Liverpool 3-1 Man Utd - Sunday 16th December, 2018

[CaaC (John)+]

@Bluebird Hewitt , blame the Rugby Union 

 

 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

8 minutes ago, CaaC - John said:

@Bluebird Hewitt , blame the Rugby Union 

 

 

Avoid it my ass. We've had clashes with the egg plenty of times recently.

[MUFC]

Couldn't watch the game properly live as we had guests, and their kids running around. Have recently watched a re-run of the game. Something stood out from the first half compared to the second half.

The second half Robertson was literally playing as a left winger, he may a swell of owned the left side of Anfield, as he had the freedom down that side. In the first half he never got a sniff, never left his half, why is this? Because young Dalot had him pinned right back, pressured him so he couldn't pass the halfway line. What the reason he took him off at half time?

[RandoEFC+]

I can see both sides to the trophy argument but @SirBalon I can't agree with you on the League Cup. The big clubs do take it seriously, it's just their fourth priority. If they didn't give a shit about it at all you wouldn't see Chelsea, City, United winning it every year. Liverpool should be looking to win the League Cup, as should Spurs. Arsenal have a bit more of an excuse as they've won multiple FA Cups in recent years and can now prioritise getting back into the Champions League.

However right now people can say to Liverpool you've won one trophy since 2006, and they can say something similar to Spurs. Teams that have won one trophy in 10-15 years yet expect to be perceived as genuine contenders by players across Europe can't just ignore the League Cup. Currently both sides can still attract players thanks to their managers being able to sell the project to players, and because both teams are positive and in form, which is also because of the manager. But that doesn't last forever, if Liverpool and or Spurs go another two seasons without winning something, and Real Madrid or Barcelona come knocking for Salah, Kane, Eriksen, Van Dijk, the managers might say to them, "don't leave, we're building something here". The players are well within their rights to say "sorry boss, you said that three years ago and we've won nothing while my mates at Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern, Man City are bringing home 2-3 trophies per season, I've enjoyed playing in a great team but I want to win things".

Winning a League Cup doesn't make an astronomical difference here but at least you can say that it puts you on a route to winning an FA Cup, a title or a Champions League. It puts you one step further in that direction, a significant difference to getting to the end of your first five years at a club and having nothing to show for it other than a huge pile of match reports eulogising over what good football you played.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

I can see both sides to the trophy argument but @SirBalon I can't agree with you on the League Cup. The big clubs do take it seriously, it's just their fourth priority. If they didn't give a shit about it at all you wouldn't see Chelsea, City, United winning it every year. Liverpool should be looking to win the League Cup, as should Spurs. Arsenal have a bit more of an excuse as they've won multiple FA Cups in recent years and can now prioritise getting back into the Champions League.

However right now people can say to Liverpool you've won one trophy since 2006, and they can say something similar to Spurs. Teams that have won one trophy in 10-15 years yet expect to be perceived as genuine contenders by players across Europe can't just ignore the League Cup. Currently both sides can still attract players thanks to their managers being able to sell the project to players, and because both teams are positive and in form, which is also because of the manager. But that doesn't last forever, if Liverpool and or Spurs go another two seasons without winning something, and Real Madrid or Barcelona come knocking for Salah, Kane, Eriksen, Van Dijk, the managers might say to them, "don't leave, we're building something here". The players are well within their rights to say "sorry boss, you said that three years ago and we've won nothing while my mates at Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern, Man City are bringing home 2-3 trophies per season, I've enjoyed playing in a great team but I want to win things".

Winning a League Cup doesn't make an astronomical difference here but at least you can say that it puts you on a route to winning an FA Cup, a title or a Champions League. It puts you one step further in that direction, a significant difference to getting to the end of your first five years at a club and having nothing to show for it other than a huge pile of match reports eulogising over what good football you played.

I understand and appreciate all of that but what I will say is that the players you've mentioned like Salah, Eriksen and maybe even Van Dijk are players that have European giants' eyes on them.  They are currently making the news in foreign sports papers every other week.  They're high profile players and the League Cup isn't something that really does anything at all to their status.  The League Cup practically only gets a mention across the continent as a final result on the day of the final with just a footnote caption and general game stats.  Salah was in the Champions League Final last season individually categorised as one of the marked players to watch.

It's all about football culture which is why I didn't include Harry Kane of the players you cited,. The League Cup has been a mainstay of the English game for a hell of a long time now, so Kane will feel this and added to the lack of honours Spurs have in contemporary times and the pressure I'm sure he's aware off from the British sports media when questioning the lack of substantial advancement in terms of trophies coupled with their coach (Mauricio Pochettino) having that question mark over his worth too. Kane, I'm sure would welcome a possible Wembley victory even if it is the League Cup.

I've mentioned it before... Spain once upon a time had their version of the League Cup (Copa de la Liga) as part of their domestic calendar and if I'm not mistaken, it lasted all of four or five years.  It's just saturated the domestic calendar and the fact it was more than evident that the biggest clubs didn't take it seriously at all meant that it's worth was seriously damaged and finally being disbanded.  With this I'm not saying that because Spain acted in this manner, that this then is the correct way to look at things.  I'm just saying that modern football and how its mechanics work these days with more and more emphasis being put on the few major honours means that clubs act accordingly and new generational young fans proprieties in accordance with the media's conditioning effect on in depth publications.

The respective football authorities consistently expanding the biggest tournaments in any way they can with the Champions League, European Championships and World Cup all seeing major changes so as to include mediocrity into the football festival itself.  Hell, they abolished the European Cup Winners' Cup years back which tells you where priorities and focus lies in the constant evolution of high end football.

The massive clubs in England and even big clubs with a lack of relative success in recent years like Tottentham Hotspur or even your own, Everton, surely understand that the real value of something like the League Cup is totally something insular with absolutely no weight whatsoever outside these borders... This at a time when everything is becoming more and more globalised in the world and everyone feels more included in the happenings of stuff outside one's domestic jurisdiction.

Big status names that play in the English game like, Pogba, Salah, Hazard, Eriksen, De Bruyne, Kanté, Özil (can't believe I've just included him), David Silva, De Gea, Agüero etc... etc... Surely won't give too much of a hooh-hah that a League Cup honour's medal is included in their personal CV.

Finally... If the biggest historically significant domestic cup tournament in the world, The FA CUP has sadly and unfortunately managed to lose protagonism within football's evolution in contemporary times... Imagine where the League Cup lies in the grand scheme of things.