Administrator Stan Posted December 1, 2019 Author Administrator Posted December 1, 2019 This is from the official Premier League site, explaining offside flagging: Quote Where there is a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity and the assistant referee is not certain whether the attacker actively involved is in an offside position, the assistant should delay indicating the offence until the phase of play has concluded. Where there is a clear and obvious goalscoring opportunity and the assistant referee is certain the attacker actively involved is in an offside position, then the assistant should indicate the offence immediately. In both of these situations the referee should wait to blow the whistle until the immediate phase of play has ended. So I think the linesman did the right thing? In his mind, he is 'certain' Iheanacho is offside. I would say perhaps it's the referee where the blame should be directed at but then you read the last line and you realise why he's not blown the whistle? Also @RandoEFC the flag may have been up for a relatively long time but your players only went to appeal after Iheanacho scored. Not one of them changed their defensive 'behaviour' so to speak? They all went to stop Iheanacho, Pickford didn't stop and give up and stand with his arm up in the air like Fabien Barthez (?) once did. I get why you feel aggrieved so I don't want you to think otherwise just because I'm debating it with you - just trying to make sense of the offside rule and if the officials have got it right based on the above ruling explanation...
LFCMadLad Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 Is @Stanthe biggest ever VAR fanboy you've ever witnessed? He literally defends anything where VAR is involved. When Leicester got the winner tonight, the players celebrated for about 5 seconds, then all stopped, then the decision came, then they celebrated again. Its absolutely fucking shite I honestly dont know how anyone can claim its improved anything in any aspect of the game? I'm all ears? How has football been improved with the use of VAR?
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted December 1, 2019 Subscriber Posted December 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Stan said: This is from the official Premier League site, explaining offside flagging: So I think the linesman did the right thing? In his mind, he is 'certain' Iheanacho is offside. I would say perhaps it's the referee where the blame should be directed at but then you read the last line and you realise why he's not blown the whistle? Also @RandoEFC the flag may have been up for a relatively long time but your players only went to appeal after Iheanacho scored. Not one of them changed their defensive 'behaviour' so to speak? They all went to stop Iheanacho, Pickford didn't stop and give up and stand with his arm up in the air like Fabien Barthez (?) once did. I get why you feel aggrieved so I don't want you to think otherwise just because I'm debating it with you - just trying to make sense of the offside rule and if the officials have got it right based on the above ruling explanation... When the official is certain they should signal immediately, that says to me that the linesman's flag means that he's telling everyone in the stadium that it's definitely offside which is unfair because it could cause players from either side not to play on as they would have otherwise. It's pretty simple to me. One of the only things that has been good about VAR this season is that they decided to do the keep the flag down thing to let things play out naturally in the event of marginal offside. That didn't happen here. I haven't seen a single other instance all season of this happening and the flag being overturned. There is no precedent for our players to believe that might have happened after seeing the flag. They all played on, but one or two of them pointed at the flag as soon as the ball hit the net, rather than appealing for offside, so they may well have noticed it in advance. If you're Mason Holgate and the linesman's flag is up and the only way to stop the goal was to go flying in or even commit a cynical foul, you're not going to take that risk of injuring yourself or your opponent or getting sent off if you're certain that he's offside. If the offside flag didn't affect how players continued then they wouldn't have introduced the initiative to keep the flag down and let things play out without that interference. Absolutely, I can't prove that we would have stopped Iheanacho if the linesman kept his flag down any more than you can prove that our players weren't affected by it. I don't really think I have anything else to add. For me the linesman flagging in that scenario is almost as good as the referee's whistle. Maybe I'd see it the other way if it had happened at the other end, but based on others including Dan seeing things the way I do I don't think I'd be taking your position on it anyway.
Administrator Stan Posted December 1, 2019 Author Administrator Posted December 1, 2019 1 minute ago, LFCMadLad said: Is @Stanthe biggest ever VAR fanboy you've ever witnessed? He literally defends anything where VAR is involved. When Leicester got the winner tonight, the players celebrated for about 5 seconds, then all stopped, then the decision came, then they celebrated again. Its absolutely fucking shite I honestly dont know how anyone can claim its improved anything in any aspect of the game? I'm all ears? How has football been improved? You're literally the opposite of me so don't think you're in a position to point the finger . You literally defend anything anti-VAR in the same way I like to defend it (with the caveat I can see its flaws whereas you fail to see the positives, mind). 'Has football been improved'? Arguably so considering VAR has corrected some decisions which otherwise would have incorrectly stood. I still maintain it can improve in some aspects. It's not perfect and may take some time to be. But it's not totally useless as much as you like to think it is.
LFCMadLad Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Stan said: You're literally the opposite of me so don't think you're in a position to point the finger . You literally defend anything anti-VAR in the same way I like to defend it (with the caveat I can see its flaws whereas you fail to see the positives, mind). 'Has football been improved'? Arguably so considering VAR has corrected some decisions which otherwise would have incorrectly stood. I still maintain it can improve in some aspects. It's not perfect and may take some time to be. But it's not totally useless as much as you like to think it is. Mate, VAR was introduced to get basic and crucial decisions right. It's doing neither on a consistent basis. It's also killing celebrations of goals and that euphoria that once was. That's the last I'm saying on the matter
Administrator Stan Posted December 1, 2019 Author Administrator Posted December 1, 2019 Just now, LFCMadLad said: Mate, VAR was introduced to get basic and crucial decisions right. It's doing neither on a consistent basis. That's the last I'm saying on the matter I agree consistency can be improved. Never once said otherwise.
LFCMadLad Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Stan said: I agree consistency can be improved. Never once said otherwise. Improved? It cant literally get any worse
Administrator Stan Posted December 1, 2019 Author Administrator Posted December 1, 2019 1 minute ago, LFCMadLad said: Improved? It cant literally get any worse well, it can get worse if it constantly doesn't correct anything or continuously gets stuff wrong?
LFCMadLad Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 Just now, Stan said: well, it can get worse if it constantly doesn't correct anything or continuously gets stuff wrong? So it will stay the same then?
The Artful Dodger Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 It's not VAR that is the issue it's either the rules or human error.
Administrator Stan Posted December 1, 2019 Author Administrator Posted December 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: So it will stay the same then? what? I'm saying the consistency of decisions need to improve and you're still having a go ?!
LFCMadLad Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 Just now, Stan said: what? I'm saying the consistency of decisions need to improve and you're still having a go ?! I'm not having a go at all mate. I think its hilarious how shambolic VAR is
DeadLinesman Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: It's not VAR that is the issue it's either the rules or human error. Quite literally what I’ve been saying for 3 months now. The rules can be changed to take the element of human error out of the equation when it comes to specific decision making involving VAR in my opinion.
LFCMadLad Posted December 1, 2019 Posted December 1, 2019 22 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: Quite literally what I’ve been saying for 3 months now. The rules can be changed to take the element of human error out of the equation when it comes to specific decision making involving VAR in my opinion. Football was better before VAR, its undeniable. There wasnt half as much debate and the game wasnt slowed down to check everything like it is now. The euphoric feeling of a goal also wasnt taken away. Can you honestly explain to me how VAR has improved football because I'm at an absolute loss mate?
Subscriber Dan+ Posted December 2, 2019 Subscriber Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Stan said: This is from the official Premier League site, explaining offside flagging: So I think the linesman did the right thing? In his mind, he is 'certain' Iheanacho is offside. I would say perhaps it's the referee where the blame should be directed at but then you read the last line and you realise why he's not blown the whistle? Also @RandoEFC the flag may have been up for a relatively long time but your players only went to appeal after Iheanacho scored. Not one of them changed their defensive 'behaviour' so to speak? They all went to stop Iheanacho, Pickford didn't stop and give up and stand with his arm up in the air like Fabien Barthez (?) once did. I get why you feel aggrieved so I don't want you to think otherwise just because I'm debating it with you - just trying to make sense of the offside rule and if the officials have got it right based on the above ruling explanation... Sorry but the linesman is indefensible here. It's a tight call and he surely knows that. That wasn't obvious either way, by anyone's reckoning, and the flag should just stay down until the phase of play is over. To put the flag up is ridiculous. How could he have possibly seen it obviously offside when he wasn't even offside? It's poor officiating. It's skewed the whole incident. We are right to be given the goal in my opinion but the linesman's put the officials in a lose lose there. You say in his mind it's clearly offside but that just literally cannot be the case. It's impossible.
Administrator Stan Posted December 2, 2019 Author Administrator Posted December 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Dan said: Sorry but the linesman is indefensible here. It's a tight call and he surely knows that. That wasn't obvious either way, by anyone's reckoning, and the flag should just stay down until the phase of play is over. To put the flag up is ridiculous. How could he have possibly seen it obviously offside when he wasn't even offside? It's poor officiating. It's skewed the whole incident. We are right to be given the goal in my opinion but the linesman's put the officials in a lose lose there. You say in his mind it's clearly offside but that just literally cannot be the case. It's impossible. Well only he knows for sure why he's put the flag up . I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here! It was marginal. Iheanacho was only on by inches and even then it wasn't exactly clear that it was so.
Danny Posted December 2, 2019 Posted December 2, 2019 Players should play to the whistle regardless of whether a flag goes up or not, the ref always has the power to overrule the lino let alone VAR
The Artful Dodger Posted December 2, 2019 Posted December 2, 2019 True. But can anyone explain why we need linesmen now then? All they do is confuse the issue.
Guest Posted December 2, 2019 Posted December 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Danny said: Players should play to the whistle regardless of whether a flag goes up or not, the ref always has the power to overrule the lino let alone VAR Yeah I was just watching ref watch. Players are basically told to play to the whistle. They are told that from a young age. The flags do affect them probably but that is something they are gonna have to learn to ignore. According to the rules it was the right decision although it does seem a bit unfair. I think this is something players will learn to adapt to in time.
Danny Posted December 2, 2019 Posted December 2, 2019 3 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said: True. But can anyone explain why we need linesmen now then? All they do is confuse the issue. Because the rule of offside still applies to non goal scoring opportunities...you need real-time decision making for the majority of decisions in a game
The Artful Dodger Posted December 2, 2019 Posted December 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, Danny said: Because the rule of offside still applies to non goal scoring opportunities...you need real-time decision making for the majority of decisions in a game Any offside can build into a goalscoring opportunity. I'm all for VAR but let's implement it totally and run the whole game.
Danny Posted December 2, 2019 Posted December 2, 2019 57 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Any offside can build into a goalscoring opportunity. I'm all for VAR but let's implement it totally and run the whole game. Technically yes but that's getting a bit silly because any foul not given can eventually build into a goalscoring opportunity, there are plenty of offsides that don't directly build into anything and the confusion behind a VAR check for every one would be mental
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