Bluewolf Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 Just now, Devil said: I kiss people at Christmas all time without consent and that's acceptable. It maybe would be weird if I lips kissed them but it still happens. I'm not defending the guy as he's clearly abused his position previously, I just think the kiss has been blown out of proportion. If he'd grabbed her arse or held her beyond what was comfortable then I'd be appalled. Is this a possibility the women as using this situation to finally nail him for previous stuff? All this is killing relationships... I appreciate that unwanted advances or comments are being rightly shunned but if I was out with a girl for the night and we got back to my place and the moment seemed right I am fucked if I am going to run a checklist of choices before making a move.. Can you imagine.. "I was thinking of kissing you now would that be ok?? If the answer is yes then how close do you want me to stand?? Can I grab some arse in the heat of passion or do you only allow hands on hips?? Do you allow tongues on the first kiss or not?? How long should the kiss be??" Fuck off, Just go for it and if you get a slap then you know it's not welcome.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted August 26, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted August 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Bluewolf said: All this is killing relationships... I appreciate that unwanted advances or comments are being rightly shunned but if I was out with a girl for the night and we got back to my place and the moment seemed right I am fucked if I am going to run a checklist of choices before making a move.. Can you imagine.. "I was thinking of kissing you now would that be ok?? If the answer is yes then how close do you want me to stand?? Can I grab some arse in the heat of passion or do you only allow hands on hips?? Do you allow tongues on the first kiss or not?? How long should the kiss be??" Fuck off, Just go for it and if you get a slap then you know it's not welcome.. That's dating and relationships though, not an employer and employee situation which is surely completely different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 Just now, nudge said: That's dating and relationships though, not an employer and employee situation which is surely completely different? I was highlighting the spontaneity of it not the actual work/dating thing.. Of course in a work environment you have to behave and act accordingly but even that can sometimes give way to the odd emotional moment where you don't follow all the rules all of the time.. Work just completed a 'Chase the Sun' run round Wimbledon common on Wednesday night and they were all hugs and kisses on the cheek after raising a grand doing it and 4 of the girls were from our HR team.. I just think there is a line between being unprofessional in general and then the odd moment where emotions get the better of people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted August 26, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted August 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Bluewolf said: I was highlighting the spontaneity of it not the actual work/dating thing.. Of course in a work environment you have to behave and act accordingly but even that can sometimes give way to the odd emotional moment where you don't follow all the rules all of the time.. Work just completed a 'Chase the Sun' run round Wimbledon common on Wednesday night and they were all hugs and kisses on the cheek after raising a grand doing it and 4 of the girls were from our HR team.. I just think there is a line between being unprofessional in general and then the odd moment where emotions get the better of people... But in letting emotions get the better of you and crossing into unprofessionalism shouldn't go unpunished. If you saw it happen at your workplace, how would you feel? Or even worse, if someone did it to you? If you're on the receiving end of it at work, how uncomfortable would you feel at all the inappropriateness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted August 26, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted August 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Bluewolf said: I was highlighting the spontaneity of it not the actual work/dating thing.. Of course in a work environment you have to behave and act accordingly but even that can sometimes give way to the odd emotional moment where you don't follow all the rules all of the time.. Work just completed a 'Chase the Sun' run round Wimbledon common on Wednesday night and they were all hugs and kisses on the cheek after raising a grand doing it and 4 of the girls were from our HR team.. I just think there is a line between being unprofessional in general and then the odd moment where emotions get the better of people... Fair enough, but like you said, it was hugs and kisses on the cheek, not full blown kisses on the lips... And even if it was a spontaneous moment where emotions got the better of him, which can definitely happen, then surely a proper and mature reaction would be apologizing and admitting being in the wrong instead of pressuring the player and her family to support him, falsifying the player's statement, blaming everyone else, threatening legal action and giving bizarre press statements? That's just fucked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 Something tells me Hermoso and Rubiales aren't work besties who kiss each other on the cheek at work dos...you just can't go up to anyone at work, man or woman, grab their face and kiss them on the lips. It's sexual harassment and you're out the door, add to the fact he is so many levels of seniority above her, he's not just crossed a boundary there he's cartwheeled over a multitude of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted August 26, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted August 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Danny said: Something tells me Hermoso and Rubiales aren't work besties who kiss each other on the cheek at work dos...you just can't go up to anyone at work, man or woman, grab their face and kiss them on the lips. It's sexual harassment and you're out the door, add to the fact he is so many levels of seniority above her, he's not just crossed a boundary there he's cartwheeled over a multitude of them. I can't fathom how people can't comprehend this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 33 minutes ago, nudge said: Wtf Think you're being a bit over dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 21 minutes ago, Stan said: But in letting emotions get the better of you and crossing into unprofessionalism shouldn't go unpunished. If you saw it happen at your workplace, how would you feel? Or even worse, if someone did it to you? If you're on the receiving end of it at work, how uncomfortable would you feel at all the inappropriateness? I am very old school Stan which means I grew up in a time where all things happened in the workplace and although elements of it are being rightly tackled I just don't get shocked at some peoples behaviour no matter how out of place it might seem. I had my arse pinched on the stairs a couple of weeks ago by one of the girls in the office as she was passing me and I just smiled to myself but if it had been the other way round I am pretty sure I would have been sacked for inappropriate behaviour or sexual harassment.. 18 minutes ago, nudge said: Fair enough, but like you said, it was hugs and kisses on the cheek, not full blown kisses on the lips... And even if it was a spontaneous moment where emotions got the better of him, which can definitely happen, then surely a proper and mature reaction would be apologizing and admitting being in the wrong instead of pressuring the player and her family to support him, falsifying the player's statement, blaming everyone else, threatening legal action and giving bizarre press statements? That's just fucked up. If all of the things are true then yes he needs a good kicking because that's way ott and completely unprofessional.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted August 26, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted August 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Devil said: Think you're being a bit over dramatic. Not at all. I just assume that people that you kiss "without consent" on Christmas are either your family, relatives, or friends, which is a completely different thing altogether, and it baffles me if you don't see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted August 26, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted August 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: If all of things are true then yes he needs a good kicking because that's way ott and completely unprofessional.. Yeah that's what's being reported so far. And I think that's the main point - it's the whole context that matters, not just the act of kissing itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted August 26, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted August 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: I had my arse pinched on the stairs a couple of weeks ago by one of the girls in the office as she was passing me and I just smiled to myself but if it had been the other way round I am pretty sure I would have been sacked for inappropriate behaviour or sexual harassment And rightly so. If you reported that because it was unwanted or you deemed it inappropriate then hopefully your workplace would have measures in place to protect you. You can be as old school as you want. But in modern times the rules are changing to protect people and stop employees being sexually assaulted or treated inappropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted August 26, 2023 Moderator Share Posted August 26, 2023 1 hour ago, nudge said: Well...https://www.football-espana.net/2022/09/15/luis-rubiales-accused-of-hosting-orgies-with-money-from-spanish-football-federation Was it a Christmas party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stan said: And rightly so. If you reported that because it was unwanted or you deemed it inappropriate then hopefully your workplace would have measures in place to protect you. You can be as old school as you want. But in modern times the rules are changing to protect people and stop employees being sexually assaulted or treated inappropriately. Mate, I have been working for eons all the way back to the days where page 3 pin up's were the norm in offices.. I have seen and been involved in all the gradual changes and tweaks that have taken place in the places I have worked over the years including Racism and Health & Safety as well as Harassment and appropriate behaviour but I appreciate you telling me how much it's changed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 15 minutes ago, nudge said: Not at all. I just assume that people that you kiss "without consent" on Christmas are either your family, relatives, or friends, which is a completely different thing altogether, and it baffles me if you don't see that. I've given many a stranger a Christmas or new years kiss spontaneously. Are you trying to imply I'm some sort of sexual deviant because of this? I've also been kissed on the cheek countless times in celebration as well. I don't consider a kiss that much of a intrusion to get my boxers in a twist. Honestly I get you being a female must hate unwanted advances off blokes but in this situation they were celebrating the world cup in front of an audience of millions, he was hardly forcing himself on her in the back room of a club or taxi. Some sheltered lives have been lived if a pecking kiss (no tongue) is deemed sexual assault. Being a father of two girls as well I think I'm fully intune with what I'd find acceptable and unacceptable. To me he's been hung out to dry for this because he's a prick, not because of the kiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted August 26, 2023 Moderator Share Posted August 26, 2023 Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 Maybe it's a culture/religion thing as well. Myself and bluewolf don't think it's as serious as others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tommy said: Wow. Wow! What Honestly does everything in the world offend you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted August 26, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted August 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Devil said: I've given many a stranger a Christmas or new years kiss spontaneously. Are you trying to imply I'm some sort of sexual deviant because of this? I've also been kissed on the cheek countless times in celebration as well. I don't consider a kiss that much of a intrusion to get my boxers in a twist. Honestly I get you being a female must hate unwanted advances off blokes but in this situation they were celebrating the world cup in front of an audience of millions, he was hardly forcing himself on her in the back room of a club or taxi. Some sheltered lives have been lived if a pecking kiss (no tongue) is deemed sexual assault. Being a father of two girls as well I think I'm fully intune with what I'd find acceptable and unacceptable. To me he's been hung out to dry for this because he's a prick, not because of the kiss. You don't seem to understand that your comparison of you kissing willing people on the cheek is completely irrelevant because it is not one bit similar to the situation here. Kissing someone who doesn't want it on the lips without consent and then pressuring that person into defending it publicly IS sexual harassment, whether you like it ir not, especially if it's done by someone in a position of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, nudge said: You don't seem to understand that your comparison of you kissing willing people on the cheek is completely irrelevant because it is not one bit similar to the situation here. Kissing someone who doesn't want it on the lips without consent and then pressuring that person into defending it publicly IS sexual harassment, whether you like it ir not, especially if it's done by someone in a position of power. What don't I understand. I don't think the spontaneous kiss was anywhere near as offensive as its being made out. Whether its from a homeless man on the street or by someone in a powerful position. It was a celebratory moment. The other shit about him trying to force her to back his story is a different matter as is his other shit as I've said over and over. Conversation over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy Posted August 26, 2023 Moderator Share Posted August 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Devil said: What don't I understand. I don't think the spontaneous kiss was anywhere near as offensive as its being made out. Whether its from a homeless man on the street or by someone in a powerful position. It was a celebratory moment. The other shit about him trying to force her to back his story is a different matter as is his other shit as I've said over and over. Conversation over. A man kisses a woman against her will and that's okay? Highly disturbing way to think. Ah shit, I didn't see that the conversation is over. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted August 26, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted August 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Devil said: What don't I understand. I don't think the spontaneous kiss was anywhere near as offensive as its being made out. Whether its from a homeless man on the street or by someone in a powerful position. It was a celebratory moment. The other shit about him trying to force her to back his story is a different matter as is his other shit as I've said over and over. Conversation over. Well, judging from your posts, there are several things that you don't seem to understand, imo, with the key ones being 1) it's not up to you or me or anyone else to decide how offensive or serious it is; it is solely up to the person on the receiving end of it, and she made her feelings pretty clear, 2) the importance of misuse of power and authority in the workplace and overall power dynamics of sexual harassment, and 3) the fact that it's not simply about a kiss in a spontaneous moment of celebration; context matters a lot and that's what is fueling this whole story, so you can't simply ignore it. Anyway, I'm out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 27 minutes ago, Tommy said: A man kisses a woman against her will and that's okay? Highly disturbing way to think. Ah shit, I didn't see that the conversation is over. Apologies. Watched the clip about 20 times, against hwr will my arse. If she didn't want to kiss him or was disgusted by him she could have turned her cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, Devil said: Watched the clip about 20 times, against hwr will my arse. If she didn't want to kiss him or was disgusted by him she could have turned her cheek. At what point could she move? When he had his arms wrapped round her back and neck or when he held her face with both of his hands? But the point is even if she could move, she shouldn't have to move from an unwanted kiss on the lips from her boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted August 26, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted August 26, 2023 I'm seriously worried having read some parts of the conversation and how it's played out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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