Living Abroad

[Coma+]

I've been putting in some basic research on living outside of the US.  Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing?  I'm 44 now and will likely be working at least another 10 years but I'd like to think that with some planning I can make it work.

[Eco]

55 minutes ago, Coma said:

I've been putting in some basic research on living outside of the US.  Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing?  I'm 44 now and will likely be working at least another 10 years but I'd like to think that with some planning I can make it work.

I actually lived outside the US for 5 years at one time, and then 4 periods of a year a piece. 

Think about what you'd like to do and where you'd like to go. My father packed up and left back in 2005, and traveled the world for 5 years, before coming home. I still think he misses those days, but I digress. 

Shoot any questions you have, and where you are looking to go. Some places are easier to go to and work than others, or if you just want to be integrate yourself into a specific culture, then plan out what your goal is and how you are able to pay for it. 

Go for it though, man! I miss those days of traveling all over the place. 

[nudge]

2 years in the Netherlands and almost 7 years in Asia. 

The most important thing is making sure you have sufficient income, everything else is secondary. 

[Coma+]

My initial feeling was that Germany was the place for me, but I'm not so sure my wife would agree.  I have done most of my reading on Spain considering the housing costs and healthcare system.  Two areas that I'm intrigued by are Bilbao and Sevilla.

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Coma said:

My initial feeling was that Germany was the place for me, but I'm not so sure my wife would agree.  I have done most of my reading on Spain considering the housing costs and healthcare system.  Two areas that I'm intrigued by are Bilbao and Sevilla.

I can't help you Western Europe. I did stay a couple of years (not consecutive) in Germany, but I was younger and lived with my Aunt in Kaiserslautern. 

I lived in Russia for 3 years. Seeing family, and spending time doing some online writing to make ends meet. Granted my family is spread throughout Russia so I could travel from city to city and live and still make money. 

After that, I moved to China and taught English, which was quite an experience. Stayed there for just short of 2 years and by the end couldn't get home quick enough. 

I've thought about moving to Europe. I have a job that would allow me to work anywhere as long as I have internet, but alas I have obligations that keep me here. 

Been thinking of either Stuttgart or Amsterdam as they are both Security Hubs for the European sector of the company I work for, but again, I could live in the middle of Lake Constance and as long as I have internet, I am good to go. 

[nudge]

10 minutes ago, Coma said:

My initial feeling was that Germany was the place for me, but I'm not so sure my wife would agree.  I have done most of my reading on Spain considering the housing costs and healthcare system.  Two areas that I'm intrigued by are Bilbao and Sevilla.

Do you intend to move before or after you retire?

[Coma+]

5 minutes ago, Eco said:

I can't help you Western Europe. I did stay a couple of years (not consecutive) in Germany, but I was younger and lived with my Aunt in Kaiserslautern. 

I lived in Russia for 3 years. Seeing family, and spending time doing some online writing to make ends meet. Granted my family is spread throughout Russia so I could travel from city to city and live and still make money. 

After that, I moved to China and taught English, which was quite an experience. Stayed there for just short of 2 years and by the end couldn't get home quick enough. 

I've thought about moving to Europe. I have a job that would allow me to work anywhere as long as I have internet, but alas I have obligations that keep me here. 

Been thinking of either Stuttgart or Amsterdam as they are both Security Hubs for the European sector of the company I work for, but again, I could live in the middle of Lake Constance and as long as I have internet, I am good to go. 

I would consider Stuttgart or Berlin in Germany, but I'm not sure about the cost of living.  My German is progressing fairly well so I'd certainly be more comfortable in that environment.  My Spanish is rusty af.

[Eco]

3 minutes ago, Coma said:

I would consider Stuttgart or Berlin in Germany, but I'm not sure about the cost of living.  My German is progressing fairly well so I'd certainly be more comfortable in that environment.  My Spanish is rusty af.

Stuttgart is expensive AF. Like crazy expensive. 

I'm not sure about Berlin, but I'd be shocked if it also wasn't crazy expensive. 

[Coma+]

3 minutes ago, nudge said:

Do you intend to move before or after you retire?

My plan would be to scope out some areas well in advance of retirement so that when I do retire I know what I want.  My job as an engineer is not conducive to working remotely so I'd likely not move until I retired.  If it worked out differently and I did find an opportunity I would certainly consider it.

Another factor for me would be my kids, aged 14, 10, and 6.  It would be a significant upheaval for them.

[Coma+]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

Stuttgart is expensive AF. Like crazy expensive. 

I'm not sure about Berlin, but I'd be shocked if it also wasn't crazy expensive. 

Yeah, I think Berlin is much better.  My love affair with Germany is such that I really would like to be there but I'm not sure that the costs are worth it.  In general Spain and Portugal seem to be the affordable locations in Western Europe.

[nudge]

2 minutes ago, Coma said:

My plan would be to scope out some areas well in advance of retirement so that when I do retire I know what I want.  My job as an engineer is not conducive to working remotely so I'd likely not move until I retired.  If it worked out differently and I did find an opportunity I would certainly consider it.

Another factor for me would be my kids, aged 14, 10, and 6.  It would be a significant upheaval for them.

Yeah, making the move once you're retired will definitely be easier in terms of bureaucratic processes like getting a long-term visa, residence permit, etc. As long as you can show sufficient funds, you'll have no trouble being granted residence in most countries, and it should be a relatively stress-free affair.

As for the kids, I'd say it's a good experience for them...

[nudge]

4 minutes ago, Coma said:

Yeah, I think Berlin is much better.  My love affair with Germany is such that I really would like to be there but I'm not sure that the costs are worth it.  In general Spain and Portugal seem to be the affordable locations in Western Europe.

Berlin is not that expensive to be honest, but finding proper housing is a pain in the arse.

[Rucksackfranzose]

12 minutes ago, Eco said:

Stuttgart is expensive AF. Like crazy expensive. 

I'm not sure about Berlin, but I'd be shocked if it also wasn't crazy expensive. 

Well it's changing and rapidly, but five years ago Berlin was one of the cheapest cities in Germany and it's still much cheaper than Munich, Stuttgart, and Frankfurt.

[Eco]

One of the places that I'd like to visit and maybe spend a ton of time, is Lübeck. Very historical and on the water. 

Granted, I have never been, but I've always said that if I was to move to Germany, I likely wouldn't move to one of the 'big' cities. 

[Coma+]

3 minutes ago, nudge said:

Yeah, making the move once you're retired will definitely be easier in terms of bureaucratic processes like getting a long-term visa, residence permit, etc. As long as you can show sufficient funds, you'll have no trouble being granted residence in most countries, and it should be a relatively stress-free affair.

As for the kids, I'd say it's a good experience for them...

I don't disagree on that last point.  One of the biggest issues in the US today, imo, is the nationalistic mentality.  A lot of countries have gone through this period and I feel like the majority of Europe has already been there and learned from it... to some extent.  

I would like my kids to experience other cultures but my wife is much more hesitant.  She's from a small farm town in Pennsylvania so it's way different than anything she's done in the past.  I have mentioned it in passing over the past couple weeks and she balked at the idea of leaving all of our family behind.  Just the idea of it set her off .  For me personally it's not just about "seeing the world", although it's the primary reason.  I explained to here that I was genuinely concerned about where this country is headed.  That gave her something to think about. 

[Coma+]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

One of the places that I'd like to visit and maybe spend a ton of time, is Lübeck. Very historical and on the water. 

Granted, I have never been, but I've always said that if I was to move to Germany, I likely wouldn't move to one of the 'big' cities. 

I thought the same initially, but I also feel like becoming assimilated into a new place might be easier with some other expats to help guide you through the process.  You wouldn't find that in small towns.  Once you get more comfortable I could see moving out into the country somewhere.  

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Coma said:

I thought the same initially, but I also feel like becoming assimilated into a new place might be easier with some other expats to help guide you through the process.  You wouldn't find that in small towns.  Once you get more comfortable I could see moving out into the country somewhere.  

Best German cities for expats (2020): an overview

These are the top German German cities for expats 2020:

1. Düsseldorf

2. Frankfurt am Main

3. Hamburg

4. Munich

5. Berlin

6. Stuttgart

https://housinganywhere.com/Germany/best-german-cities-for-expats

 

Plus you'd have @Tommy

[Rucksackfranzose]

4 minutes ago, Eco said:

One of the places that I'd like to visit and maybe spend a ton of time, is Lübeck. Very historical and on the water. 

Granted, I have never been, but I've always said that if I was to move to Germany, I likely wouldn't move to one of the 'big' cities. 

Lübeck? And you were calling Berlin crazy expensive? Take note Berlin is way cheaper than both: Lübeck and Trier.

[Eco]

Just now, Rucksackfranzose said:

Lübeck? And you were calling Berlin crazy expensive? Take note Berlin is way cheaper than both: Lübeck and Trier.

I didn't call Berlin expensive, but just said that since I knew Stuttgart was, I assumed Berlin was also, but that I wasn't sure. 

Ha - I had no idea Lübeck was expensive. So I'm assuming that it's a really nice area then? The photos look immense. 

[nudge]

4 minutes ago, Coma said:

I don't disagree on that last point.  One of the biggest issues in the US today, imo, is the nationalistic mentality.  A lot of countries have gone through this period and I feel like the majority of Europe has already been there and learned from it... to some extent.  

I would like my kids to experience other cultures but my wife is much more hesitant.  She's from a small farm town in Pennsylvania so it's way different than anything she's done in the past.  I have mentioned it in passing over the past couple weeks and she balked at the idea of leaving all of our family behind.  Just the idea of it set her off .  For me personally it's not just about "seeing the world", although it's the primary reason.  I explained to here that I was genuinely concerned about where this country is headed.  That gave her something to think about. 

Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone and for a lot of people it is understandably hard to leave family, friends, and the regular way of life behind. Also, Heimweh is real, and can be absolutely debilitating for some - I've seen some really bad cases where people would get depressed and couldn't function properly. If I were you, I would make sure that you're both 100% on the same page, because moving abroad is generally quite a big change and a stressful event, and if one of you is unhappy, it can put a real strain on relationship/marriage. 

[Whiskey]

Just now, nudge said:

Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone and for a lot of people it is understandably hard to leave family, friends, and the regular way of life behind. Also, Heimweh is real, and can be absolutely debilitating for some - I've seen some really bad cases where people would get depressed and couldn't function properly. If I were you, I would make sure that you're both 100% on the same page, because moving abroad is generally quite a big change and a stressful event, and if one of you is unhappy, it can put a real strain on relationship/marriage. 

I had to Google what Heimweh was.

[Coma+]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

Best German cities for expats (2020): an overview

These are the top German German cities for expats 2020:

1. Düsseldorf

2. Frankfurt am Main

3. Hamburg

4. Munich

5. Berlin

6. Stuttgart

https://housinganywhere.com/Germany/best-german-cities-for-expats

 

Plus you'd have @Tommy

We could throw back some Kölsch together.  I'm not into the altbier.

I do have a friend who visits Düsseldorf regularly and he loves it.

[Coma+]

3 minutes ago, nudge said:

Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone and for a lot of people it is understandably hard to leave family, friends, and the regular way of life behind. Also, Heimweh is real, and can be absolutely debilitating for some - I've seen some really bad cases where people would get depressed and couldn't function properly. If I were you, I would make sure that you're both 100% on the same page, because moving abroad is generally quite a big change and a stressful event, and if one of you is unhappy, it can put a real strain on relationship/marriage. 

I worked with a guy from Madrid for a few years.  He had the opportunity to go back home to work so he took his wife (American) and kids back to Madrid.  Long story short they were back in the US within 1 year.  His wife refused to learn Spanish and ultimately she completely shut down.  

[nudge]

4 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

I had to Google what Heimweh was.

I actually thought it's one of the German loan words you lot use as well, but then realised that you already have a word for homesickness  

[CaaC (John)+]

If you can class when we emigrated to Australia as a young lad then I spent 14 years in Australia, came back to the UK for around 3 months then joined the army and spent 4 years in Dortmund, Germany, then back to the UK and have been living in Scotland ever since. 

Reflecting back to Germany that was one part of our lives me and the wife loved living there and have very nostalgic memories of our stay in Germany.