

They've always seemed knowledgeable enough when delving into clubs or specific ownership/spending of clubs and comparisons within a league. 

Not recently that I've seen. I know that the figure owed to Friedkin is £200m, 777 I think is slightly more than that, and then we have other debts, some of which are owed to lenders dating back to before Moshiri even bought the club off Kenwright. The debt was bad enough pre-777 and Friedkin that it scared MSP off from a full purchase so I expect the total is in the region of £600m-£800m.

[LFCMike]

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, LFCMike said:

 

In all seriousness, the fella saying "Chris Wilder, fuck off" and "who the fucks he?" is absolutely right

[Stan]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In all seriousness, the fella saying "Chris Wilder, fuck off" and "who the fucks he?" is absolutely right

It is the correct response. 

[RandoEFC+]

Thankfully we've reached the point where Evertonians find our fanbase as funny as Liverpool fans do when things are going badly.

[OrangeKhrush]

I thought Everton had a decent summer window,  but it has gone a bit tits up.   If I recall they started shit last season as well then hit a purple patch. 

[RandoEFC+]

9 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I thought Everton had a decent summer window,  but it has gone a bit tits up.   If I recall they started shit last season as well then hit a purple patch. 

1 point from the first five last season with arguably easier fixtures (Fulham and Wolves at home and Sheff Utd away) before we won at Brentford.

The problem is last season we were unlucky in some of those defeats and just couldn't finish chances. This season you can only really point to Bournemouth as the game we should have won on balance. Brighton and Spurs battered us pretty easily and Villa could have put 4 or 5 past us, it was a freak incident for us to get a 2 goal lead there.

We have a good run of fixtures coming up so Dyche has to show marked improvement in the next two games or we need to cash in a new manager bounce to get some points on the board.