The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

In 1947 the League of Nations Partition plan set out the solution,  It was not Israel that violated that.   It was the Palastinian's that wanted to self determine over Israel and used force force,  that is how it all began.   The "nakbha" was the exodus of Palastinians that chose war against Israel's right to self determination in accordance with the UN partition plan,  if it was about wanting a good life and peace then it would not have made sense to participate in a war of extermination against people that were fresh off the holocaust and post WW2 pogroms,   it was not like they had nowhere to go,  they went to west bank which was designated the Arab territory. 

Hajj Amin Husseini,  the first ruler of Palastine,  last of the Ottoman's very much drove the anti semite rhetoric, he was tied to Hitler and Mousilini and following his fleeing of palastine to escape arrest following a bloody war against the Brits he went to Germany where hitler called him the "perfect Aryan" because of his pale white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes.   In 1944 he presented on German radio;

The Jewish return evoked rampant anti semitism and the worst kind of islamic fundamentalism,  to blame this on Jews is just a cheap shot,  this is a conflict of ideological extermination against people that merely want to be left alone in the ancestral land.  In 2023 nothing changed other than Israel is much stronger than it was in 1947 and it is the Arabs that have moved nowhere.   Would I like a solution?  yes but I am done kidding that this is as simple as asking Israel to accept anything that Hamas wants,  that is weakness that will invite further hostility.   

https://www.meforum.org/5318/hajj-amin-antisemitism

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/hajj-amin-al-husayni-arab-nationalist-and-muslim-leader

There was a good vlog from a ICJ prosecuting advocate,  it was about the West Bank and how there is no real recognition of Palastine and thus Natural Law applies,  ie: he who can hold dominion over land is the owner,  the land became res derelictus when Jordan abandoned it following 1967.   It was a problem the "international community" was aware of and chose to do nothing because they were to busy fucking up Iran. 

The problem is further made bad by the fact that they haven't had anything that resembles a stable government.   If this is a Jew/Arab thing then there would not be 2.5 million Arabs in Israel,  this is down to an ideological war,  10/7 pushed the absolute limits

Judiasm and Levant:  The new age of anti semitism.

https://www.haaretz.com/2010-06-10/ty-article/landmark-study-proves-90-of-jews-are-genetically-linked-to-the-levant/0000017f-e0bb-df7c-a5ff-e2fba5950000

Back in the days when Haaretz was credible,  the study was done following the discovery of 70 skeletal remains in a well escavated in Norwich during the 12th century pogroms compared genetics to ancient skeletal remains from 9th centuary BC Jews and current Jews and there is a 90% correlation.   "Palastinians" are less that 15% genetic correlation.   

https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2013/12/20/new-genetic-study-more-evidence-for-modern-ashkenazi-jews-ancient-hebrew-patrimony/

The marginalisation of Diaspora Jews as not being Jews because we happened to be scattered due to slavery and exile,  our ancestor's were denied citizenship and persecuted as being "landless".   I am Ashkenazi, but my family name is tied to Aaron the brother of Moshe and Mirriam and the first of the line of Kohanim (High Priests).  The Lemba's of Zimbabwe are Jews and decendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel.

Zionism is not a new term and connotes the ideal of the jewish homeland which can only be Zion.   The conjecture on this was that it was meant to only be the right to live in the holy land but under the rule of Arabs,  however that as seen by Al Husseini was never going to end in any way other than the complete and under extinction of Jews and 3500 years of history and culture.  it is 2024 and the weaponisation of media to use language as a weapon is giving rise to new escalation of anti semitism and support for an ideology that have the complete massacre of jews as the main goal is indicative of the slippery slope society is in.   

Lebanon Strike: 

Lebanon or at least Hezbollah professed to having S400 systems,  they have s300's since 2016 and there is not that much difference between the s300 and s400,  in the end it would not make any difference,  the system should theoretically have at very least caused some degree of alertness given that the attack comprised mostly of F16 Block 30's and F15 I (basically a F15 A which is retrofitted with Israeli avionics to use Israeli weapon platforms such as the SPICE, Spike and I-Derby),  these are all Gen 4.5 fighters that are not low radar detection aircraft,  fully laden it should show up on even soviet era radar. 

https://ryanmcbeth.substack.com/p/why-striking-lebanon-is-different?r=20h0ql&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true

It is a good take on why Iran don't want no beef,  why Hezbollah have cold feet and why the Lebanon Government is very much interested in a war that would weaken Hezbollah to the point of driving them out,  Hezbollah won't be able to use citizens as collateral either,  civilians can move north under the blanket of the Lebanon Government's protection,  it may be a chance for Lebanon to be liberated. 

 

The League of Nations?  No. The UN, which was newly formed. I strongly urge you to actually learn the history of this conflict - it is nowhere near as black and white as you think it is.

Follow the lesson of the Germans post-WW2. You can only truly move on from the worst parts of your history when you recognise them, accept them, and try to atone for the crimes of the past by better actions in the future. Don't get me wrong, Palestinians and Arabs also need to learn this lesson. But it's insane to pretend Israel have been innocent little angels the whole time. They very clearly haven't been.

Your first paragraph is an absolutely wild revision of history. 29/11/1947 is when the General Assembly passed the UN Partition Plan for Palestine. At the time, Arabs made up 2/3 of the population of the territory - owning 90% of the land. Jews made up 1/4-1/3 of the population (because you can't forget there are Christians who've been there for centuries & Druze who've been there as well). They owned 7% of the land.

The UN partition allocated the Jewish population 55% of the land. Jerusalem and Bethlehem were meant to be internationally governed with a population of 100,000 Arabs and 100,000 Jews. The partition was rejected by the Arab League.

Why did the Arab league reject the UN's partition? Interestingly enough, because the UN partition plan, pretty reasonably, was viewed as violating the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter. We are talking about a territory where the majority of the population are Palestinian Arabs, who owned 90% of the land of that territory. Why is Israeli sovereignty meant to be inherently respected - but Palestinian sovereignty prior to Israel's creation is flatly rejected.

It again begs the question, why were Arab Palestinians the ones who were chosen by the international community to pay for the centuries of crimes Europeans commit against Jews, ultimately ending with the Holocaust?

Furthermore the 1948 Palestine War was not started by Arab invaders of Israel. First there was a "civil war" running from 1947-1948, while the UK was still in power - this began on 30/11/1979 (if you're still paying attention, this is the day after the partition plan vote). In this war there's skirmishes of both Palestinian and Zionist gangs I think we'd best describe as terrorists, with the UK occassionally getting involved to calm things down the violence between both extremist sides. In April of 1948, the Zionist forces went on the offensive - if you want to read more about it, google: Plan Dalet.

Arab armies did invade in 1948 - when British rule over Palestine ended and the declaration of the establishment of the State of Israel, which again... was reasonably viewed as a violation of Palestinian self-determination.

The Nakba followed. But just to make things clear: Arab countries invading DOES NOT IN ANY WAY JUSTIFY THE VIOLENT EXPULSION OF 80% OF THE ARAB CIVILIAN POPULATION IN THE REGION. While Israel defended itself from Arab invaders, the Nakba marks their war on Palestinian civilians. Villages were massacred.

FURTHERMORE THE NAKBA CONTINUED AFTER THE END OF THE WAR. Most famously when the IDF conducted Operation Shoshana, a unit led by Ariel Sharon, conducted the Qibya massacre in the West Bank. Ariel Sharon wrote that he ordered "maximal killing and damage to property." They deliberately targeted a civilian population, and Israel framed it as a response to an attack where 3 people died - as though that somehow justified killing 69 civilians, 2/3 of them being women and children. This was years after the war had ended.

I am someone who thinks Israel does have the right to exist in 2024 - especially as an British-Iranian. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that stands with the Iranian people against the Iranian government - and has done so since the Iran-Iraq war (where they thought if they armed Khomeini's forces, Iran and Israel could still have good relations... naively)...  but having historic ties to a land thousands of years ago does not give you the right to take away sovereignty for the people who'd been living there in between when your ancestors left and today. It doesn't justify horrific human rights abuses.

Those of us on here who are English can't just roll up to Denmark and say "we've got ties to this land because our ancestors came from Denmark" and then brutally suppress the Danes, then if Sweden and Finland try to help their fellow norsemen out we just use this as further justification to take things out on the Danish population.

If you are done kidding that "Israel just should accept what Hamas wants" - then learn the fucking history of this conflict. It is so far from a black and white scenario. The history of Israel's creation is shocking and ultimately was rooted in Europe's guilt for how centuries of crimes against Jews had led to the Holocaust... with a dash of antisemitism (give European Jews a home... but make sure it's not in Europe and away from us), with a bit of optimistic hopefulness of a sort of final crusade.

And again, at the end of the day, trying to look at this through the optics of: these are good guys, these are bad guys... it's just stupid as fuck.

Once again: they are both bad. Hamas are unequivocally terrorists. But let's not pretend Israel's foundation wasn't marked with Israeli terrorists like Ariel Sharon - who has a past where he's done the same fucking things as the 7/10/23 attackers did. And once again... he was elected to be Israel's PM.

Hamas wants to exterminate Jews. Israel is exterminating Palestinians and has a history of doing so since 1948.

[OrangeKhrush]

On 29/08/2024 at 02:17, Dr. Gonzo said:

The League of Nations?  No. The UN, which was newly formed. I strongly urge you to actually learn the history of this conflict - it is nowhere near as black and white as you think it is.

Follow the lesson of the Germans post-WW2. You can only truly move on from the worst parts of your history when you recognise them, accept them, and try to atone for the crimes of the past by better actions in the future. Don't get me wrong, Palestinians and Arabs also need to learn this lesson. But it's insane to pretend Israel have been innocent little angels the whole time. They very clearly haven't been.

Your first paragraph is an absolutely wild revision of history. 29/11/1947 is when the General Assembly passed the UN Partition Plan for Palestine. At the time, Arabs made up 2/3 of the population of the territory - owning 90% of the land. Jews made up 1/4-1/3 of the population (because you can't forget there are Christians who've been there for centuries & Druze who've been there as well). They owned 7% of the land.

The UN partition allocated the Jewish population 55% of the land. Jerusalem and Bethlehem were meant to be internationally governed with a population of 100,000 Arabs and 100,000 Jews. The partition was rejected by the Arab League.

Why did the Arab league reject the UN's partition? Interestingly enough, because the UN partition plan, pretty reasonably, was viewed as violating the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter. We are talking about a territory where the majority of the population are Palestinian Arabs, who owned 90% of the land of that territory. Why is Israeli sovereignty meant to be inherently respected - but Palestinian sovereignty prior to Israel's creation is flatly rejected.

It again begs the question, why were Arab Palestinians the ones who were chosen by the international community to pay for the centuries of crimes Europeans commit against Jews, ultimately ending with the Holocaust?

Furthermore the 1948 Palestine War was not started by Arab invaders of Israel. First there was a "civil war" running from 1947-1948, while the UK was still in power - this began on 30/11/1979 (if you're still paying attention, this is the day after the partition plan vote). In this war there's skirmishes of both Palestinian and Zionist gangs I think we'd best describe as terrorists, with the UK occassionally getting involved to calm things down the violence between both extremist sides. In April of 1948, the Zionist forces went on the offensive - if you want to read more about it, google: Plan Dalet.

Arab armies did invade in 1948 - when British rule over Palestine ended and the declaration of the establishment of the State of Israel, which again... was reasonably viewed as a violation of Palestinian self-determination.

The Nakba followed. But just to make things clear: Arab countries invading DOES NOT IN ANY WAY JUSTIFY THE VIOLENT EXPULSION OF 80% OF THE ARAB CIVILIAN POPULATION IN THE REGION. While Israel defended itself from Arab invaders, the Nakba marks their war on Palestinian civilians. Villages were massacred.

FURTHERMORE THE NAKBA CONTINUED AFTER THE END OF THE WAR. Most famously when the IDF conducted Operation Shoshana, a unit led by Ariel Sharon, conducted the Qibya massacre in the West Bank. Ariel Sharon wrote that he ordered "maximal killing and damage to property." They deliberately targeted a civilian population, and Israel framed it as a response to an attack where 3 people died - as though that somehow justified killing 69 civilians, 2/3 of them being women and children. This was years after the war had ended.

I am someone who thinks Israel does have the right to exist in 2024 - especially as an British-Iranian. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that stands with the Iranian people against the Iranian government - and has done so since the Iran-Iraq war (where they thought if they armed Khomeini's forces, Iran and Israel could still have good relations... naively)...  but having historic ties to a land thousands of years ago does not give you the right to take away sovereignty for the people who'd been living there in between when your ancestors left and today. It doesn't justify horrific human rights abuses.

Those of us on here who are English can't just roll up to Denmark and say "we've got ties to this land because our ancestors came from Denmark" and then brutally suppress the Danes, then if Sweden and Finland try to help their fellow norsemen out we just use this as further justification to take things out on the Danish population.

If you are done kidding that "Israel just should accept what Hamas wants" - then learn the fucking history of this conflict. It is so far from a black and white scenario. The history of Israel's creation is shocking and ultimately was rooted in Europe's guilt for how centuries of crimes against Jews had led to the Holocaust... with a dash of antisemitism (give European Jews a home... but make sure it's not in Europe and away from us), with a bit of optimistic hopefulness of a sort of final crusade.

And again, at the end of the day, trying to look at this through the optics of: these are good guys, these are bad guys... it's just stupid as fuck.

Once again: they are both bad. Hamas are unequivocally terrorists. But let's not pretend Israel's foundation wasn't marked with Israeli terrorists like Ariel Sharon - who has a past where he's done the same fucking things as the 7/10/23 attackers did. And once again... he was elected to be Israel's PM.

Hamas wants to exterminate Jews. Israel is exterminating Palestinians and has a history of doing so since 1948.

1) in an 1820 census the holyland had a population under 50 000,  most lived in the bigger cities however the area was barren and disease plagued.  It is only following the 1882 third Aliyah that Jews started rejuvenation of the the region,  the growing Jewish population brought medicinal reform and agricultural reforms that gave rise to the increase in populations.    Many Arabs from Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt,  what was to become Jordan and Iraq,  Syria came in,  those that have anything beyond 1 or 2 generations in the holy land have traditional family names of aforementioned places. 

2) the mandate of Palestine was not meant to be a democratic process,  it was a subdivision of the holy land into an Arab and Jewish part with the right to self determination in regard to those parts,   in terms of the territory the Negev which is about 70% of the region is completely infertile inhabited by the traditional tribes,  there are no major cities in the Negev,  Be'erSheva is the last stop between civilization,  the desert and Eilat.    If you cut the Negev out and you consider the apportionment the Arabs would have gotten about 66% of the useable land. 

3) Yes the British Empire still controlled the region until 1948 however they faced civil uprising in both Jewish and Arab Palastine,  it is very insignificant on whether self determination allows you to self determine over another sovereign people.   It was in 1922 that the Arab Brotherhood decided to get together and decide that Jews were not allowed,  like that was something they ever had the right to decide on given that post WW1 saw the creation of numerous "Arab" states without there being "self determination"  Iraq for instance had majorities that included; Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians, and Turkmens, with minorities of Persians, Yezidis, Jews, Mandaeans, Shabaks, Armenians, and Kawliyah in a total population of under 3 million.  The Arabs took it all and decided to do rather questionable stuff with the rest. 

4) Israel is not innocent in the sense of failing to have a day after plan,  however in terms of good guys and bad guys there is absolutely no moral conundrum between Israel and Hamas,  Hamas have killed more Palestinians and as per Haniyah before he was offed "we need more Palestinians to die" is not morally grey in any way.    In UN disputes and allegations the SC sends in investigations to determine the claims,  to this date they have not found proof other than hearsay evidence of deliberate and intentional killing of civilians so as to meet the requirements of ethnic cleansing.   The UN released their population census for 2024 between October 7 and April 2024 the Palestinian population saw its largest population growth.    What the investigation has found is that allegations are predicated on Israel taking out Hamas militants that results in collateral which is neither a war crime or deliberate act of genocide,  there are no pits of bodies that were summarily executed circa Iran 1979 or Bosnia 90's or death camps circa The Armenian Genocide and Holocaust of Jews, Communists and Gypsies.    

I will say that there are a couple of instances that are cringe and may lead to some trouble and anyone found guilty for it fully deserves to go to prison for life,  that being said the security council investigators have found that Hamas are guilty of nearly all war crimes that includes;  violation on laws relating to operation of militant activities in a civilian population with Intent to use that population as a speed bump,  violation of Geneva conventions on military uniforms,  invasion of a sovereign state leading to deliberate and intentional targeting of the civilian population.   Getting rid of Hamas is certainly a step in getting a "free Palastine". 

5) I will agree that at some point dialogue with people that really want peace will be needed,  but to think that will be Hamas is ludicrous.   Hamas are somewhat realing.   While it will be nearly impossible to kill an ideology,  it can be significantly damaged and weakened.   The launched a solitary rocket yesterday which tends to support the proof that Hamas are running out of bodies.   International bodies feel that the Hamas dead is somewhere between 17000 and 22000 while Hamas continue to lie and claim only 4000 while Sinwar seeks a resolution that he will not be targeted while committing yet another war crime by barricading himself in with 22 hostages (exposing hostages to danger is the war crime).   It is safe to assume that if there is any chance for him to be taken out without risk to the hostages he will join the list. 

West Bank:

Arab media hit the west hard by skewing the truth of the west bank operations,  despite the IDF killing around 7 combatants from Hamas including another high ranked officer and the bodies, guns, money and plans were all broadcasted.   Arab media sold it as civilians as per but the reality is that mostly combatants were killed. 

There has been a tipoff by the US that Hamas has infiltrated at low level into the west bank through egypt and qatar,  these people are very happy to let "civilians" pay the price for hostilities despite the west bank having ample open ground to conduct war time activities.   the trend of using civilians as the buffer is deplorable to put mildly. 

 

 

[Spike]

@Dr. Gonzosyncretic soil magic.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

the mandate of Palestine was not meant to be a democratic process,  it was a subdivision of the holy land into an Arab and Jewish part with the right to self determination in regard to those parts

Right... and it wasn't accepted by Palestinians or the Arab League because of the reasonable belief that it was violating the principles of national self-determination under the UN Charter. The fact it was an undemocratic process that was forced on Palestinians doesn't change that.

If Israel wants Palestinians to be okay with the partition, step 1 is treating them like they're humans. That means: Israelis actually learning the history of the Nakba and instead of coming up with excuses for why it was justifiable, come to terms with this very dark chapter of it's history; ending the policy of illegal settlements into the West Bank; showing the same kind of restraint and precision that is shown to foreign enemies like Iran when dealing with Palestinian terror threats.

And say what you will but: raping POWs and bombing refugee camps where hundreds are injured and killed to target 1 or 2 militants (and they know this will be the collateral damage) are certainly war crimes. Hamas obviously commits war crimes - they are a heinous terror group. Israel must be held to a higher standard than a terror group as a sovereign nation, a democracy, and a close western partner. Israelis and pro-Israel supporters should welcome being held to a higher standard and they themselves should do what they can to ensure that Israel's government and the IDF maintain higher standards.

You can't seriously point to the horrible things a heinous terror group does and say "well we're not as bad as them" and expect it to be okay. The world expects Israel to operate at a higher standard than a vile terror group, not to point at their disgusting enemy and say "well this justifies my own war crimes." Nothing justifies war crimes.

Shit like this is why the international community needs to be involved, imo, and the peace should be kept by UN Peacekeepers. Too many Palestinians and Israelis are too far gone, the rhetoric of their diehard supporters online indicates how far gone they truly are, they're not interested in any longstanding peace. They're interested in one side having a total victory.

[Azeem]

According Camp David, Israel can't have troops in the corridor but Nethanyahu is refusing to pull IDF out from there bcz Egypt is channelling weapons from there, allegedly according to him. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Hey do any of these talking points from above look familiar?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_denial#

Shameful.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Hey do any of these talking points from above look familiar?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_denial#

Shameful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_of_Israel

[6666]

On 30/08/2024 at 16:47, OrangeKhrush said:

1) in an 1820 census the holyland had a population under 50 000,  most lived in the bigger cities however the area was barren and disease plagued.  It is only following the 1882 third Aliyah that Jews started rejuvenation of the the region,  the growing Jewish population brought medicinal reform and agricultural reforms that gave rise to the increase in populations.    Many Arabs from Tunisia, Algeria, Egypt,  what was to become Jordan and Iraq,  Syria came in,  those that have anything beyond 1 or 2 generations in the holy land have traditional family names of aforementioned places. 

2) the mandate of Palestine was not meant to be a democratic process,  it was a subdivision of the holy land into an Arab and Jewish part with the right to self determination in regard to those parts,   in terms of the territory the Negev which is about 70% of the region is completely infertile inhabited by the traditional tribes,  there are no major cities in the Negev,  Be'erSheva is the last stop between civilization,  the desert and Eilat.    If you cut the Negev out and you consider the apportionment the Arabs would have gotten about 66% of the useable land. 

3) Yes the British Empire still controlled the region until 1948 however they faced civil uprising in both Jewish and Arab Palastine,  it is very insignificant on whether self determination allows you to self determine over another sovereign people.   It was in 1922 that the Arab Brotherhood decided to get together and decide that Jews were not allowed,  like that was something they ever had the right to decide on given that post WW1 saw the creation of numerous "Arab" states without there being "self determination"  Iraq for instance had majorities that included; Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians, and Turkmens, with minorities of Persians, Yezidis, Jews, Mandaeans, Shabaks, Armenians, and Kawliyah in a total population of under 3 million.  The Arabs took it all and decided to do rather questionable stuff with the rest. 

4) Israel is not innocent in the sense of failing to have a day after plan,  however in terms of good guys and bad guys there is absolutely no moral conundrum between Israel and Hamas,  Hamas have killed more Palestinians and as per Haniyah before he was offed "we need more Palestinians to die" is not morally grey in any way.    In UN disputes and allegations the SC sends in investigations to determine the claims,  to this date they have not found proof other than hearsay evidence of deliberate and intentional killing of civilians so as to meet the requirements of ethnic cleansing.   The UN released their population census for 2024 between October 7 and April 2024 the Palestinian population saw its largest population growth.    What the investigation has found is that allegations are predicated on Israel taking out Hamas militants that results in collateral which is neither a war crime or deliberate act of genocide,  there are no pits of bodies that were summarily executed circa Iran 1979 or Bosnia 90's or death camps circa The Armenian Genocide and Holocaust of Jews, Communists and Gypsies.    

I will say that there are a couple of instances that are cringe and may lead to some trouble and anyone found guilty for it fully deserves to go to prison for life,  that being said the security council investigators have found that Hamas are guilty of nearly all war crimes that includes;  violation on laws relating to operation of militant activities in a civilian population with Intent to use that population as a speed bump,  violation of Geneva conventions on military uniforms,  invasion of a sovereign state leading to deliberate and intentional targeting of the civilian population.   Getting rid of Hamas is certainly a step in getting a "free Palastine". 

5) I will agree that at some point dialogue with people that really want peace will be needed,  but to think that will be Hamas is ludicrous.   Hamas are somewhat realing.   While it will be nearly impossible to kill an ideology,  it can be significantly damaged and weakened.   The launched a solitary rocket yesterday which tends to support the proof that Hamas are running out of bodies.   International bodies feel that the Hamas dead is somewhere between 17000 and 22000 while Hamas continue to lie and claim only 4000 while Sinwar seeks a resolution that he will not be targeted while committing yet another war crime by barricading himself in with 22 hostages (exposing hostages to danger is the war crime).   It is safe to assume that if there is any chance for him to be taken out without risk to the hostages he will join the list. 

West Bank:

Arab media hit the west hard by skewing the truth of the west bank operations,  despite the IDF killing around 7 combatants from Hamas including another high ranked officer and the bodies, guns, money and plans were all broadcasted.   Arab media sold it as civilians as per but the reality is that mostly combatants were killed. 

There has been a tipoff by the US that Hamas has infiltrated at low level into the west bank through egypt and qatar,  these people are very happy to let "civilians" pay the price for hostilities despite the west bank having ample open ground to conduct war time activities.   the trend of using civilians as the buffer is deplorable to put mildly. 

With how Israel considers anyone fighting back against them as "Hamas", and any random Palestinian they kill as "Hamas", I can't say Israel has any credibility when they speak. Especially with their endless, moronic lies and their boasting over war crimes. The Mossad account on twitter, as well as other official Israeli government accounts, is genuinely like if Hitler had a social media account.

Israeli settlers have always been an issue and just like IDF terrorists, they've seen an opportunity to severely increase the victimisation of Palestinians.

Israel has committed war crimes since its inception, has mercilessly murdered Palestinians since its inception, has targeted kids since its inception, has raped and justified rape since its inception, has kidnapped 1000s of Palestinians since its inception, and has pretended to be victims the whole way through.

Israeli extremists, such as yourself, are genuinely disgusting people.

[MUFC]

13 hours ago, 6666 said:

With how Israel considers anyone fighting back against them as "Hamas", and any random Palestinian they kill as "Hamas", I can't say Israel has any credibility when they speak. Especially with their endless, moronic lies and their boasting over war crimes. The Mossad account on twitter, as well as other official Israeli government accounts, is genuinely like if Hitler had a social media account.

Israeli settlers have always been an issue and just like IDF terrorists, they've seen an opportunity to severely increase the victimisation of Palestinians.

Israel has committed war crimes since its inception, has mercilessly murdered Palestinians since its inception, has targeted kids since its inception, has raped and justified rape since its inception, has kidnapped 1000s of Palestinians since its inception, and has pretended to be victims the whole way through.

Israeli extremists, such as yourself, are genuinely disgusting people.

 

[6666]

The terrorist IDF soldiers now freely being psycho in the West Bank. Looking for any excuse to kill Palestinians and if they don't find one, they'll kill someone anyway.

Completely insane, murderous military.

[Azeem]

 

[OrangeKhrush]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/07/bbc-breached-guidelines-more-1500-times-israel-hamas-war/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/07/bbc-bias-sickening-to-british-jews-israel-gaza-hamas-war/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-08/ty-article/report-accuses-bbc-of-anti-israel-bias-during-war-in-gaza/00000191-d1cb-d214-a393-d5fb39460000

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2024/09/08/the-bbc-cannot-ignore-this-evidence-of-bias/

Articles on the BBC's breach of Journalistic integrity and skewering of information so as to distort public perception.

Simon Whistler from Warographics did a video on the "death toll" of Gaza and highlighted the the stark differences between one report that went through every death,  removed duplications and unconfirmed persons and the death toll is closer to 28000 and that includes militants which make up somewhere between 15000 and 20000 of that number.    

It is all smoke and mirrors,  they are relying on dishonest actors in the media world to spread anti sentiment.  

Hamas wants the Philadelphi corridor back and withdrawal for a ceasefire,  I guess there is going to be no ceasefire then.   When Palastinians decide that Hamas is not for them,  and make a move for positive change,  then there can be talks,  there can be no negotiating with a terror group.   They are now into the next phase of desperation,   executing hostages another war crime that the UN seems to be silent about. 

[OrangeKhrush]

On 05/09/2024 at 21:51, 6666 said:

With how Israel considers anyone fighting back against them as "Hamas", and any random Palestinian they kill as "Hamas", I can't say Israel has any credibility when they speak. Especially with their endless, moronic lies and their boasting over war crimes. The Mossad account on twitter, as well as other official Israeli government accounts, is genuinely like if Hitler had a social media account.

Israeli settlers have always been an issue and just like IDF terrorists, they've seen an opportunity to severely increase the victimisation of Palestinians.

Israel has committed war crimes since its inception, has mercilessly murdered Palestinians since its inception, has targeted kids since its inception, has raped and justified rape since its inception, has kidnapped 1000s of Palestinians since its inception, and has pretended to be victims the whole way through.

Israeli extremists, such as yourself, are genuinely disgusting people.

In a report released in May,  had Hamas winning by nearly Putinesque numbers,   at some point you can safely say they are in support of Hamas and that includes the west bank where the PLO who was charged with governance have spent 40 odd years lining their pockets at the expense of the people they were supposed to govern.    Hamas were able to spread their ideology because of the failings of the PLO and now it is basically second to third generation indoctrination. 

After the 67 war,  the territory of the West Bank formally under Jordan had no claimant and remains disputed territory,  I don't agree with the rapid expansion and that their needs to be a ceasing of all movement until their can be formal meetings with an agreement on what is "Palastine",  that cannot happen under Hamas or any other Jihadi group. 

You don't start trouble,  get pushed back and play victim,  it is all self inflicted and the number of militants in Gaza is insane,  it is a militant enclave and why Israel needs to now destroy the Philidelphi corridor and the subterranean tunnels going into the Sinai and establish a new line to ensure nothing other than essentials go into Gaza,   every consignment gets checked and weapons or components that may make weapons get confiscated.   Per the latest report around 3 years of food and supplies have passed into Gaza,  but without the UN and Israel not taking responsibility for distribution it is being stolen by Hamas who are holding gazans as media fodder for their next aggression. 

 

[Spike]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

In a report released in May,  had Hamas winning by nearly Putinesque numbers,   at some point you can safely say they are in support of Hamas and that includes the west bank where the PLO who was charged with governance have spent 40 odd years lining their pockets at the expense of the people they were supposed to govern.    Hamas were able to spread their ideology because of the failings of the PLO and now it is basically second to third generation indoctrination. 

After the 67 war,  the territory of the West Bank formally under Jordan had no claimant and remains disputed territory,  I don't agree with the rapid expansion and that their needs to be a ceasing of all movement until their can be formal meetings with an agreement on what is "Palastine",  that cannot happen under Hamas or any other Jihadi group. 

You don't start trouble,  get pushed back and play victim,  it is all self inflicted and the number of militants in Gaza is insane,  it is a militant enclave and why Israel needs to now destroy the Philidelphi corridor and the subterranean tunnels going into the Sinai and establish a new line to ensure nothing other than essentials go into Gaza,   every consignment gets checked and weapons or components that may make weapons get confiscated.   Per the latest report around 3 years of food and supplies have passed into Gaza,  but without the UN and Israel not taking responsibility for distribution it is being stolen by Hamas who are holding gazans as media fodder for their next aggression. 

 

You give the impression of a man that blames clothing choices when a woman is raped.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

You don't start trouble,  get pushed back and play victim,  it is all self inflicted

Goes both ways though…

[Azeem]

 

[6666]

On 09/09/2024 at 11:34, OrangeKhrush said:

In a report released in May,  had Hamas winning by nearly Putinesque numbers,   at some point you can safely say they are in support of Hamas and that includes the west bank where the PLO who was charged with governance have spent 40 odd years lining their pockets at the expense of the people they were supposed to govern.    Hamas were able to spread their ideology because of the failings of the PLO and now it is basically second to third generation indoctrination. 

After the 67 war,  the territory of the West Bank formally under Jordan had no claimant and remains disputed territory,  I don't agree with the rapid expansion and that their needs to be a ceasing of all movement until their can be formal meetings with an agreement on what is "Palastine",  that cannot happen under Hamas or any other Jihadi group. 

You don't start trouble,  get pushed back and play victim,  it is all self inflicted and the number of militants in Gaza is insane,  it is a militant enclave and why Israel needs to now destroy the Philidelphi corridor and the subterranean tunnels going into the Sinai and establish a new line to ensure nothing other than essentials go into Gaza,   every consignment gets checked and weapons or components that may make weapons get confiscated.   Per the latest report around 3 years of food and supplies have passed into Gaza,  but without the UN and Israel not taking responsibility for distribution it is being stolen by Hamas who are holding gazans as media fodder for their next aggression. 

It's crazy that pro-Israelis will be completely fine with killing, raping, torturing, kidnapping, and oppressing Palestinians for decades but will then start talking about Palestinians "starting trouble" whenever they stand up for themselves. No shame.

Israel is a failed experiment that should never have started.

[6666]

8 hours ago, Azeem said:

 

The way they've embraced and celebrated rape is something I've never seen or heard about before. Their soldiers do it, their soldiers are proud of doing it, their soldiers brag about doing it, and they're somehow heroes. Insane.

[6666]

No reason for it other than IDF terrorists just doing what IDF terrorists do.

 

[Azeem]

This is Tom & Jerry stuff

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 10/09/2024 at 07:40, 6666 said:

The way they've embraced and celebrated rape is something I've never seen or heard about before. Their soldiers do it, their soldiers are proud of doing it, their soldiers brag about doing it, and they're somehow heroes. Insane.

Their proud ally Azerbaijan (who weirdly have closest ties with Turkey... who seem to hate Israel) has a history of celebrating rape and war crimes too. Maybe they learned it from them and saw the recent treatment of the Armenians they just displaced from Nagorno-Karabagh.

[Azeem]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Their proud ally Azerbaijan (who weirdly have closest ties with Turkey... who seem to hate Israel) has a history of celebrating rape and war crimes too. Maybe they learned it from them and saw the recent treatment of the Armenians they just displaced from Nagorno-Karabagh.

Yeah Azerbaijan is so random in geopolitics. Although the country is secular and not that religious it is still Shia Muslim majority but has bad relations with only other Shia majority country around it, Iran. They are very close to Israel but also in the Turkish camp who all despise Israel lol

[Azeem]

 

[Azeem]

IDF offering African Jewish folks accelerated pathway to permanent residency if they join the war in Gaza who historically have faced more obstacles and scrutiny for PR. 

Tbh Israel isn't the only one, other countries with shortage of manpower also do that or at least thinking of doing that because young people now don't see military as an attractive option more like a last resort