FC Barcelona Discussion

[bozziovai]

On 4/17/2018 at 13:49, Paulo Dybala said:

A bit lengthy but well worth a read. 

 

" While the domestic league is about remaining consistent for 9 months, the Champions League is simply about performing on the day, which requires having the absolute best starting XI (and a few key bench players) as well as having the versatility to handle all types of teams."

 

"This is where Real Madrid have the edge over their rivals. They have the best right back, the best left back, the best CB pairing, the best midfield, the best striker and, crucially, have the ability to win in a number of ways. They are incredibly versatile."

 

That's the very nature of cup competition vs league isn't it?

 

That means that Real Madrid are mere CUP SPECIALISTS LOLOLOL! ROFLMFAO!

 

I'm glad that we're not competing for a Treble Treble this season. It would be oh so sweet to achieve that in MADRID next season's Champions League Final venue. (Most likely in Istanbul the year after next, which won't have quite the same impact).

 

To win the domestic double this season, have Madrid lose vs Bayern in the Champions League, and us to SMASH them into submission in the El Clasico at the Camp Nou on May 6th? Yes please!!

 

 

proof that some people have very short memories when it comes to sports in general and football to be specific in this one.    Madrid have won the double last year with the UCL and La Liga.     I find it very immature when some fans try to discredit any achievement of a rival team.

[Carnivore Chris]

1 hour ago, bozziovai said:

 

proof that some people have very short memories when it comes to sports in general and football to be specific in this one.    Madrid have won the double last year with the UCL and La Liga.     I find it very immature when some fans try to discredit any achievement of a rival team.

We see it from both sides in truth mate. On one hand (some) Real fans are trying to discredit Barcelona's domestic double due to the fact they(Real) are still in the Champions league, while you have (some) Barcelona fans almost refusing to acknowledge Barcelona's success this season unless Real Madrid don't win the Champions League. It's very petty.

It's actually healthy for Barcelona that Real Madrid are strong challengers and that they win trophies. Had Barcelona won everything over the last decade and Real absolutely nothing at all, then it would make Spanish football look weak to outsiders. It would look as though Barcelona's success has come due to the fact that Real have been going through an awful period and simply been taken advantage of. The fact they are causing all these problems makes it more of an achievement, more competitive. Let's not forget the Supercopa de España earlier in the year either. Pique said after the game that he's never known Real to be so far superior to Barcelona since his time at the club and within 9 months, Barcelona have just gone and dominated the Spanish league and won another Copa Del rey. It's a big achievement.

The Champions league was embarrassing due to the manner, althou8gh not necessarily being eliminated itself as I didn't think Barcelona were going to go all the way this season anyway. Valverde needs more depth and a couple of players in, then I believe he can certainly go on and achieve another European cup. The loss of Iniesta will make that more difficult, although with the young Dembele and Coutinho almost being like new signings next season after a full pre-season, then I believe the team can evolve. Ter Stegen, Busquets, Alba, Messi and Suarez are all capable of making things happen and with the likes of Coutinho, Umtiti, Dembele and Semedo to complement them I see a very capable side there, with a perfect balance of experienced players and hungry, younger players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Samuel Eto'o]

45 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

We see it from both sides in truth mate. On one hand (some) Real fans are trying to discredit Barcelona's domestic double due to the fact they(Real) are still in the Champions league, while you have (some) Barcelona fans almost refusing to acknowledge Barcelona's success this season unless Real Madrid don't win the Champions League. It's very petty.

It's actually healthy for Barcelona that Real Madrid are strong challengers and that they win trophies. Had Barcelona won everything over the last decade and Real absolutely nothing at all, then it would make Spanish football look weak to outsiders. It would look as though Barcelona's success has come due to the fact that Real have been going through an awful period and simply been taken advantage of. The fact they are causing all these problems makes it more of an achievement, more competitive. Let's not forget the Supercopa de España earlier in the year either. Pique said after the game that he's never known Real to be so far superior to Barcelona since his time at the club and within 9 months, Barcelona have just gone and dominated the Spanish league and won another Copa Del rey. It's a big achievement.

The Champions league was embarrassing due to the manner, althou8gh not necessarily being eliminated itself as I didn't think Barcelona were going to go all the way this season anyway. Valverde needs more depth and a couple of players in, then I believe he can certainly go on and achieve another European cup. The loss of Iniesta will make that more difficult, although with the young Dembele and Coutinho almost being like new signings next season after a full pre-season, then I believe the team can evolve. Ter Stegen, Busquets, Alba, Messi and Suarez are all capable of making things happen and with the likes of Coutinho, Umtiti, Dembele and Semedo to complement them I see a very capable side there, with a perfect balance of experienced players and hungry, younger players.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proof positive that the relationship between the eternal rivals Barca and Real Madrid is a symbiotic one. One's success cannot exist without the other.  One's success only spurs the other on. Just like Messi and Ronaldo could not possibly in the conversation for the Greatest Player of All Time if not for the other. 

I have the utmost respect for Real Madrid mixed in with a healthy bit of jealousy. Some of that jealousy is borne out of Madrid's success when it comes to excelling on the European stage. I personally would love it if Barca prioritized the Champions League over other competitions, the way a Real does. Just how well would Barca do in that scenario, I wonder. Would we see Barca on the verge of a third consecutive CL title too?

It's a cultural thing. Madrid puts great emphasis on the European Cup/Champions League (as it's an indelible part of their legacy, which I do respect). Barca, less so.

Look, it's no coincidence that Guardiola-led teams tend to do well in the domestic league, while not necessarily performing well in the Champions League. The reasons are detailed in the article above. The Champions League, by definition, crowns the Champions of Europe. I just think it's unfair to proclaim the Champions League winners Kings of Europe when they can't even perform consistently domestically. 

It's always a question of fairness with me. "Champions of Europe" when you can't even be Champions of Spain/England/Italy/France etc. to me just seems a trifle odd. 

The 1992, 2006, 2009, 2011, 2015 Barca teams that did win the European Cup/Champions League have all invariably been part of European Double/Treble winning teams. If we were to do a survey of the Greatest Club Seasons of All Time  (this would make a good topic), each and every one of these Barca teams MUST be in the conversation. Spain having the best/toughest league of them all.

A Chelsea winning the Champions League and FA Cup Double in 2012, or a Borussia Dortmund 1997 CL winner, while very noteworthy, would they be considered among the Greatest Club Seasons of All Time, objectively speaking? I'm not so sure. 
 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Paulo Dybala

[Samuel Eto'o]

 

[Samuel Eto'o]

Who's that next to Laudrup? The Original Dream Team. It would have been Cryuff's Birthday in 3 days, April 25th.  Architect of Modern Football.

 

[SirBalon]

21 minutes ago, Paulo Dybala said:

Who's that next to Laudrup? The Original Dream Team. It would have been Cryuff's Birthday in 3 days, April 25th.  Architect of Modern Football.

 

That's Richard Witschge who Cruyff famously said he'd be one of the footballing greats. Unfortunately Witschge choked at Barça (not the first to do so) and didn't live up to the expectations that were generally believed to happen universally at the time. The same thing occurred with another Dutch player in Affelay.

[Panna King]

30 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

That's Richard Witschge who Cruyff famously said he'd be one of the footballing greats. Unfortunately Witschge choked at Barça (not the first to do so) and didn't live up to the expectations that were generally believed to happen universally at the time. The same thing occurred with another Dutch player in Affelay.

Affelay was never that great in the first place, wasnt a star player for PSV.  Witschge also was vastly overated who people believed the hype because of Johan, his brother Rob was better so maybe he got the wrong one!

Edited April 22, 2018 by VanPaddy

[bozziovai]

@The Rebel CRS and @Paulo Dybala  ... it's nice that in our forums we have people like you who's open minded and not childish like some of the Real and Barca fans in the internet.       Your word SYMBIOTIC hits the nail on the head.    These two clubs need each other, needs to punch each other in the head in order for each to strive more every season.      

[SirBalon]

27 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

@The Rebel CRS and @Paulo Dybala  ... it's nice that in our forums we have people like you who's open minded and not childish like some of the Real and Barca fans in the internet.       Your word SYMBIOTIC hits the nail on the head.    These two clubs need each other, needs to punch each other in the head in order for each to strive more every season.      

Why not @SirBalon 

[Samuel Eto'o]

4 hours ago, Paulo Dybala said:

 

Hate to say it but Andre Gomes would 100% have played the safe pass here. 

If this generation of Barca wants to be Football Immortals once again, not just in trophies won, but also in the football played, we do need to get rid of driftwood/deadweight. Have to be SCIENTIFIC about it. No room for sentiment. 

Him leaving Barca would be for the best for everyone involved, most of all himself. Never did see him with Valencia, but I understand that he was a proper player then. He needs to go elsewhere to thrive. Not every player is designed to play for Barca, no matter how much time and effort they put in. Playing for Barca looks deceptively simple, when it's anything but. It was Cryuff himself who said that.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Paulo Dybala

[bozziovai]

8 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Why not @SirBalon 

oh sorry .......  it was just i was discussing with those two        i look up to you like what i posted in the other thread, as a teacher  

[SirBalon]

6 minutes ago, Paulo Dybala said:

Hate to say it but Andre Gomes would 100% have played the safe pass here. 

If this generation of Barca wants to be Football Immortals once again, not just in trophies won, but also in the football played, we do need to get rid of driftwood/deadweight. Have to be SCIENTIFIC about it. No room for sentiment. 

Him leaving Barca would be for the best for everyone involved, most of all himself. Never did see him with Valencia, but I understand that he was a proper player then. He needs to go elsewhere to thrive. Not every player is designed to play for Barca, no matter how much time and effort they put in. Playing for Barca looks deceptively simple, when it's anything but. It was Cryuff himself who said that.

Out of recent players Arda Turan has also found that out too. I so liked Arda and hoped he’d be a success because of his character which is brilliant. 

[Cicero]

He was a mercenary and deserved everything he got, which was nothing. 

What character are you on about? 

[Panna King]

5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

He was a mercenary and deserved everything he got, which was nothing. 

What character are you on about? 

Balon is not a great judge of players, he even labelled Bellerin as World class 

[SirBalon]

22 minutes ago, Cicero said:

He was a mercenary and deserved everything he got, which was nothing. 

What character are you on about? 

His crazy character on the pitch like when he threw a boot at the ref (luckily wasn’t spotted) and shaved his head after promising it to his colleagues. There are other anecdotes I’ve heard about him which I love too but nobody can deny he had the talent to be one of the best of his generation. 

[Carnivore Chris]

 

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

Mate, I’ve read up a lot on the ins and outs of Neymar at Barcelona. He was a problem child for them and child is the perfect description for him. The technical team were constantly having to look after him and control his training tantrums with the three main friends he had (post Alves) in Piqué (first and foremost), Messi and Suárez being there for him in every minute of a football weekday.

The situation revolving around Neymar and his entourage (his father being the main issue) was something that a football club shouldn’t have to deal with and to be honest, they were well rid of him. I wouldn’t have him at my club even if he was paying to be their which with him is far fetched. 

 

I don't personally believe Barcelona are better without him mate, it's just that Valverde has improved the team from last year. If he had Neymar then I'm not sure the Roma defeat would have happened and the team would have played better free-flowing football over the course of the season for me, due to playing a more fluid 4-3-3 formation.

 

With this said, Coutinho brings a lot(what was missing vs Roma) and this was on show last night. I also think people have been too quick to write off Dembele. He's only 20, so he can improve and it's not like he hasn't been showing a lot of improvements lately, as he's started to slowly rack up the assists and get his name on the scoresheet a few times. He could(and likely will) be a devastating player in the years to come as the talent and ability is clearly there. He seems more settled in general now as well. Messi, Suarez, Dembele and Coutinho are all compatible and will make the team exciting to watch next season with a few extra additions.

 

Don't forget, there will also be this man in the squad next season:-

 

 

Shit wrong video, this is it:-

 

 

Another important factor to mention is how Valverde had to deal with the unexpected loss of Neymar. He was likely planning a 4-3-3 at the start of the season and then ended up a more 4-4-2 due to pretty much being forced to with the options available to him. Not to mention Coutinho wasn't eligible for the Champions league and the injury of Dembele early on was a set-back, another thing that was unplanned.

There has also been an unbeaten run on the cards, giving extra to think about than usual. The team, nor Valverde would have wanted that to end even if they don't/didn't admit it. Next season, more rotations and rest before the Champions league, and big things are possible under Valverde, the football can also improve, as shown from last night. He just needs the depth and extra personnel.

Get rid of Andre Gomes and promote Carles Aleña, sell Digne and bring in a left-back(maybe Grimaldo?) who can actually fill in for Alba and do a job and bolster the squad depth a bit and there is no reason why this team can't succeed more.

Give more minutes to Denis, Paco and Yerry as they are capable of being solid squad players but need the minutes in order to be ready for the games when they are needed to step in, have full faith in Dembele, keep using Semedo and there is depth there already to build on.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by The Rebel CRS

[SirBalon]

50 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

 

 

I don't personally believe Barcelona are better without him mate, it's just that Valverde has improved the team from last year. If he had Neymar then I'm not sure the Roma defeat would have happened and the team would have played better free-flowing football over the course of the season for me, due to playing a more fluid 4-3-3 formation.

 

With this said, Coutinho brings a lot(what was missing vs Roma) and this was on show last night. I also think people have been too quick to write off Dembele. He's only 20, so he can improve and it's not like he hasn't been showing a lot of improvements lately, as he's started to slowly rack up the assists and get his name on the scoresheet a few times. He could(and likely will) be a devastating player in the years to come as the talent and ability is clearly there. He seems more settled in general now as well. Messi, Suarez, Dembele and Coutinho are all compatible and will make the team exciting to watch next season with a few extra additions.

 

Don't forget, there will also be this man in the squad next season:-

 

 

Shit wrong video, this is it:-

 

 

Another important factor to mention is how Valverde had to deal with the unexpected loss of Neymar. He was likely planning a 4-3-3 at the start of the season and then ended up a more 4-4-2 due to pretty much being forced to with the options available to him. Not to mention Coutinho wasn't eligible for the Champions league and the injury of Dembele early on was a set-back, another thing that was unplanned.

There has also been an unbeaten run on the cards, giving extra to think about than usual. The team, nor Valverde would have wanted that to end even if they don't/didn't admit it. Next season, more rotations and rest before the Champions league, and big things are possible under Valverde, the football can also improve, as shown from last night. He just needs the depth and extra personnel.

Get rid of Andre Gomes and promote Carles Aleña, sell Digne and bring in a left-back(maybe Grimaldo?) who can actually fill in for Alba and do a job and bolster the squad depth a bit and there is no reason why this team can't succeed more.

Give more minutes to Denis, Paco and Yerry as they are capable of being solid squad players but need the minutes in order to be ready for the games when they are needed to step in, have full faith in Dembele, keep using Semedo and there is depth there already to build on.

 

 

Mate, everything you're saying is that Barcelona were able to put out a more balanced formation that didn't leave them open to massive defensive issues.  Barcelona as a team are in a better position without Neymar than with him considering the other two that HAVE to play. Neymar is a great addition for a big side that doesn't have issues like those Barça found themselves in with massive names up front. Cruyff before passing away always maintained that he didn't think Neymar was good for Barcelona for two major reasons, one being his reputation and the second al those already in the team... His term was "demasiados gallos en el corral".

Many will read into this sour grapes and others simply that he's gone and you look into within. But the stats are there, stats that looked impossible before the season started.  What it is, is that Valverde didn't have a headache to put out a balanced side mate.

[Samuel Eto'o]

Luan was being considered for Barca too. Would have loved to get the both of them.

As the Coldplay song goes: "We live in a beautiful world." Thanks for the memories Don Andres Iniesta.

[Carnivore Chris]

12 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Mate, everything you're saying is that Barcelona were able to put out a more balanced formation that didn't leave them open to massive defensive issues.  Barcelona as a team are in a better position without Neymar than with him considering the other two that HAVE to play. Neymar is a great addition for a big side that doesn't have issues like those Barça found themselves in with massive names up front. Cruyff before passing away always maintained that he didn't think Neymar was good for Barcelona for two major reasons, one being his reputation and the second al those already in the team... His term was "demasiados gallos en el corral".

Many will read into this sour grapes and others simply that he's gone and you look into within. But the stats are there, stats that looked impossible before the season started.  What it is, is that Valverde didn't have a headache to put out a balanced side mate.

You could see against Roma that a player of his abilities is certainly lacking in the side and by playing such a formation in such a game, you may as well leave Messi and Suárez at home. Then again if Dembele had started and Countino was eligible then that is the problem solved there. All Barcelona needed was 1 goal but to do that you need to create something. 

Neymar isn't missed per say, but is when Dembele and Countino aren't available. I also think a player like Countino could well end up being a lot more valuable than Neymar was in the future as a man with his eye for a pass really has been missing. Not to mention he is much less problematic than Neymar. 

I do think Dembele has it all to be one of the world's best also. I've seen enough football in my time to know what natural talent is and he has a lot of it, mixed with pace, the ability to use both feet to the dame standard and an eye for a pass. The only concern is that he seems to be a bit shy and reserved so that is one thing which may need work. Then again which 20 year old wouldn't be nervous when going to Barcelona? Next season will be interesting in terms of him and hopefully he can really kick on. 

Keeping Umtiti and preventing another Neymar incident is also a Must. There is no way he can leave. 

On another note, Messi’s goal the other night meant he has equalled Telmo Zarra's record of most copa del rey finals scored in, which is 5. 

Surely he has made the most assists in copa finals as well? He must have 6/7 now, all of high quality too. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by The Rebel CRS

[SirBalon]

32 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

You could see against Roma that a player of his abilities is certainly lacking in the side and by playing such a formation in such a game, you may as well leave Messi and Suárez at home. Then again if Dembele had started and Countino was eligible then that is the problem solved there. All Barcelona needed was 1 goal but to do that you need to create something. 

Neymar isn't missed per say, but is when Dembele and Countino aren't available. I also think a player like Countino could well end up being a lot more valuable than Neymar was in the future as a man with his eye for a pass really has been missing. Not to mention he is much less problematic than Neymar. 

I do think Dembele has it all to be one of the world's best also. I've seen enough football in my time to know what natural talent is and he has a lot of it, mixed with pace, the ability to use both feet to the dame standard and an eye for a pass. The only concern is that he seems to be a bit shy and reserved so that is one thing which may need work. Then again which 20 year old wouldn't be nervous when going to Barcelona? Next season will be interesting in terms of him and hopefully he can really kick on. 

Keeping Umtiti and preventing another Neymar incident is also a Must. There is no way he can leave. 

On another note, Messi’s goal the other night meant he has equalled Telmo Zarra's record of most copa del rey finals scored in, which is 5. 

Surely he has made the most assists in copa finals as well? He must have 6/7 now, all of high quality too. 

First of all I want to reiterate that Roma played a mighty fine game in that second leg in the Stadio Olimpico, but Barça's main issue was attitude, something players hate being accused of but if we ever had a proof of this particular issue that gets thrown at teams from time to time, the capture of Iniesta spurring the players before coming out to play the second half will become infamous...  A man of Iniesta's experience knows these things and he obviously didn't like what he saw in that first half which at that moment was only at 1-0 with a lot for Roma to do.  Still, his words were that, more of that and Barça are going home in the tournament.

That more refined attacking options may have been beneficial, I won't deny that because you can never have enough magic up front.  But the players that took to the field for Barcelona on a 1-4 advantage should've had it easy that night by being intelligent, but not easy in terms of being permitted to be lethargic and arrogant.

Neymar has tremendous qualities but he also has many flaws.  His flaws for me outdo the beneficial attributes he offers and I don't like that type of player.  All that without going into the manner he departed from Barcelona which is a different debate that has already been exhausted here at TF365.

A team that plays in the manner Barcelona traditionally plays in is much more balanced by having that extra man in midfield, one wit the necessary talents to play in that midfield mind you, which isn't easy to find.  Hopefully Arthur is that man, he definitely looks to be.  Yes, it's a lot more spectacular to play a tremendous trio up front, we've been witness to that for four years at Barcelona, but hell, you're not going to tell me that the 4-3-3 formation didn't leave the team so open in midfield and subsequently in defence that many games before the front three managed to kill the game weren't games that also had you living on the edge with the amount of chances they let the opposition have.  Many games that ended in the correct side of the score where Barça were concerned could've gone the other way.  I personally feel more secure watching them like this to be honest.

[Guest]

Barcelona won the UEFA Youth League, 2 goals from Alejandro Marques. A Venezuelan.

Venezuela have such a bright future ahead, and what's scary for them is that it has a high potential to fail at least in qualifying. The next World Cup qualifiers will be the most contested ever.

Brazil being a shoe in

Argentina look a lot better than some gave us credit for. Lautaro Martinez, Lo Celso and Lanzini as the new shoe ins to the squad while Messi has another World Cup qualifying in him.

Peru and Paraguay in the middle of a process, that could well be completed come the next World Cup

Uruguay and Venezuela with both a great future ahead of them.

Colombia look set to stagnate

Chile have one more World Cup qualifying fight in them before their golden generation officially ends.

 

Ecuador and Bolivia to me are the only 2 who won't be in that fight. 8 teams. EIGHT! 

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Blue said:

Barcelona won the UEFA Youth League, 2 goals from Alejandro Marques. A Venezuelan.

Venezuela have such a bright future ahead, and what's scary for them is that it has a high potential to fail at least in qualifying. The next World Cup qualifiers will be the most contested ever.

Brazil being a shoe in

Argentina look a lot better than some gave us credit for. Lautaro Martinez, Lo Celso and Lanzini as the new shoe ins to the squad while Messi has another World Cup qualifying in him.

Peru and Paraguay in the middle of a process, that could well be completed come the next World Cup

Uruguay and Venezuela with both a great future ahead of them.

Colombia look set to stagnate

Chile have one more World Cup qualifying fight in them before their golden generation officially ends.

 

Ecuador and Bolivia to me are the only 2 who won't be in that fight. 8 teams. EIGHT! 

Thanks for adding one line on the fact Barça youth won their version of the Champions League and then the rest! 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Thanks for adding one line on the fact Barça youth won their version of the Champions League and then the rest! 

I had to segway it somewhere

[The Palace Fan]

Just seen the highlights and boy didn't Barca's youth team look convincing.

[SirBalon]

4 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

Just seen the highlights and boy didn't Barca's youth team look convincing.

Yeah, I've been saying for a while that there's some brilliant young players coming through and the generation after this one is even better.  Blue highlighted the Venezuelan kid Alejandro Marques who is very good indeed.