Dr. Gonzo 8,187 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Israel really doesn't help itself - does it? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/30/israel-forces-disguised-women-medics-storm-hospital-jenin-west-bank Disguising as doctors to kill wounded combatants being treated in a hospital is a combo war crime. I think the worst part of it is dressing as doctors, because that's just going to risk the lives of Palestinian doctors in the future now that terrorists aren't going to be sure who's actually a doctor and who's an Israeli soldier. The next worst thing about it is... they very easily could have arrested these people. Instead they executed them in hospital beds. On the one hand, this is better than things like the indiscriminate bombing of places. Or targeting a hospital to kill 3 known terrorists while risking the lives of hundreds of innocents. On the other hand, this will make life very tough for Palestinian doctors in the West Bank - and I have a feeling that life is tough already for anybody on the West Bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted February 3 Author Share Posted February 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,187 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 This kind of propaganda hitting the UK is pretty concerning Khamenei's probably so pleased he's got people in the west calling him the leader of the Muslim world though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 17 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: This kind of propaganda hitting the UK is pretty concerning Khamenei's probably so pleased he's got people in the west calling him the leader of the Muslim world though. Which is so far from reality. IR already has a negative reputation in any Middle Eastern countries for the proxy wars and they spoiled the recent support they were getting after Oct 7 by striking countries like Pakistan which they never really had any hostilities with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma 1,766 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 12/01/2024 at 17:18, Dr. Gonzo said: Well they came around before the Romans and the Romans kept their food. And spaghetti is close enough to prototype lasagna (which was probably very weird since they had no fucking idea what tomatos were). I'd like to explore this new angle the thread has taken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 Israel now bombing Rafah crossing with Egypt after it told Palestinians to move there for safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Don't know what level of naive you'd have to be to genuinely suggest Israel has done anything they've done simply to defend themselves. Scum of the earth hell bent on genocide since way before October. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 296 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 This is now causing a cataclysmic shift in NATO states that seemed to be fine with war escalation when it was helping them politically and economically and now they back track. The only solutions are ceasefire to both wars, sure the terms will be tough to negotiate however it is now getting to the point where it looks like the west are pushing war. For Joe Biden it is almost certainly the straw that broke the camels back with his popularity in a death spiral it is almost likely that Donald Trump will succeed and for the middle east he is much better than Biden and the Waring brigands. Labour seemed to have a free ride and now they are deciding to shoot themselves in the foot and looking more like penny store Tories. The trend is rippling through the western world and it now needs an intervention. For Netanyahu he has been enabled like Zelensky, both men without a political future doing what is necessary to cling to power despite internal civil unrest. Part of terms of peace would be netenyahu and Likud being expelled from political affiliation. Their is a problem with candidates, Yair Lapid maybe I don't know that is up to Israeli voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,187 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 9 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said: This is now causing a cataclysmic shift in NATO states that seemed to be fine with war escalation when it was helping them politically and economically and now they back track. The only solutions are ceasefire to both wars, sure the terms will be tough to negotiate however it is now getting to the point where it looks like the west are pushing war. For Joe Biden it is almost certainly the straw that broke the camels back with his popularity in a death spiral it is almost likely that Donald Trump will succeed and for the middle east he is much better than Biden and the Waring brigands. Labour seemed to have a free ride and now they are deciding to shoot themselves in the foot and looking more like penny store Tories. The trend is rippling through the western world and it now needs an intervention. For Netanyahu he has been enabled like Zelensky, both men without a political future doing what is necessary to cling to power despite internal civil unrest. Part of terms of peace would be netenyahu and Likud being expelled from political affiliation. Their is a problem with candidates, Yair Lapid maybe I don't know that is up to Israeli voters. I'm pretty sure public support for Netanyahu in Israel is at an all time low - but at the same time, I'm also pretty sure public support for a ceasefire and even a two-state solution in Israel are at an all time low as well. Palestinians have never really been too keen on a two-state solution either. A ceasefire is an acceptance of the status quo, I think both sides have very clearly thrown the status quo out of the window. However, these two groups left to their own devices will turn to ethnic cleansing to achieve the peace they imagine. I just don't see how the international community can keep their idea of the status quo alive and hope for peace. The west needs to stop turning a blind eye to IDF war crimes and to Netanyahu's terrible tenure as Israel's leader. The West rightly doesn't trust Hamas for obvious reasons, it's time to take the same attitude with Israel and let them know they've got to be held to the same standard of following the laws of modern warfare as the west. But it's obviously tougher for the international community to impose its will on a nuclear armed country - let alone one that has indicated in the past it won't hesitate to launch nukes if it feels alone and threatened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 296 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I'm pretty sure public support for Netanyahu in Israel is at an all time low - but at the same time, I'm also pretty sure public support for a ceasefire and even a two-state solution in Israel are at an all time low as well. Palestinians have never really been too keen on a two-state solution either. A ceasefire is an acceptance of the status quo, I think both sides have very clearly thrown the status quo out of the window. However, these two groups left to their own devices will turn to ethnic cleansing to achieve the peace they imagine. I just don't see how the international community can keep their idea of the status quo alive and hope for peace. The west needs to stop turning a blind eye to IDF war crimes and to Netanyahu's terrible tenure as Israel's leader. The West rightly doesn't trust Hamas for obvious reasons, it's time to take the same attitude with Israel and let them know they've got to be held to the same standard of following the laws of modern warfare as the west. But it's obviously tougher for the international community to impose its will on a nuclear armed country - let alone one that has indicated in the past it won't hesitate to launch nukes if it feels alone and threatened. I can't see Russia wanting a path that necessitates nuclear war. There needs to be a cooling off as things are not looking good right now and I am concerned that we are being cattle heared into war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,187 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 7 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said: I can't see Russia wanting a path that necessitates nuclear war. There needs to be a cooling off as things are not looking good right now and I am concerned that we are being cattle heared into war. Not Russia I’m worried about doing that, but Israel - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option#Deterrence_doctrine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Nuclear weapons are almost a century old technology no tech can be made exclusive for that long. Before we see an actual county using one we will see more Beirut like explosions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 296 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 The pain I have in all of this is that the solution was always around since 1920 and again in 1947 but external players seem to have political profit in leveraging anti semitic against Palestinian suffering, both are symptoms of ingenuine political ideals between the east and west. I pray for a brighter day when we can live side by side in a land which all parties have right to coexist, in the end of this latest phase of suffering the end result is as eluded to was already in place some 80 years ago. Peace however cannot be achieved if Hamas, PLO and other radical groups remain in power, the question is how and who can oversee a power transfer and when the time is right to give the power back to Palestinians following a truly free and fair election. The only players that can oversee that is the UN and US, the UN is too weak to repel any hostile take over from extremists and the US may be hesitant in overseeing this process. What we know to be true is that neither Israeli's nor Palestinians will be free if these belligerents have power and influence, indoctrinating a nation on perpetual hate and then throwing them in harms way to use their suffering to drum up anti western rhetoric. I am extremely worried for the west which seems it is at its most vulnerable, alliances are failing, values are just lip service and when you have China, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Uganda and the like waxing lyrical on human rights and the west can just sit on its own hands while these nations are showing that they are now poised to strike and they are just using Palestinians as a springboard to moral wash their true intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,187 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 It kind of feels like the story of the US Airman burning himself alive is being buried by the media. The guy was clearly mentally prepared for taking his life in a particularly unpleasant and painful way. He made a will and found someone to take care of his cat. It was clearly very deliberate and he says "Today, I'm planning to engage in an extreme act of protest against the genocide of the Palestinian people." I find it so strange that the public discourse on the topic contains so few voices that recognise the humanity of both Palestinians and Israelis and I find it tremendously disturbing that western governments find it all too easy to turn a blind eye to blatant war crimes and human rights violations. Israelis have the right to defend themselves, they don't have the right to commit war crimes. Palestinians have the right to exist and to have self-governance, they don't have the right to kill and capture civilians. But the media's burial of this story just seems like further complicity of the west sitting by as Israel fights the war in a pretty cowardly and inhumane fashion, despite having a clear advantage in military might. There have been more civilian deaths in Gaza in a few short months than there were at any year of the US led invasion and occupation of Iraq from 2003-2023. Indiscriminate airstrikes have been used despite the IDF knowing that over 61% of the people killed in these airstrikes are civilians. These aren't the actions of military leaders aiming to break the cycle of radicalisation in Gaza - they are the actions that view all people in Gaza, regardless of how young they might be, as extremist terrorists that are fair game to be killed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 296 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 20 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: It kind of feels like the story of the US Airman burning himself alive is being buried by the media. The guy was clearly mentally prepared for taking his life in a particularly unpleasant and painful way. He made a will and found someone to take care of his cat. It was clearly very deliberate and he says "Today, I'm planning to engage in an extreme act of protest against the genocide of the Palestinian people." I find it so strange that the public discourse on the topic contains so few voices that recognise the humanity of both Palestinians and Israelis and I find it tremendously disturbing that western governments find it all too easy to turn a blind eye to blatant war crimes and human rights violations. Israelis have the right to defend themselves, they don't have the right to commit war crimes. Palestinians have the right to exist and to have self-governance, they don't have the right to kill and capture civilians. But the media's burial of this story just seems like further complicity of the west sitting by as Israel fights the war in a pretty cowardly and inhumane fashion, despite having a clear advantage in military might. There have been more civilian deaths in Gaza in a few short months than there were at any year of the US led invasion and occupation of Iraq from 2003-2023. Indiscriminate airstrikes have been used despite the IDF knowing that over 61% of the people killed in these airstrikes are civilians. These aren't the actions of military leaders aiming to break the cycle of radicalisation in Gaza - they are the actions that view all people in Gaza, regardless of how young they might be, as extremist terrorists that are fair game to be killed. It's all over YouTube and all the slanting is left leaning like every death apparently is a civilian but Hamas have lost 19 of 23 brigades. Their opperationsal strength was 30000, 10-12k are dead, 10000 wounded and probably some would have died a further 4000 captured. That makes it just over 2:1 ratio. So 61% would be 2:1 and I find the idea of not knowing civilians live in a city a stretch. Thousands of videos with IDF troops finding residentials, mosques boobie trapped, full of the Hamas Jew hating propaganda yet certain media is ignoring it. To CBS's credit they are showing in. I find people using palastinians suffering as political tropes to be the bigger problem, the virtue warriors had three weeks to set up refugee camps and did fuck all, why? Because they don't give a shit They want maximum casualties but 2:1 in context of a conflict that is completely urban is pretty accurate. Rafah is the last stand, you would think the virtue brigade would push to have US or NATO peacekeepers set up processing settlements in the Sinai to allow the evacuation of civilians and possible interception of Hamas cunts, why haven't they even suggested that? Khan Yunis is the straw that broke the Hamas back, they are now being flushed out and massacred. The IDF used massive smoke bombs to show all exit points and have the rats coming up for air. Palastine will be liberated when Hamas is gone, the real problem is that there are people that don't want that happening, it generally is a certain group that hate western civilization, but happily eat out of its hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 296 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I am uneasy about any ground invasion over Ramadan. These savages attack over our religious observance days, because they dehumanise us for being Jewish, I don't want to stoop to their level, no invasion over Ramadan. Civilians need to be evacuated ASAP as I don't think Hamas have any living captives. It is the last stand then we can talk about peace agreements, this notion that letting Hamas survive is going to lead to lasting peace is bullshit, we will be back here in no time. Israelis(Arabs included) are tired of being told to take it, our people took it from the Egyptians, the Philistines, the Byzantines, the Romans, the Ottomans and various Arabs, the Nazis, how about no we don't take it anymore. It will take a lot more than Islamists and their seal clapping apologists to get rid of us, never again means never again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said: I am uneasy about any ground invasion over Ramadan. These savages attack over our religious observance days, because they dehumanise us for being Jewish, I don't want to stoop to their level, no invasion over Ramadan. Civilians need to be evacuated ASAP as I don't think Hamas have any living captives. It is the last stand then we can talk about peace agreements, this notion that letting Hamas survive is going to lead to lasting peace is bullshit, we will be back here in no time. Israelis(Arabs included) are tired of being told to take it, our people took it from the Egyptians, the Philistines, the Byzantines, the Romans, the Ottomans and various Arabs, the Nazis, how about no we don't take it anymore. It will take a lot more than Islamists and their seal clapping apologists to get rid of us, never again means never again. The irony... Your posts trying to paint Israel as massive victims is embarrassing. Talking about how Nazi Israel shouldn't "stoop to their level". Suggesting they're being targeted randomly for being Jewish is the only thing pro-Israelis can hide behind but anyone that looks at the situation knows that's not true. Killing and oppressing endless amounts of Palestinians over decades and now seeing and taking the opportunity to commit genocide isn't "Jews standing up for themselves". It's a violent nationalist movement gone wild. Parroting the right wing, Islamaphobic, tactic of suggesting anyone that is against Israel committing a genocide must be an "Islamist" isn't gonna convince any decent minded person. It just acts as a dog whistle for bigots that want an excuse to be bigots. Imagine trying to dismiss anyone that was against the Nazis by calling them "Jew lovers". That's the type of person you're being right now. Israel will most likely get what they want simply because they have the means and the support and face very little pushback. They're not fighting against the odds like you're trying to make out. They're a powerful, violent, scumbag nation pressing home their advantage to complete a genocide. Fuck Nazi Israel. Edited February 28 by 6666 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,187 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said: It's all over YouTube and all the slanting is left leaning like every death apparently is a civilian but Hamas have lost 19 of 23 brigades. Their opperationsal strength was 30000, 10-12k are dead, 10000 wounded and probably some would have died a further 4000 captured. That makes it just over 2:1 ratio. So 61% would be 2:1 and I find the idea of not knowing civilians live in a city a stretch. Thousands of videos with IDF troops finding residentials, mosques boobie trapped, full of the Hamas Jew hating propaganda yet certain media is ignoring it. To CBS's credit they are showing in. I find people using palastinians suffering as political tropes to be the bigger problem, the virtue warriors had three weeks to set up refugee camps and did fuck all, why? Because they don't give a shit They want maximum casualties but 2:1 in context of a conflict that is completely urban is pretty accurate. Rafah is the last stand, you would think the virtue brigade would push to have US or NATO peacekeepers set up processing settlements in the Sinai to allow the evacuation of civilians and possible interception of Hamas cunts, why haven't they even suggested that? Khan Yunis is the straw that broke the Hamas back, they are now being flushed out and massacred. The IDF used massive smoke bombs to show all exit points and have the rats coming up for air. Palastine will be liberated when Hamas is gone, the real problem is that there are people that don't want that happening, it generally is a certain group that hate western civilization, but happily eat out of its hand YouTube isn't real media though, anyone can make an account and start posting their videos. It's not journalism or news, it's just vlogging but they can call themselves a "channel" because that's the word YouTube's given to the main page of their content creators. There's also quite a lot of pro-Israel content all over YouTube and social media generally that does all it can to ignore the various war crimes. What happens on social media is notable to an extent, but also in the grand scheme of things isn't notable - people don't actually get news from YouTube, they get narratives fed to them by the algorithm, and often that is just creating an echo chamber amongst social media addicts. The US and NATO peacekeepers wouldn't have any legitimacy in the eyes of Palestinians who see Israel as just a western colony in their land. A peacekeeping coalition would need the US/NATO + several Arab member groups. But these Arabs don't want to risk their soldiers and citizens put in harms way - they want the best of both worlds, favour from the West for uninvolvement in the conflict while also keeping their population happy with the idea that they are supporting Palestinians in their struggle. You keep mentioning possible refugee camps and evacuation of civilians - but let's also not forget that refugee camps and civilians who had been evacuated to them did in fact get bombed by the IDF. Many on the pro-Israel side say "well once Hamas is eradicated, we can rebuild life for Palestinian civilians" - I think it ignores the reality of urban warfare and military invasion. When the US invaded Iraq, their troops faced violence constantly for... pretty much the entirety of the time the US was there. You're right Hamas is the problem, but you don't contain extremism by treating every person in the invaded territory like they are the enemy and that their lives are worthless. If Israel wants to end cycles of extremism, which they should for a better life for themselves and for Palestinians, they've got to stop trying the same failed tactics that have proven to do fuck all but build further extremism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,187 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 5 hours ago, 6666 said: Parroting the right wing, Islamaphobic, tactic of suggesting anyone that is against Israel committing a genocide must be an "Islamist" isn't gonna convince any decent minded person. It just acts as a dog whistle for bigots that want an excuse to be bigots. Imagine trying to dismiss anyone that was against the Nazis by calling them "Jew lovers". Just FYI (although I'm not 100% sure he'd have known this either): Islamicist does not mean Islamic. All Muslims are Islamic, because their religion is Islam - that's what makes someone Muslim. Not all Muslims are Islamicists, Islamicists are the Muslims who believe in fundamentalist Islam being the cornerstone of politics. Sadiq Khan is Muslim, so he is Islamic. But he does not believe in the application of Islamic fundamentalism into his politics - so he is not an Islamicist. Ali Khamenei is a Muslim, so he is also Islamic. However, his political beliefs are driven by Shia Islamic fundamentalism - so he is an Islamicist. So using that word is not the same as trying to dismiss anyone that was against the Nazis as "Jew lovers" - there's a big difference between being Islamic and being an Islamicist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 296 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) https://nypost.com/2024/02/27/us-news/aaron-bushnell-claimed-secret-knowledge-of-us-forces-in-gaza/ Source: trust me bro, apparently he told his friend that Americans were in Gaza killing palastinians but no actual evidence like everything that is slanted in this conflict Found participating with radicalists online, would those radicalists be Islamists maybe? Edited February 29 by OrangeKhrush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 296 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Just FYI (although I'm not 100% sure he'd have known this either): Islamicist does not mean Islamic. All Muslims are Islamic, because their religion is Islam - that's what makes someone Muslim. Not all Muslims are Islamicists, Islamicists are the Muslims who believe in fundamentalist Islam being the cornerstone of politics. Sadiq Khan is Muslim, so he is Islamic. But he does not believe in the application of Islamic fundamentalism into his politics - so he is not an Islamicist. Ali Khamenei is a Muslim, so he is also Islamic. However, his political beliefs are driven by Shia Islamic fundamentalism - so he is an Islamicist. So using that word is not the same as trying to dismiss anyone that was against the Nazis as "Jew lovers" - there's a big difference between being Islamic and being an Islamicist. Yes Islamist is not islam it is a radical militant and politicised wing of islam, we know that. Hamas are Islamists and jihadis it's in their charter as source. If I recall you are a Apostate atheist, if you went just about anywhere in the middle east or north Africa, you will be killed, the Qur'an demands it Edited February 29 by OrangeKhrush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 Visuals of famine now coming out of Gaza. It's now also time the term fundamentalist West or something like that is also used. The unsheltering US support for Israel and things like Iraq war before that are not just for strictly geopolitical reasons or for natural resources etc it goes beyond that. Western power circles are the same colonial fundamentalist that they were centuries ago. That EU guy even saying rest of the world is a jungle and Europe is a garden a while back speaks that they deep down still hold the ideas of racial superiority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 IDF Nazis murder 100 Palestinians waiting for aid. What great liberators of the Palestinian people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,503 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 10 minutes ago, 6666 said: IDF Nazis murder 100 Palestinians waiting for aid. What great liberators of the Palestinian people... I hope all the Zionist fuckers and the IDF cunts die a slow painful fucking death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeKhrush 296 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, 6666 said: IDF Nazis murder 100 Palestinians waiting for aid. What great liberators of the Palestinian people... CNN: reporting that it is under review, most of the deaths were caused by the trucks trying to get away, there is no official confirmation on numbers resulting from gunfire and from stampeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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