Has The Champions League Grown Stale?

[Danny]

If anyone knows how I can edit this with code tags as opposed to them being in code that would be great...

Based off of the back of the Champions League vs European Cup argument.

Over the last ten years the Champions League has been won by 6 different sides, however ten years before that it was one more with 7 different sides.

3 to Real Madrid

3 to Barcelona

1 to Chelsea

1 to Inter

1 to United.

1 to Bayern.

 

Below are the semi finalists of the last ten years...

 

The last 10 years there have been 40 semi finalists in the tournament, of the 40, 30 of those semi finalists have been occupied by 6 of the same clubs and after Juventus, there are 8 clubs who've made one appearance each:

Real Madrid - 7

Barce - 7

Bayern - 6

Chelsea - 4

Man United - 3

Atletico Madrid - 3

Juventus - 2

Monaco - 1

Manchester City - 1

Dortmund - 1

Schalke - 1

Arsenal - 1

Lyon - 1

Inter - 1

Liverpool - 1

 

Below are the semi finalists of the ten before that...

 

Compare the last 10 years to the 10 years prior to that....last ten years 6 of the same teams made up 30 finalists and 9 teams made up the rest...the 10 years before that it was 11 teams making up the 30 finalists and 10 teams made up the rest.

Real - 5

Milan - 4

Chelsea - 3

Man United - 3

Barce - 3

Juventus - 3

Bayern - 3

Valencia - 2

Liverpool - 2

Arsenal - 1

Villarreal - 1

PSV - 1

Monaco - 1

Porto - 1 

Deportivo - 1

Inter - 1

Leverkusen - 1

Leeds - 1

Dynamo - 1

Dortmund - 1

Monaco - 1

 

Do you still find it interesting? Obviously the group games are generally non-starters from a competitive point of view and only really offer midweek football to be watched and money to be made, however once the knock-outs kick off and the excitement begins, generally the same teams keep making it to the latter rounds. I think the biggest example of it going stale are not so much in the last ten years as a whole, but specifically the last 5 or so. Recently you've known that if Real Madrid don't win it and Barce don't...you're probably going to see Bayern win it at some point and I think we can all agree there was no excitement in watching Chelsea park their expensive bus to win it.

Atletico were refreshing but also went stale, Juventus offered hope but have failed pretty badly in both finals and now you don't see another Italian team in the mix I find they're getting a bit boring too. Personally I miss seeing one of the Milan teams in there (would love to see Napoli or Roma), or a French team that wasn't oil money backed. It was exciting seeing Dortmund offer competition from Germany (Schalke did but got hammered in the end) and it was exciting when both Liverpool and Arsenal were competitive too. Seeing teams like Lyon, Schalke, PSV, Valencia and Deportivo make it to the semis at least was exciting for the competition and for European football in general...now you're pretty much resigned to seeing Bayern, Real Madrid, Barce and Atletico make it that far.

In fact here are the numbers for semi finals the last 4 years...Real Madrid (4), Atletico Madrid (3), Bayern Munich (3), Juventus (2), Barcelona (1), Chelsea (1), Man City (1) and Monaco (1). 16 potential different semi finalists and 10 of those semi finalists were made out of 3 of the same clubs...hardly exciting.

It was a shame Napoli got knocked out because they seem the sort of side that could have gone far...this season in fact looks like it could be the first time in a while things get mixed up with at least 5 English sides in the knock out stages...we can't be that shit not to go through and I can see Man City and Liverpool going further than the rest.

[ScoRoss]

It's the shrinking middle class that is the biggest problem to a truly competitive Champions League. And with the big league getting even more automatic spots from next year, it's not going to change anytime soon.

[Cicero]

Arsenal are not in the Champions League. Atletico got knocked down to Europa after many predicting them to win their group. 

Spurs just took the piss out of the italian champions and topped their group ahead of Real. 

Liverpool demolished a Porto side with a great home record. 

Real Madrid, although shite, got the better of Neymar and his overhyped PSG. 

Sevilla looks to have the upper hand against United. 

And Chelsea vs Barca, a classic champions league affair, was drawn in the round of 16. 

 

Hardly stale. Especially when people moaned how poorly English clubs have been doing in Europe. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Nah I don't think so.

[SirBalon]

I think it’s the same as always only that English clubs are doing much better this season. Infact we have smaller clubs respecting the history of the Champions League/European Cup like Spurs and Sevilla doing well which is a good thing for me.  

[ScoRoss]

24 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

I think it’s the same as always only that English clubs are doing much better this season. Infact we have smaller clubs respecting the history of the Champions League/European Cup like Spurs and Sevilla doing well which is a good thing for me.  

Smaller clubs? 

[Guest]

I've been saying this since about 4 years ago.

The race is stale yes, but the matches are hardly boring. I prefer the Libertadores 100 times but the thing is, here in South America everyone is a selling club, so its obvious we're going to see different champions. In Europe, its not like that. Money is rampant in the continent when it comes to football and its pretty clear as to why we see similar winners.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Smaller clubs? 

He never said they are small clubs, he said they are "smaller" clubs, which is true. You're not comparing Spurs and Sevilla to Barcelona, Madrid or Bayern are you?

[ScoRoss]

Just now, Blue said:

He never said they are small clubs, he said they are "smaller" clubs, which is true. You're not comparing Spurs and Sevilla to Barcelona, Madrid or Bayern are you?

It's just funny seeing them set up as the 'The Little Engine That Could'.

Oh, what a story of overcoming adversity for these clubs from the two richest leagues in the world.

[Guest]

Just now, ScoRoss said:

It's just funny seeing them set up as the 'The Little Engine That Could'.

Oh, what a story of overcoming adversity for these clubs from the two richest leagues in the world.

I hope you're not serious, both Sevilla and Spurs have limited resources compared to the biggest clubs. Juventus should be taking the piss out of a team like Spurs when you compare squad to squad, and that's not how its turned out. At least not yet. 

So it won't be impressive to see Sevilla knock out Manchester United?

[God is Haaland]

It's scripted.

[ScoRoss]

Just now, Blue said:

I hope you're not serious, both Sevilla and Spurs have limited resources compared to the biggest clubs. Juventus should be taking the piss out of a team like Spurs when you compare squad to squad, and that's not how its turned out. At least not yet. 

So it won't be impressive to see Sevilla knock out Manchester United?

Every year it gets harder and harder for clubs outside the big four league make it further in the Champions League, that's the biggest disparity that European football has.

This year the big four leagues make up 11 of the last 16. In 2016/17, it was 12 and in 2015/16, it was 10. So out of the 48 teams, only 15 came from outside of the top four leagues. And three of them were PSG, hardly strapped for cash.

Forgive me for having no strong feelings about 'smaller' clubs from England and Spain, when the rest of the continent is being left behind and only to be shut out further.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Every year it gets harder and harder for clubs outside the big four league make it further in the Champions League, that's the biggest disparity that European football has.

This year the big four leagues make up 11 of the last 16. In 2016/17, it was 12 and in 2015/16, it was 10. So out of the 48 teams, only 15 came from outside of the top four leagues. And three of them were PSG, hardly strapped for cash.

Forgive me for having no strong feelings about 'smaller' clubs from England and Spain, when the rest of the continent is being left behind and only to be shut out further.

On that logic, Leicester City are a massive club just because they play in the Premier League and were in the Champions League.

I still consider Ajax, Feyenoord, Benfica and Marseille huge clubs and just because they can't make it far in the UCL, doesn't make them small. South American football has lost prestige, but some of the big clubs here will be big forever even if they can't stand up to the Europeans or can match them financially.

Universitario are 200 million dollars in debt, that doesn't mean they aren't one of the 2 big clubs in Peru. Grandeur is historic, not only in the present.

[ScoRoss]

5 minutes ago, Blue said:

On that logic, Leicester City are a massive club just because they play in the Premier League and were in the Champions League.

I still consider Ajax, Feyenoord, Benfica and Marseille huge clubs and just because they can't make it far in the UCL, doesn't make them small. South American football has lost prestige, but some of the big clubs here will be big forever even if they can't stand up to the Europeans or can match them financially.

Universitario are 200 million dollars in debt, that doesn't mean they aren't one of the 2 big clubs in Peru. Grandeur is historic, not only in the present.

How have you got that from my post? 

I was pointing out how difficult it has become for clubs outside the big four league to compete with them anymore. They simply can't compete financially and any good team that they put together is broken up almost instantly, see Monaco or Ajax. The Champions League has almost become a closed shop to these clubs anymore and next season it's going to be even worse.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

How have you got that from my post? 

I was pointing out how difficult it has become for clubs outside the big four league to compete with them anymore. They simply can't compete financially and any good team that they put together is broken up almost instantly, see Monaco or Ajax. The Champions League has almost become a closed shop to these clubs anymore and next season it's going to be even worse.

Yeah, I'm not saying its not true.

But you're saying that Spurs and Sevilla aren't smaller clubs. I'm telling you that they are.

[Smiley Culture]

There's such a disparity in terms of teams within the Champions League between the super rich and the 'less' rich that the Group Stages, especially, are pretty mundane and almost run of the mill.

The Champions League Group Stages have lost any competitive nature it had and in all honesty, the Europa League, though the secondary competition and lacking some of the names and big stars of the Champions League, is more competitive these days due to the lack of disparity between the sides competing.

The amount of games in the Champions League Group Stages over the past five years with a 3+ goal winning margin:

2017/18 - 29, 2016/17 - 21, 2015/16 - 18, 2014/15 - 21, 2013/14 - 25. Total - 114/480. 24%

The amount of games in the Europa League Group Stages over the past five years with a 3+ goal winning margin:

2017/18 - 23, 2016/17 - 17, 2015/16 - 20, 2014/15 - 26, 2013/14 - 17 Total - 103/720. 14%

[ScoRoss]

10 minutes ago, Blue said:

Yeah, I'm not saying its not true.

But you're saying that Spurs and Sevilla aren't smaller clubs. I'm telling you that they are.

Don't tell me what I'm saying. I know what I've wrote and you've completely missed my point time and time again.

I never made any comparison between Tottenham and Barcelona as you suggested I have.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ScoRoss said:

Don't tell me what I'm saying. I know what I've wrote and you've completely missed my point time and time again.

I never made any comparison between Tottenham and Barcelona as you suggested I have.

I haven't though have I?

Sevilla and Spurs are smaller clubs. I don't think anyone actually counts the teams in San Marino or Andorra early on in the competition. People only pay attention from the group stage and onwards. Fact.

[ScoRoss]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

I haven't though have I?

Sevilla and Spurs are smaller clubs. I don't think anyone actually counts the teams in San Marino or Andorra early on in the competition. People only pay attention from the group stage and onwards. Fact.

You said I made Leicester City a massive club. Pretty sure I never said anything like that. You've failed to understand most of my posts, maybe that's my fault for not being clear enough?

Maybe for people who only pay attention to the glamour teams. In Scotland, European football starts in July like many other nations in Europe. I'm pretty sure all those supporters care a little bit more about it than someone half way across the world pretending to be knowledgeable.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

You said I made Leicester City a massive club. Pretty sure I never said anything like that. You've failed to understand most of my posts, maybe that's my fault for not being clear enough?

Maybe for people who only pay attention to the glamour teams. In Scotland, European football starts in July like many other nations in Europe. I'm pretty sure all those supporters care a little bit more about it than someone half way across the world pretending to be knowledgeable.

Yes, I get that. Here in Peru its the same. However, only the Scots care for those games, in the same way only Peruvians care for a game between Sport Huancayo and Boston River. For general public though, only the later stages are of interest. Do you really think someone in Switzlerland will care for a game between Hearts and CSKA Sofia?

[Guest]

Deleted

[ScoRoss]

Just now, Blue said:

Yes, I get that. Here in Peru its the same. However, only the Scots care for those games, in the same way only Peruvians care for a game between Sport Huancayo and Boston River. For general public though, only the later stages are of interest. Do you really think a Bulgarian will care for a game between Hearts and CSKA Sofia?

I think the fans in the stands care and that's all that matters. Massive countries have been forced into playing second fiddle and giving up hope, not just of not winning, but of not even competing anymore. How it is good for football, Europe-wide, to see Porto, Basel, and Besiktas so far behind clubs that the tie is dead before even the second leg? Is that entertaining for anyone?

[Guest]

Just now, ScoRoss said:

I think the fans in the stands care and that's all that matters. Massive countries have been forced into playing second fiddle and giving up hope, not just of not winning, but of not even competing anymore. How it is good for football, Europe-wide, to see Porto, Basel, and Besiktas so far behind clubs that the tie is dead before even the second leg? Is that entertaining for anyone?

I've moaned about how the UCL is stale for the past 4 years now, but I still watch it because the matches are always good albeit not giving a shit about the race. My example stands, apart from the awful part where I said a Bulgarian wouldn't care about CSKA Sofia (trust me I came up with whatever was in my head) general public only cares about the later stages and to most people Sevilla and Spurs are smaller clubs. If we're talking about just strength, they are somewhat overachieving, or about to reach "overachieving" grounds. Because you could argue those are the amongst the weakest teams left in the competition.

SirBalon said it, not me and it kind of proves my point. I don't think he cares about the earlier stages of the UCL. Everything you said about Basel, Ajax, Benfica and it getting more difficult to go far in the UCL, its not untrue but that doesn't mean that Sevilla and Spurs are not smaller teams. The only thing that doesn't qualify for "smaller teams" in my eyes are teams that have been in the competition for years on end and have gained a reputation because of it. That means Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus and to an extent, even Manchester City and Chelsea. Man United too, given how much they've been spending compared to everyone else in recent years.

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, ScoRoss said:

Smaller clubs? 

I seem to have created a situation with my quirk in the middle of my meaningful personal point of view comment. 

The bit about Spurs and Sevilla being smaller clubs that have done well this season in the Champions League was meant as a joke in the middle of my comment which I meant (even that actually). I sometimes add those things like I did earlier today in the Real Madrid thread with some breaking news on Gareth Bale... I added a (quirk) little stab at Real Madrid in there with actual news. 

In this case I wanted to stick it to Spurs in there somewhere but masked it with adding Sevilla. 

[Danny]

It is funny when clubs like Spurs and Sevilla get the Cinderella story treatment but maybe that's just a product of the Champions League now. The money clubs make from it, as well as their own leagues, Real Madrid, Barce, Bayern, Juve etc....blow everyone else out of the water.

English clubs have made a bit of a fightback this season but I don't think that really livens it up for anyone else...Chelsea and Man City's oil money, United are a historic team expected to be up there and Spurs are just enjoying their moment in the sun.

Seeing the smaller "big" sides like Porto, Beskitas etc get blow out or consistently knocked out at the Round of 16 is hardly exciting, look at the clubs essentially relegated to the Europa League forever...Ajax, PSV, Benfica, Marseille, Lyon, Celtic, Galatasary, Fener,. You have to go back to Liverpool and Porto for the last "shock" wins and you only have to look at my first post to see the difference in semi finalists between the last two decades to see how the competition is closing out for the elite few.