Group B - R2 - Wales 0-2 Iran - Friday 25th November, 2022

[Spike]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It’s like calling every southeast Asian Chinese 

They will be right in fifty years.

[Michael]

6 hours ago, Lucas said:

I heard his post match comments and whilst I wouldn't say they were racist, it was a terrible take from Klinsmann, not least because Iran dominated the game, had way more chances and deservedly won. Wales can literally have no complaints, they did nothing.

Klinsmann suggested Iran got in the referee's face, the bench were constantly appealling for decisions, the players used the dark arts with niggly fouls and gamesmanship to gain an advantage. 

And water is wet.

But what has probably wound people up is that he said it's part of Iranian culture. That didn't really need to be said so I can see why people would take offence.

I didn't think they were like that at all against us and I really didn't think they acted like shithouses today. I've seen far worse from Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Portugal and Italy.

Klinsmann said, 'This is their culture, they take you off your game'. He went on to say that Iran 'worked' the referee and that, 'it would have been different, with a different referee.' Klinsmann didn't mean to be racist. It's clear that he meant what he said in a footballing context, and he had a point, but that's not to take away from Iran's win. He meant what he said regarding Iran's footballing culture and not their literal culture. He could have worded it better, but we should all understand what he meant, and he is German after all.

Iran didn't dominate the game either, they probably had more of the better chances throughout the match, but Wales had most of the possession. At half-time Wales had like 69% possession and even at full-time and despite the fact they had a player sent off, they still ended up with 62% possession overall. So they were the team who had the ball most of the match, as Iran defended, and counter attacked when they could. In terms of big chances, Wales had like 2 big chances through Moore and Davies, both saved by the Iranian keeper. While excluding their goals, Iran hit the post twice in quick succession, then late on, there was a shot from an Iranian player, that forced Hennessey into a save. These were all the big chances of the game. Not including other efforts from long range by both teams that were comfortably saved by both respective keepers, or when Iran had the ball in the net with a clear offside.  Brennan Johnson got in good positions when he came on, but ultimately his final ball let him down.

Allen was literally at fault for both Iran's goals, as he gave away possession so cheaply on both occasions. He didn't even have the excuse of being tired, as he had come on late as a substitute. It was cruel for Wales to have conceded in the 98th minute and 101st minute, having tried their best to trying to hold on with 10 men late on. But despite Allen's blunders, Iran deserve credit for taking their chances to score and secure the win.

[Dan+]

Iran clearly the better team. I feel vindicated after taking a bit of a hammering from mates by saying I thought they'd qualify. Even if they don't, they've shown something.

I've got a slight soft spot for them as a team to be honest. Obviously very limited but one of those sides you feel really play to the maximum of their ability, a collective effort, I like seeing sides like that rewarded.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

If Klinnsman said that Iran were a bunch of diving time wasting shithouses and that Quiroz was a master of this kind of game, then he has told 0 lies. I watch the middle eastern teams play the asian cup and in WC qualifying and they are worse than the south americans in this respect, no matter which nation it is. 

[Michael]

4 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

If Klinnsman said that Iran were a bunch of diving time wasting shithouses and that Quiroz was a master of this kind of game, then he has told 0 lies. I watch the middle eastern teams play the asian cup and in WC qualifying and they are worse than the south americans in this respect, no matter which nation it is. 

The Iranians did do a lot of niggling and they also went in hard with their tackles(other referees might have sent an Iranian player off against Wales), and they try to influence the referees' decisions by trying to pressure him. This is what Klinsmann was alluding to. It's just like you suggest, what Iran and other Middle Eastern teams tend to do more so than other teams. It can be said that it's a part of their footballing culture. I don't understand the criticism of Klinsmann and that's not to take away from Iran's win, at the end of the day they did what they had to do and won. But Wales had most of the play and possession in this match, yet didn't take advantage of the 2 dangerous chances they had and were generally poor with the final ball after creating attacking moves. The sending off ended any chance Wales had of winning. Iran capitalised and found the net deep into injury time to secure the win. Klinsmann is allowed to critique the game and the fact that he used to dive as a player, shouldn't come into what he analysed throughout this match.

[Dr. Gonzo]

It’d maybe be a more fair complaint if Wales having possession actually led to chances or if that red card was the result of the players getting in the refs face.

And I disagree with you @Michael - other than the actual red card I don’t think either Iran or Wales should have had anyone sent off. And a better ref wouldn’t have needed VAR to get a red card.

Possession also isn’t really indicative of having the better run of the game. Iran had over twice as many chances with far less possession because they played much better than Wales.

In any case, Carlos Quieroz’s response to him is pretty hilarious. Basically calls him a racist and tells him to quit his job.

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It’d maybe be a more fair complaint if Wales having possession actually led to chances or if that red card was the result of the players getting in the refs face.

And I disagree with you @Michael - other than the actual red card I don’t think either Iran or Wales should have had anyone sent off. And a better ref wouldn’t have needed VAR to get a red card.

Possession also isn’t really indicative of having the better run of the game. Iran had over twice as many chances with far less possession because they played much better than Wales.

In any case, Carlos Quieroz’s response to him is pretty hilarious. Basically calls him a racist and tells him to quit his job.

Having more possession is a sign of which team was mainly in control of the game. Especially if it was significantly more possession. Wales had like 69% possession at half-time and 62% possession by the end of the match and that's with having a man sent off. I'd say that's relatively significant. I think I mentioned the main dangerous chances in the match. For the Welsh it was Moore's close-range effort in the 1st half and then Davies shot in the 2nd half. For the Iranians it was them hitting the woodwork twice(although that was all one attacking move really) and later in the game they had a shot that forced the Welsh keeper to tip it round the post. Those were the dangerous chances at goal during the match. So it was pretty close as far as significant chances went.

I wouldn't say that Iran were the much better team either, they deserved their win sure, as they scored the goals to earn it. But the goals were scored in the 98th and 101st minutes of injury time after Wales had a man sent off. If they were so much better as you suggest, then surely, they would have scored earlier, dictated the play more and had more dangerous chances than they actually had. The fact is that it was a close match, which Iran won and congrats to them.

I am sorry, but I think that Quieroz is going over the top with his comments regarding what Klinsmann said. Jurgen was merely talking in footballing terms, nothing to do with the actual culture of Middle Easterners. The Iranian players were going in hard with their challenges and there was a lot of niggling going on. Klinsmann talked about the Iranian players and staff on the bench, always talking to the 4th official and the linesmen, constantly in their face. These are all observations made by Klinsmann and that is actually what happened. Ian Rush and Gaby Logan who were on the panel were also agreeing with him. Quieroz has clearly responded in the way that he has, because he got offended that Klinsmann said that he failed as manager of Colombia and Egypt. For Quieroz to suggest that Klinsmann is a racist, is quite frankly a bit outrageous.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Michael said:

Having more possession is a sign of which team was mainly in control of the game. Especially if it was significantly more possession. Wales had like 69% possession at half-time and 62% possession by the end of the match and that's with having a man sent off. I'd say that's relatively significant. I think I mentioned the main dangerous chances in the match. For the Welsh it was Moore's close-range effort in the 1st half and then Davies shot in the 2nd half. For the Iranians it was them hitting the woodwork twice(although that was all one attacking move really) and later in the game they had a shot that forced the Welsh keeper to tip it round the post. Those were the dangerous chances at goal during the match. So it was pretty close as far as significant chances went.

I wouldn't say that Iran were the much better team either, they deserved their win sure, as they scored the goals to earn it. But the goals were scored in the 98th and 101st minutes of injury time after Wales had a man sent off. If they were so much better as you suggest, then surely, they would have scored earlier, dictated the play more and had more dangerous chances than they actually had. The fact is that it was a close match, which Iran won and congrats to them.

I am sorry, but I think that Quieroz is going over the top with his comments regarding what Klinsmann said. Jurgen was merely talking in footballing terms, nothing to do with the actual culture of Middle Easterners. The Iranian players were going in hard with their challenges and there was a lot of niggling going on. Klinsmann talked about the Iranian players and staff on the bench, always talking to the 4th official and the linesmen, constantly in their face. These are all observations made by Klinsmann and that is actually what happened. Ian Rush and Gaby Logan who were on the panel were also agreeing with him. Quieroz has clearly responded in the way that he has, because he got offended that Klinsmann said that he failed as manager of Colombia and Egypt. For Quieroz to suggest that Klinsmann is a racist, is quite frankly a bit outrageous.

Tbh I think a lot of the “football culture” comments most pundits make are a bit xenophobic. Nobody says European serial divers have a culture of diving - unless it’s a Portuguese or Spanish team and then it’s part of their culture. But it’s not part of the culture when it’s Robben, or Kane, or Klinsmann.

The fouls thing is imo bullshit. Both sides made challenges that were hard but fair. The referee wanted to be lenient - so lenient he wanted to let a clear red card slide. I prefer that to refs like the one in the US v Wales match that like to throw yellows around for things arbitrarily.

Queiroz is going hard on Klinsmann though because he’s been pissed off at the way the BBC has been treating him and his players & he’s using them to motivate his players and create that “us vs the world” mentality that some managers love.

Is it unfair on Klinsmann? Probably. But it was also funny. He spouts enough shit that he should be ready to receive some flung back at him.

[Stan]

5 hours ago, Michael said:

Having more possession is a sign of which team was mainly in control of the game. Especially if it was significantly more possession.

Depends where on the pitch and what they do with that possession though. 

Having watched my club have Puel and Rodgers manage them with a possession-based tactic, it's not always being in control of the game just because we had possession. 

The old adage comes to mind - it's not how much possession you have that matters, it's what you do with it. 

Spain play a possession based game and did so when they nailed tiki-taka football because they created chances regularly with that possession. No good having 70% possession when majority of that is in your own half doing fuck all with it.