Donald Trump

[Harry]

I follow him on Twitter and it makes me sick. Almost everything he says is somewhere between ignorantly misinformed and patently false. 

[Harry]

Should this be the thread where we discuss the 2020 race?

Elizabeth Warren has effectively announced she'll be running for the democratic candidacy in the past 36 hours. The will likely be a fair bit of activity on that front this year. It could warrant its own thread. 

[Harry]

How do you impeach a president who has won perhaps the greatest election of all time, done nothing wrong (no Collusion with Russia, it was the Dems that Colluded), had the most successful first two years of any president, and is the most popular Republican in party history 93%?

[Cicero]

That a rhetorical question?

[Harry]

12 hours ago, Cicero said:

That a rhetorical question?

It's a trump tweet. 

One of the more sickeningly false ones. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

It’s a hilarious tweet.

on a related but also sort of unrelated note: someone explain to me why the US government has these shutdowns. I can’t believe there’s literally no plan for if a budget can’t get passed and I feel like being able to effectively run the government should trigger special elections or something along those lines. 

Seems like a pretty serious flaw in their already weird system

[Cicero]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It’s a hilarious tweet.

on a related but also sort of unrelated note: someone explain to me why the US government has these shutdowns. I can’t believe there’s literally no plan for if a budget can’t get passed and I feel like being able to effectively run the government should trigger special elections or something along those lines. 

Seems like a pretty serious flaw in their already weird system

What is the shut down even for? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

What is the shut down even for? 

A budget for 2019 hasn't been passed, so government agencies shut down because they don't have funding. Then federal employees who are "deemed" essential have to work... without getting paid.

I think it's mental there's no plan for if there's no budget passed. It's pretty similar to a hung parliament with no majority coalition formed - but I'm pretty sure most parliaments have measures in place (special elections if a government can't be formed), whereas there's no real plan if a budget isn't passed. Not even rolling over the last year budget.

But the airport security people and air traffic controllers are all working without pay... so a lot of them are calling in sick which is creating major staffing shortages. 3 airlines have said the shutdown is making flying more dangerous. Fuck knows how many other types of federal employees are deemed "essential" and working without pay - and I don't know if they get paid after a budget is finally passed. But I'd be furious if I were in their shoes.

All this for a border wall... which by the way, I've actually been to the border (and crossed it several times) and at the Otay Mesa border checkpoint there's a... wall there between San Diego and Tijuana. There's also a massive mall on the US side of the border that's right up against the wall where some of the stores are duty free - which is pretty cool but besides the point. I know the wall doesn't cover the full border (but there's reasons for that), but I don't think the government should shut down for a multi billion dollar expansion for something that already exists. Most illegal immigrants are people who overstay their visas in any case, so the wall isn't even going to address the root of that problem.

[Cicero]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

A budget for 2019 hasn't been passed, so government agencies shut down because they don't have funding. Then federal employees who are "deemed" essential have to work... without getting paid.

I think it's mental there's no plan for if there's no budget passed. It's pretty similar to a hung parliament with no majority coalition formed - but I'm pretty sure most parliaments have measures in place (special elections if a government can't be formed), whereas there's no real plan if a budget isn't passed. Not even rolling over the last year budget.

But the airport security people and air traffic controllers are all working without pay... so a lot of them are calling in sick which is creating major staffing shortages. 3 airlines have said the shutdown is making flying more dangerous. Fuck knows how many other types of federal employees are deemed "essential" and working without pay - and I don't know if they get paid after a budget is finally passed. But I'd be furious if I were in their shoes.

All this for a border wall... which by the way, I've actually been to the border (and crossed it several times) and at the Otay Mesa border checkpoint there's a... wall there between San Diego and Tijuana. There's also a massive mall on the US side of the border that's right up against the wall where some of the stores are duty free - which is pretty cool but besides the point. I know the wall doesn't cover the full border (but there's reasons for that), but I don't think the government should shut down for a multi billion dollar expansion for something that already exists. Most illegal immigrants are people who overstay their visas in any case, so the wall isn't even going to address the root of that problem.

Think the wall will just serve as reassurance for them before they focus on immigration reform. I can comprehend the logic behind that.  My concern is whether or not the wall will actually put a significant dent into drugs coming into the country. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Think the wall will just serve as reassurance for them before they focus on immigration reform. I can comprehend the logic behind that.  My concern is whether or not the wall will actually put a significant dent into drugs coming into the country. 

 

I can't imagine it putting a significant dent in drugs coming into the country. They mostly come in through tunnels and makeshift submarines (the shittiest looking submarines I've ever seen) - they're already circumventing a wall when they come in through most of the California border. And California is one of the biggest (if not the biggest, purely off population size) drug consuming states in the country.

I can't fathom wasting billions on a wall as "reassurance" before focusing on immigration form. Both parties have been crying out for immigration reform, firstly, so it's not like Congress couldn't have worked on comprehensive immigration reform for the last 2 years. Particularly when both houses were held by the same party. Secondly, and more obviously, it's a colossal waste of money just to make some people "feel" better. And I know people on the right don't usually give a fuck about the environment or animals... but there's actual ecological reasons why there isn't a physical border wall along the whole border. There's also areas where it's not practical to build a wall and they will literally need to move mountains to make it possible.

There are actual serious issues in America those billions could be allocated towards that would make an impact on most Americans lives more than a big wall that I think ultimately would serve as a monument to racism. Get a sense of how most people who live in US border towns feel about building a wall to get a feel for how useful a wall would really be - because those are the people most impacted by what goes on at the border. Even in Texas, people on the border think it's a huge waste of money.

Something I think left or right can agree on is that the US definitely needs an infrastructure overhaul. That would make a net benefit to all people living in the US in a much more significant way - as in it would do something (fix roads and shit like that) most people will see a benefit from, as opposed to just spending billions to make a thing that already exists bigger. That's something most people would agree with, regardless of their stance on healthcare, war, or immigration.

And it's something Trump campaigned on, so he could score easy points with his base and take a rare moment to take credit for something good happening with him as President. Something that even his critics would have to give him credit for.

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I can't imagine it putting a significant dent in drugs coming into the country. They mostly come in through tunnels and makeshift submarines (the shittiest looking submarines I've ever seen) - they're already circumventing a wall when they come in through most of the California border. And California is one of the biggest (if not the biggest, purely off population size) drug consuming states in the country.

I can't fathom wasting billions on a wall as "reassurance" before focusing on immigration form. Both parties have been crying out for immigration reform, firstly, so it's not like Congress couldn't have worked on comprehensive immigration reform for the last 2 years. Particularly when both houses were held by the same party. Secondly, and more obviously, it's a colossal waste of money just to make some people "feel" better. And I know people on the right don't usually give a fuck about the environment or animals... but there's actual ecological reasons why there isn't a physical border wall along the whole border. There's also areas where it's not practical to build a wall and they will literally need to move mountains to make it possible.

There are actual serious issues in America those billions could be allocated towards that would make an impact on most Americans lives more than a big wall that I think ultimately would serve as a monument to racism. Get a sense of how most people who live in US border towns feel about building a wall to get a feel for how useful a wall would really be - because those are the people most impacted by what goes on at the border. Even in Texas, people on the border think it's a huge waste of money.

Something I think left or right can agree on is that the US definitely needs an infrastructure overhaul. That would make a net benefit to all people living in the US in a much more significant way - as in it would do something (fix roads and shit like that) most people will see a benefit from, as opposed to just spending billions to make a thing that already exists bigger. That's something most people would agree with, regardless of their stance on healthcare, war, or immigration.

And it's something Trump campaigned on, so he could score easy points with his base and take a rare moment to take credit for something good happening with him as President. Something that even his critics would have to give him credit for.

It depends on what the wall will bring in terms of security. 

According to the border patrol and the coast guard, it isn't a situational awareness issue. It's having enough operational assets to tackle the tunnels, submarines, and aircraft bringing the drugs in. My concern is whether or not this alleged 20 billion dollar investment will be used effectively to enhance those security measures. When the overdose death toll of heroin and meth is higher than ever, I can understand the need for immediate action.  So if this wall does in fact counter those issues,  I can comprehend why they want to focus on preventing undocumented people coming in before actual immigration reform. 

Also, be it an individual on the left or right, anything they say about the potential impact on animals is hypocritical if they are not vegan. I always laugh when I see someone (not talking about you) who continuously whines about the harm certain environmental changes have on animals, whilst at the same time scarfing down a burger and chicken wings.  Given the massive environmental impact the food and farm industry already have, it's just redundant seeing cries of concern about what the wall will do.

Didn't Texas majority vote were in favor of the wall? 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

56 minutes ago, Cicero said:

It depends on what the wall will bring in terms of security. 

According to the border patrol and the coast guard, it isn't a situational awareness issue. It's having enough operational assets to tackle the tunnels, submarines, and aircraft bringing the drugs in. My concern is whether or not this alleged 20 billion dollar investment will be used effectively to enhance those security measures. When the overdose death toll of heroin and meth is higher than ever, I can understand the need for immediate action.  So if this wall does in fact counter those issues,  I can comprehend why they want to focus on preventing undocumented people coming in before actual immigration reform. 

Also, be it an individual on the left or right, anything they say about the potential impact on animals is hypocritical if they are not vegan. I always laugh when I see someone (not talking about you) who continuously whines about the harm certain environmental changes have on animals, whilst at the same time scarfing down a burger and chicken wings.  Given the massive environmental impact the food and farm industry already have, it's just redundant seeing cries of concern about what the wall will do.

Didn't Texas majority vote were in favor of the wall? 

 

 

Texas voted for Trump, but most Texans don't want the wall: https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article152402734.html - it's a bit weird because a lot of them still support the President but are opposed to having the wall built, but it's not that weird when you consider that 2 parties are meant to be representing 50 states and their national platforms might not always be in all states interests.

I like eating meat but I also don't think we should be doing things to make certain species going extinct. Carnivores exist in nature, mass farms don't and most of those big fucking farming companies are evil, so no surprise they're fucking the environment over... but at the same time, are they doing anything that makes wolves go extinct? I don't think you necessarily have to be a vegan to not want animals to go extinct. It's just another reason the wall is a stupid idea.

I think a wall to provide security from drugs coming into the country is like having a massive gaping wound and trying to put a plaster on it. Ironically, if America addressed it's drug problem in any meaningful way... it would go a long way to fix Mexico up as being on the drug route to the US has truly fucked Mexico over. But the fact is, America has a massive drug problem. Addicts have provided a market and they will pay to get their drugs - so you'll always have organised crime trying to fill that need in the market. It's supply and demand, really - even if the supply is made more difficult, unless the demand for drugs is brought down there will always be someone finding ways to fill that demand.

And if the investment into the wall is just that... an investment into a physical wall... then it's not going to do a god damn thing to stem the flow of drugs into the US. It's just going to be a waste. If it's an investment into giving the Coast Guard & Border Patrol, etc., more supplies that's a lot more reasonable. But I don't think that's what Trump's suggested at all - he's given no indication that his "wall" is metaphorical for just a stronger overall southern border. And if he has, he's taken metaphorical to a whole new level by suggesting that it's a big beautiful concrete wall. Although now he wants steel slats. But regardless, I think it's safe to assume he's not talking about funding for the Coast Guard being made out of steel slats.

There's no easy answer to America's drug problem though. Most addicts need treatment to beat their addiction, but there's a shitload of obstacles in their way (some are their own fault and those obstacles stem directly from their addictions, some aren't really their fault either). But it's also difficult to get the general voting public to vote "compassionately" with regards to drug law enforcement - people see sentencing people to treatment instead of jailtime as lenience. I don't think it's so much compassion as it is sensible - society is better off if non-violent drug offenders get treatment instead of a criminal sentence personally.

I also think doctors have played a pretty big part in the rise in opium addiction. After my motorcycle crash, the doctors here gave me a prescription for oxycontin with 4 fucking refills. I didn't get a single refill. Seems like overkill. And for my recent hand surgery I got some pain pills that I didn't need at all. But these are addictive downers and after the motorcycle crash, if I had wanted to I could have easily gotten prescriptions refilled and made quite a bit of cash selling that shit. And that shit is basically heroin. It seems pretty easy for someone to get addicted if they're taking strong drugs and the directions on the bottle say to take them very regularly... its basically directions on how to get addicted to opiates. If I didn't know what oxy was, I probably would have taken shitloads of it as the bottle told me to...

It's one of those things like American homelessness (which also has ties with America's drug problem) - it's a massive issue, it's pretty jarring. But at the same time, all the fixes that are proposed by politicians are plasters on the massive gaping wound. Which is probably because these are societal issues that are difficult to address effectively, require long-term planning and patience (which politicians don't have as the focus will shift to reelection from time to time). And at the same time, the public might want to do more about the situation... but a lot of people also don't want to see their taxpayer money being spent trying to help people that don't seem to want to even help themselves.

I don't see either of those situations getting better anytime soon tbh. It would take something massive like adopting drug laws like Portugal, which I can't ever see happening in the US or UK ever. But politicians generally are in it for easy fixes that can be accomplished in a short time (ideally within an election cycle) so they have a thing to point at and say "look what I did for you." It's a harder sell to get votes when you say "look how I took your money and what I did for this homeless smackhead... you will slowly see the benefits of this policy over time, your grandchildren will live in a cleaner and safer world." Shit like infrastructure overhaul though - that's a non-controversial way of spending taxpayer money that any party could get an easy win with.

But that's a long aside on how I don't think the wall would do anything meaningful for stopping the flow of drugs into the country. I think it would actually be more effective in preventing illegal immigrants from coming across the border - and as I said before, most illegal immigrants aren't crossing from the southern border... they're people overstaying their visas. Meaningful drug policies that address the demand for drugs, as well as policies that continue to go after the suppliers of drugs is how you'll see drug abuse stats go down.

[Harry]

The wall is a philosophical debate about the statement made by the United states in building a wall to keep the Mexicans out in this day and age. 

The are backups to not passing a budget which are passing continuing resolutions or other short term stop gap measures. These have all been used a ad infinitum ad it's been 10 or more years since Congress and the white house House all signed off on a budget. 

It's a great issue to demonstrate dysfunction of the american political system. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

The wall is a philosophical debate about the statement made by the United states in building a wall to keep the Mexicans out in this day and age. 

The are backups to not passing a budget which are passing continuing resolutions or other short term stop gap measures. These have all been used a ad infinitum ad it's been 10 or more years since Congress and the white house House all signed off on a budget. 

It's a great issue to demonstrate dysfunction of the american political system. 

Wow, I had no idea but that's mental.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Mueller's latest filings indicate that former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort was giving polling information to Russian intelligence officials.

[Harry]

So how about dat humanitarian crisis on the Mexican border? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

So how about dat humanitarian crisis on the Mexican border? 

Lol if there's any humanitarian crisis, it's one he's caused by locking up asylum seekers and separating kids from their families.

[Harry]

It's just staggering to me still that a lying cunt like trump is the president.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

It's just staggering to me still that a lying cunt like trump is the president.

Meanwhile the FDA is out of funding for the year so food health and safety standards enforcement has abruptly shut.

Some fucking super power.

[Harry]

Give him a break. He's still reeling from the humanitarian crisis down south.

[Azeem]

Trump specifically asked the border patrol how many Pakistanis were arrested  He cares 

[MUFC]

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Roger Stone indicted and arrested 

and the great negotiator has ceded to the democrats for 3 weeks to reopen the government because holding the government hostage for a wall (that already exists mind you) was hurting his popularity 

[Machado]

Hey look, Trump fixed Global Warming 

[Harry]

What annoys me is he will not get his wall money but yet he will still sell it as a win to his fan base