Westworld

[RandoEFC+]

It's actually really weird looking back at season 3 as part of the big picture. It's like a different show . However you couldn't have season 4 set up the way it has been without season 3.

[Viva la FCB+]

Alright looks like Ive got more homework to do.

[Tommy]

2 hours ago, Viva la FCB said:

Alright looks like Ive got more homework to do.

Looking at Evan Rachel Wood is always a bonus though! Even though they did not really use her acting skills in that season. Same for Aaron Paul (the acting skill bit ). 

[RandoEFC+]

Have people seen the mental Evan Rachel Wood/Marilyn Manson stuff? Dark and insane.

[Tommy]

25 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Have people seen the mental Evan Rachel Wood/Marilyn Manson stuff? Dark and insane.

Tell me the gist of it. 

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Tommy said:

Tell me the gist of it. 

It's kinda gross.

https://twitter.com/RollingStone/status/1503913986043138059?t=xwuh_DWXDP5IEHwV_nyrlw&s=19

[Bluewolf]

3 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Tell me the gist of it. 

Evan Rachel Wood accuses Marilyn Manson of abuse - BBC News

[Tommy]

Is it really surprising though? I mean have you seen the guy? 

I hope she got over it somehow though. Sounds pretty messed up, especially that he groomed and manipulated her when she was still a teenager. 

[Tommy]

To get back on topic though. 

Bernard's death really hit me kind of. Not sure if it was because of the soundtrack which was the same as when he said good bye to Dr. Ford, which was also a scene that stuck with me. But it was the first time in a long time that I actually felt sad for a movie or series character's death. 

When he said "in every scenario......I die", wow. What a great delivery by Jeffrey Wright. Tremendous actor. 

[RandoEFC+]

Season finale.

Thought the episode was alright and wrapped up a solid season.

A few gripes:

They really have no idea how to make use of Maeve since the show moved out of the park. That was evident in season three and it turns out this season the whole big deal about Maeve being this "weapon" was to kill host Jay and distract Hale for like 2 minutes. Didn't really feel like that paid off.

Hale becoming an at least moderately unselfish character overnight felt a bit rushed.

Dolores explaining all the answers to what's been going on with her all season was a bit on the nose.

One more season. Hard to gauge what that will look like and how many of the original cast will be involved besides Evan Rachel Wood and James Marsden although I'm sure they'll find a way to at least include Thandiwe Newton somehow. I'm sure none of us would be surprised to see Jeffrey Wright or Ed Harris pop up again either.

[nudge]

On 09/08/2022 at 16:31, nudge said:

 

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I think that Teddy is the voice in Christina's head the same way Arnold was the voice in Dolores' head in Season 1 - in other words, it's her own inner voice, part of the bicameral mind on the way to gaining consciousness/sentience/awakening.

 

Fucking nailed it.

More thoughts tomorrow after I sleep on it

[Tommy]

Just watched the finale. 

 

I love how the first guy we see is Steven Ogg looking like Travis in GTA 5. I know he played that other character in Westworld before, but he just looked so much like Trevor in this one. 

And yea, Maeve was really under-used this season. Feels a bit underwhelming. 

Also Stubb's death was so anticlimatic. Our boy deserved go out bigger like that, especially not being killed by Clementine, who was basically useless this season too. 

Also what is that last test? Dolores giving humanity one last chance?

And yea, it was weird to suddenly "cheer" for Halores. But credit to Tessa Thompson. She was incredible throughout the season! 

Very confusing season to be honest. Towards the end, I was thinking "This is all so complicated, can't we just go back to the Old West like in Season 1?" And that's exactly how the episode ended.  

 

[RandoEFC+]

I didn't actually find the season confusing overall. I just feel like a lot of the writing has been based around getting Maeve and Caleb in the second half of the season when they may as well have stayed dead. I could stomach the Caleb fidelity episode on the basis that Hale wanted to find out about the outliers but they obviously couldn't be arsed thinking of a good reason to bring him back for the last two episodes because that whole "you're here as bait" thing was just weak. 

They could have used the time in those later episodes to set up the ultimate Hale/William host conflict in the last episode. With both Hale and Clementine it felt like they tried to cram a full season's worth of development into one episode at the end.

Still don't mean to be too negative. The whole parasite/tower storyline was good and the mysteries were set up well throughout and kept things interesting. The Caleb fidelity episode was good as well as a standalone. Frankie was a cool character. Probably the second best season overall after season one.

[nudge]

So, some more thoughts on the finale and Season 4 in general.

 

First of all, I thouroughly enjoyed Season 4. Felt like the show got back to its roots after seemingly abandoning it in Season 3 where generic action became the focus point instead of a highly nuanced story with a lot of clever concepts from philosophy, psychology & sciences. That's also the thing I like most about this season - it once again explored multiple "big" themes and topics concerning human nature, consciousness and free will, amongst others. 

That said, I do agree with some points of criticism. For me, the biggest one was a rushed transformation of Halores which suddenly made her decide to join the good side again. It's not hard for me to believe that she was conflicted from the very start; there were also quite a few signs suggesting it (her scars, her emotions), but once again, it seems like most of the transformation happen off-screen again, just like the one Dolores went through in Season 3.
Maeve's role is frustrating, too. As a massive fan of her character, I'm disappointed how poorly used it was, all things considered. She was supposed to be special, and yet both her actions and her death(s) feel wasted as it doesn't matter much in the big picture. Just like after every other season, I do hope she is given a more important role to play in the next (and final?) season. I expect to be disappointed again though.

Alright, so now onto the most interesting unknowns that I'm very curious about.
The biggest one - what happens in Season 5? If I understood it correctly, the main outcome in Season 4 was that everyone on Earth in the real physical world is dead - this was the end of human civilisation; we essentially self-destructed. Dolores accepted the challenge for one more "test" though - that is, to give sentient life one more chance, to recreate humanity in a virtual world in the Sublime in which she recreates humans (and hosts) from her memory, and I imagine that the final goal is to rebuild humanity and repopulate the real world after the humans (or rather the copies of human minds Dolores has saved in her memory) pass the test successfully. But what exactly is this test going to be? Or rather, what would humans need to successfully pass it? Get rid of the self-destructive nature? Make better choices? Break out of their loops? If that's the case, then we'll have a new species of evolved humans, a hybrid of an evolved human mind and a stronger, more robust host body; a new people that truly have free will and are capable of change. 

What's interesting is that from a certain perspective, all events throughout Season 1 to 4 can also be seen as one massive endless loop, and now we're going to the "start" - Westworld - back again. I just hope we get Season 5 for real and this is not a cop out for how the whole story ends in case the show doesn't get renewed. While it's an interesting idea, it doesn't offer any proper satisfactory resolution to the story at all.

[RandoEFC+]

They said from the start they were planning for five seasons. Is it generous to therefore suggest that whatever Season 5's overarching plot and ideas are, that's been the plan from the start? Maybe .

[Tommy]

@nudge @RandoEFC

[nudge]

43 minutes ago, Tommy said:

@nudge @RandoEFC

That's disappointing. I would have understood if they cancelled it after Season 3, but Season 4 was a massive improvement, and it would have been nice to finish the story properly. Meh.

[RandoEFC+]

I feel that the end of season 4 was alright but the way they left it, could easily have been to set up a new season or to finish the whole show.

I thought I'd be disappointed to see this news but to be honest, the premise they had set up for season five, I wasn't really that excited about it. I don't find myself overly devastated by this news as a result.

The first season of the show was still a masterpiece in my book and up there with any season of any show on television that I can think of.

[Viva la FCB+]

Well this does make it easier to catch up then, glad they where looking out for me  I do think Ill go back and start from the beginning again at some point. I want to relive how great that first season was. Maybe it will reignite my interest in finishing it.