Red Bull Racing & Alpha Tauri Chat

[Tommy]

How do you guys think will Ricciardo fare against Yuki?

[RandoEFC+]

I wouldn't be surprised by Yuki -0.5s or Ricciardo -0.5s at any of the remaining races to be honest.

If Ricciardo comes in and beats Tsunoda straight off the bat in Hungary then that'll do real damage to the latter's career I'd have thought. 

[Panflute]

A nice bit of speculation and sensation, but does anyone else get the feeling that things have been getting a bit tense over at Red Bull during the past couple of races?

I read reports that the moment in Austria where Checo pushed Max onto the grass was the final straw for the Verstappens, and it does seem that ever since that moment, Verstappen is going out of his way to humiliate Pérez. At least, you could view some things in that light, such as him pitting in Austria to take the fastest lap away from Pérez, his bickering with GP over RB pit strategy in Spa and then later in the race apparently driving on the limit (again to the dismay of GP) when he clearly didn't have to, just to demonstrate the pace difference. His body language towards Pérez post-race also seems a bit colder (like in the cooldown room he'll mostly be talking to the driver other than Checo).

It may seem far-fetched but I've said before on the Discord that Max does have this Michael Jordan-like pettiness to him where he will just go out of his way to prove how good he is if he is slighted, doubted or taunted. We've seen earlier that he likes to play mindgames like when he was pointing to the 1 on his car after the Miami race (a win that followed the height of Checo's championship speculations, which no doubt annoyed Max), or even in previous seasons where he'd pull up next to Hamilton behind the safety car in Abu Dhabi 2021 on his new slicks.

If I want to go real Bild conspiracy nut I'll even speculate that RB pulled the trigger on the Ricciardo - De Vries swap following (and because of) the Austria sprint race incident because they wanted to set up Ricciardo to replace Pérez at the end of this season as the Verstappens want an experienced yet non-threatening 2nd driver who can get along with Max. The whole tyre test bullshit was just a cover story for them to justify it.

Maybe it's all BS but I think it's fun to think about these things. 

[MUFC]

1 hour ago, Panflute said:

A nice bit of speculation and sensation, but does anyone else get the feeling that things have been getting a bit tense over at Red Bull during the past couple of races?

I read reports that the moment in Austria where Checo pushed Max onto the grass was the final straw for the Verstappens, and it does seem that ever since that moment, Verstappen is going out of his way to humiliate Pérez. At least, you could view some things in that light, such as him pitting in Austria to take the fastest lap away from Pérez, his bickering with GP over RB pit strategy in Spa and then later in the race apparently driving on the limit (again to the dismay of GP) when he clearly didn't have to, just to demonstrate the pace difference. His body language towards Pérez post-race also seems a bit colder (like in the cooldown room he'll mostly be talking to the driver other than Checo).

It may seem far-fetched but I've said before on the Discord that Max does have this Michael Jordan-like pettiness to him where he will just go out of his way to prove how good he is if he is slighted, doubted or taunted. We've seen earlier that he likes to play mindgames like when he was pointing to the 1 on his car after the Miami race (a win that followed the height of Checo's championship speculations, which no doubt annoyed Max), or even in previous seasons where he'd pull up next to Hamilton behind the safety car in Abu Dhabi 2021 on his new slicks.

If I want to go real Bild conspiracy nut I'll even speculate that RB pulled the trigger on the Ricciardo - De Vries swap following (and because of) the Austria sprint race incident because they wanted to set up Ricciardo to replace Pérez at the end of this season as the Verstappens want an experienced yet non-threatening 2nd driver who can get along with Max. The whole tyre test bullshit was just a cover story for them to justify it.

Maybe it's all BS but I think it's fun to think about these things. 

Where would Checo go if he leaves/is fired?

[Tommy]

47 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Where would Checo go if he leaves/is fired?

To Mexico. 

[Panflute]

59 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Where would Checo go if he leaves/is fired?

Depends on who replaces him. If Ricciardo manages to outpace Tsunoda and get the seat than I could imagine a driver swap since AlphaTauri would still be able to benefit from having an experienced driver for their development. It might also save them from having to buy out Checo since he has a contact until 2024. The fact that they hired De Vries (a 28-year-old driver with a lot of experience) and then Ricciardo for the 2nd AlphaTauri seat tells me they don't want to go with actual rookies anymore. At least until they feel Lawson is ready.

[MUFC]

27 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Depends on who replaces him. If Ricciardo manages to outpace Tsunoda and get the seat than I could imagine a driver swap since AlphaTauri would still be able to benefit from having an experienced driver for their development. It might also save them from having to buy out Checo since he has a contact until 2024. The fact that they hired De Vries (a 28-year-old driver with a lot of experience) and then Ricciardo for the 2nd AlphaTauri seat tells me they don't want to go with actual rookies anymore. At least until they feel Lawson is ready.

If he leaves on bad terms. Would he still want to be part of anything associated with RB?

[Panflute]

3 minutes ago, MUFC said:

If he leaves on bad terms. Would he still want to be part of anything associated with RB?

It depends but in the end he is a professional racing driver and a spot in F1 is the most lucrative job you can get in that field, even if it is with a lesser team. I also don't know how it works contractually since RB can 'loan out' drivers to AlphaTauri. So on paper they would be fulfilling their end of the bargain by providing him with an F1 seat, and if he refuses to play ball, then perhaps that'd mean RB could terminate his contract without having to pay him off. Just speculating of course, but there is probably a reason why Red Bull has so often retained drivers who didn't cut it, either by putting them back in Toro Ross/Alpha Tauri (Kvyat, Gasly) or by making them the RB reserve driver (Albon).

[MUFC]

6 hours ago, Panflute said:

A nice bit of speculation and sensation, but does anyone else get the feeling that things have been getting a bit tense over at Red Bull during the past couple of races?

I read reports that the moment in Austria where Checo pushed Max onto the grass was the final straw for the Verstappens, and it does seem that ever since that moment, Verstappen is going out of his way to humiliate Pérez. At least, you could view some things in that light, such as him pitting in Austria to take the fastest lap away from Pérez, his bickering with GP over RB pit strategy in Spa and then later in the race apparently driving on the limit (again to the dismay of GP) when he clearly didn't have to, just to demonstrate the pace difference. His body language towards Pérez post-race also seems a bit colder (like in the cooldown room he'll mostly be talking to the driver other than Checo).

It may seem far-fetched but I've said before on the Discord that Max does have this Michael Jordan-like pettiness to him where he will just go out of his way to prove how good he is if he is slighted, doubted or taunted. We've seen earlier that he likes to play mindgames like when he was pointing to the 1 on his car after the Miami race (a win that followed the height of Checo's championship speculations, which no doubt annoyed Max), or even in previous seasons where he'd pull up next to Hamilton behind the safety car in Abu Dhabi 2021 on his new slicks.

If I want to go real Bild conspiracy nut I'll even speculate that RB pulled the trigger on the Ricciardo - De Vries swap following (and because of) the Austria sprint race incident because they wanted to set up Ricciardo to replace Pérez at the end of this season as the Verstappens want an experienced yet non-threatening 2nd driver who can get along with Max. The whole tyre test bullshit was just a cover story for them to justify it.

Maybe it's all BS but I think it's fun to think about these things. 

https://www.planetf1.com/news/nico-hulkenberg-visits-red-bull-spa/

[Panflute]

PlanetF1 needs clicks, more at 5.

[Panflute]

I'm gonna do some bold silly season predictions because why not.

During the Dutch GP Helmut Marko made an ominous comment regarding Pérez and his future at RB, along the lines of 'nothing is 100% certain in F1'.

Shortly after, F1 outlets reported Christian Horner as confirming that Pérez will be Verstappen's teammate in 2024 and that it's all done and dusted.

However, I looked up the exact quotes that Horner gave and they seem to be "Pérez will be our driver in 2024" and "Pérez will be in the car", which leave open a lot more possibilities than him being Verstappen's teammate.

So here's my 2 scenarios:

Scenario 1. Ricciardo comes back and outpaces Tsunoda by the end of the season. In this case, RB will do a driver swap, promoting Ricciardo to Red Bull for 2024 and demoting Checo to AlphaTauri.

This would make sense because it gets rid of the very obvious tension between Max and Checo in RB, replacing him with a by now senior driver who seems to have a good relationship with Max while also being no real threat to him.

At the same time, with AlphaTauri copying a lot more from Red Bull next season, having a driver with extensive experience in this year's Red Bull would be very helpful to their development, since teams are allowed to share parts but not allowed to provide them with information on how to extract performance from them.

You might think Checo would not want to drive for AT, but he still has a contract with RB, so this would allow him to keep racing and keep getting a paycheck, while it allows for RB to not having to buy him out (like McLaren did with Ricciardo). So it would make sense for Checo to serve out his contract at AT, and to be replaced with Liam Lawson for 2025. Note how this scenario does not contradict Horner's 2 statements: Checo will still be a Red Bull driver (on loan to AT), and he will still be in 'the' car.

Ricciardo will be in the car for 1-2 seasons, but likely not more, since some lucrative driver options (such as Leclerc and Norris) might become available after 2024/25.

Scenario 2. Ricciardo comes back but does not manage to outpace Tsunoda. In that case, Red Bull would stick with Pérez for 2024, while replacing Ricciardo with Lawson at AlphaTauri.

I do not think that Red Bull intends to promote Tsunoda at all despite his improvement this season. So after the 2024 season, Pérez's contract expires and Red Bull might once again attract a driver from outside the academy. A likely target would be Lando Norris, since Red Bull are not guaranteed a dominant car for 2026 and beyond, and will probably want 2 top-tier drivers to maximize the points in the Constructors. Leclerc's current contract runs through to 2024, so he would be another option.

Thank you for listening to my shower thoughts. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Panflute

[Tommy]

Ayumu Iwasa:

[Panflute]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Ayumu Iwasa:

Surely he's still below Lawson in the pecking order.

After 2024 a lot is possible though. Some drivers might retire, Checo will surely be gone from RB and possibly F1, and maybe Yuki fancies his chances at another team. Yuki is in the twilight zone where RB don't seem keen on promoting him but he's also not looking like the kind of driver to stick around with AT forever. Maybe Aston Martin to keep the Honda love alive?

[Tommy]

[MUFC]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jos-verstappen-red-bull-f1-team-risks-being-torn-apart-if-horner-stays/10582532/

[Tommy]

Jos needs to keep his fucking mouth shut. Piece of shit. 

[DeadLinesman]

He should talk more often when it comes to taking this dirty fucking womanising perve down. 

[Tommy]

3 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

He should talk more often when it comes to taking this dirty fucking womanising perve down. 

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

[DeadLinesman]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

The bloke was shagging Geri whilst his Mrs was pregnant. He’s got previous for being a massive cockend when it comes to women. Those texts are more than enough for me. Totally abusing his position. No means no.

[Tommy]

2 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

The bloke was shagging Geri whilst his Mrs was pregnant. He’s got previous for being a massive cockend when it comes to women. Those texts are more than enough for me. Totally abusing his position. No means no.

The ones I saw looked fake as fuck. 

But yea, if he really did that, you're completely right. 

[nudge+]

The only reason why Horner is still there is because the Thai owners have his back in what seems to be an internal power struggle that's getting out of hand. Whether those texts are real or not, that alleged affair with a subordinate alone would normally be more than enough to get rid of him. Even if consensual, there are always ethical and legal questions about misuse of power and influence. However, the Thai owners surely wouldn't care, given their own history... 

Also, Jos is annoying as fuck though, because he's only playing political games. Someone who has battered women in the past is hardly the right person to be calling someone else out for extramarital affairs and abuse of power.

[MUFC]

I want to watch Max and Geri making love.

[RandoEFC+]

Now Verstappen Sr and Marko making noises about Max going to Mercedes, presumably to put pressure on the powers that be to get rid of Horner.

He's never been likeable and I wouldn't miss him but to be honest my only interest in this is a Red Bull team meltdown that would make the sport interesting again because it's the only way any other teams are getting near them before at least 2026.

[MUFC]

Never ending bollocks!!!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-facing-potential-red-bull-suspension

[RandoEFC+]

Gagging for Adrian Newey to leave that team.