Everton Discussion

[Stan]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

Why would you say that? If your interpretation of this whole mess is that the Premier League are out to protect Everton then that's an interesting interpretation to say the least.

Not particularly, just wondered if they end up retreating because they realise they fucked up so to keep Everton in the league and shunt the likes of Luton out...

[RandoEFC+]

8 minutes ago, Stan said:

Not particularly, just wondered if they end up retreating because they realise they fucked up so to keep Everton in the league and shunt the likes of Luton out...

I think the main thing is that they've realised they can't give Everton a 10 point penalty for this when it's only 9 points for going into administration, and that if Everton had done the same thing in the EFL then it would have been a 6 point penalty. Or something to that effect, I haven't read the full document.

I don't think they have any qualms about sending us down. We should be 12th or 13th if we hadn't been docked points. Everton had already got out of the relegation zone before getting any points back and I think on the balance of probabilities that we'd likely have stayed up without getting any points back (provided there isn't another heavy slam from our second offence).

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Anyone else think they'll just mess around with the points so that Everton survive?

I think they’re just going to add on 4 points deducted for the second offense (even though it covers the same period as the first offense, so it’s really just a second punishment for the same offense) - so they end up back at their original 10 so they can pat themselves on the back for getting it right in their minds the first time.

But that’s because like @RandoEFC I have pretty much no faith in the league using their brains and them somehow thinking this makes them look good.

[OrangeKhrush]

for me it is either 10 points or 0 points,  this kangaroo court FA nonsense needs to stop. 

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

for me it is either 10 points or 0 points,  this kangaroo court FA nonsense needs to stop. 

That approach is just as made up as theirs though. Where does the 10 even come from in the first place? Plucked out of thin air.

[OrangeKhrush]

11 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

That approach is just as made up as theirs though. Where does the 10 even come from in the first place? Plucked out of thin air.

That's why I say either back convictions and give a penalty or you don't, by then reducing it to irrelevance it makes the process look like a giant Flim flam

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

That's why I say either back convictions and give a penalty or you don't, by then reducing it to irrelevance it makes the process look like a giant Flim flam

6 points isn't irrelevant though. It just so happens because of the way this season has gone that those four points back change the table quite dramatically in our favour. We're still 15th when we would have been 13th without any points penalties. If we were only good enough to get 34 points this season then 6 points would be deemed equally severe to 10 points because either would probably have got us relegated.

They have to draw the line somewhere. They've made their case for why there needs to be a points penalty because transfer bans and fines won't hack it, but 10 points was insane given that it's a heavier penalty than going insolvent. I'd rather it was less but 6 points seems like a reasonable middle ground and if we'd been docked 4-6 points in the first place, there would have been a very different reaction. The fans probably still protest and the club probably still appeals because you've got to try and get every inch that you can but I doubt it goes quite as far as Parliament and causes as much of a stink as 10 points did, and I don't think Everton would have had as much sympathy from the majority of the media if it had been 4-6 points to start with.

Everton were guilty. They admitted it and most of our fans accepted it too. The debate was always about mitigating factors and the proportionality of the penalty. 

[Dave]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-22/miami-based-777-gets-conditional-approval-of-everton-fc-deal

The Premier League trying to give the new regulator a hospital pass here.

[RandoEFC+]

Whatever happens with this, the Premier League have badly let us down here. This has taken 6 months ffs. Simultaneously coming after us for the way the club has been run, inflicting heavy handed points deductions that risk sending us to the Championship and potential financial oblivion, all the while leaving us in limbo on the change of ownership situation. 

If 777 are suitable owners, why has it taken 6 months for them to be approved, and if they're not suitable owners, why dick around over this for half a year? If they get turned down then that's months worth of time Moshiri could have been looking for a new buyer that could get the club back on a level footing and all the while, the financial situation has been getting worse and worse as 777 have been loaning us money which means yet more debt for any alternative new owner to take on.

Moshiri is a cancer on this club and the Premier League is not fit for purpose as an organisation on so many levels.

[Dave]

https://theesk.org/2024/03/24/the-reality-of-the-conditional-minded-to-approve-requirements/

It seems like the PL have said 777 have to fulfil certain criteria (which they also said 6 months ago) but have given a 1 month deadline to do it. That would cost a lot of money which 777 don’t have. They can’t convert the loan into equity as they can’t pay off the underlying loan they used to lend on to everton. There are also rules to limit the amount of debt an entity can use to buy a club to prevent another glazer situation. So this article essentially sees these are conditions it’s impossible for them to meet. 

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

https://theesk.org/2024/03/24/the-reality-of-the-conditional-minded-to-approve-requirements/

It seems like the PL have said 777 have to fulfil certain criteria (which they also said 6 months ago) but have given a 1 month deadline to do it. That would cost a lot of money which 777 don’t have. They can’t convert the loan into equity as they can’t pay off the underlying loan they used to lend on to everton. There are also rules to limit the amount of debt an entity can use to buy a club to prevent another glazer situation. So this article essentially sees these are conditions it’s impossible for them to meet. 

The esk knows his stuff but by all accounts he's close to either MSP or one of the other consortiums interested in swooping in at a lower price if 777 falls through, so I do take his commentary on the 777 takeover with a pinch of salt.

[RandoEFC+]

More good news as our accounts released tonight show an £89m loss. I don't know how that affects any further points penalties and frankly don't care. Fold this absolute circus right now and put us out of our misery.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

More good news as our accounts released tonight show an £89m loss. I don't know how that affects any further points penalties and frankly don't care. Fold this absolute circus right now and put us out of our misery.

Kieran Maguire noted a part of the accounts where the ability to 'trade is a concern'. 

£255m in total over 3 seasons. 

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

Kieran Maguire noted a part of the accounts where the ability to 'trade is a concern'. 

£255m in total over 3 seasons. 

I don't know what that means. I've had enough of spreadsheets now though to be honest. The owner has checked out. The current *interim* board were put in place in August as a stop-gap while the takeover was carried out. The Premier League are ensuring that they drag it out for a full season while the club flails without leadership and yet they won't be accountable, in fact they'll end up charging us yet afuckinggain when arguably the largest contributing factor to us being run badly at least over the last year is them keeping us waiting over the 777 situation.

Again, it's been 6 fucking months. If they haven't provided evidence to pass the fit and proper owners test then they clearly aren't fit and proper. How difficult is this? Nobody knows better than the Premier League how urgent a matter this is given that they're the ones who have seen fit to charge the club under its current ownership twice already this season. They're putting the final nails in our coffin and they'll come up smelling of daisies and just be allowed to carry on raking in billions while hundreds of thousands of Everton fans are left with a husk of a football club and potentially without a football club at all at this rate.

I don't know who to be most pissed off at to be honest out of Kenwright, Moshiri or the Premier League but I do know that football is supposed to be an enjoyable national pass-time and this shouldn't be allowed to happen to people's clubs.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

don't know who to be most pissed off at to be honest out of Kenwright, Moshiri or the Premier League but I do know that football is supposed to be an enjoyable national pass-time and this shouldn't be allowed to happen to people's clubs

I'm tired of football now these days. Not even because my own club is caught up in the mire and mud of it all. 

But too much of the game is dictated and spoken about off the field matters. Little matters about what talent or results happen on the pitch any more. 

[Dave]

 

 

[Whiskey]

I've decided not to renew my season ticket, 16yrs of going the game coming to and end in a month or two. The love of football and Everton has evaporated to the point where clinging onto it is only affecting my mental well-being in a negative way. I just don't have the heart anymore to still hold on.

I'll be putting my energy and new found spare time into my family. The Premier League, $ky, Moshiri, Kenwright and all the other absolute car crash bollocks has totally done me in, to the point where I'll be getting my football fix from my local Sunday League team (I have two clubs a 10 minute walk from me in the North West Counties League) and on the TV via FC Porto (the team of my wife's family).

So sad that looking around for forum, so many are in the same boat. Football has been killed for the "historic" fan. Totally dead.

Edited April 2 by Whiskey

[Dave]

1 hour ago, Whiskey said:

I've decided not to renew my season ticket, 16yrs of going the game coming to and end in a month or two. The love of football and Everton has evaporated to the point where clinging onto it is only affecting my mental well-being in a negative way. I just don't have the heart anymore to still hold on.

I'll be putting my energy and new found spare time into my family. The Premier League, $ky, Moshiri, Kenwright and all the other absolute car crash bollocks has totally done me in, to the point where I'll be getting my football fix from my local Sunday League team (I have two clubs a 10 minute walk from me in the North West Counties League) and on the TV via FC Porto (the team of my wife's family).

So sad that looking around for forum, so many are in the same boat. Football has been killed for the "historic" fan. Totally dead.

Yeah, I dont blame you. I've been listening to that Quickly Kevin podcast on 90s football over the last month and it's clear that these days the game has just gone. We talk more about VAR, shit refs, team cooking the books, Fifa corruption, stupid World Cup expansion plans, PL incompetence, club greed etc than we do about the players who play the game.

I'm embarrassed for clubs like ourselves, Wolves, Bournemouth who voted against the EFL clubs getting a small share of the TV revenue given that not long ago we were in really bad situations ourselves. Its not the club I invested so much of my teenage and early 20 years in to and its part of the reason I don't feel anything when we draw to teams like Luton and Forest.

[RandoEFC+]

I think I've said it before but the only thing that keeps me vaguely arsed about Everton not getting relegated is a misplaced sense of pride and knowing that it's unarguably the worst thing that has happened to the club in countless decades.

I can take us being average or shite year in, year out but there's just such a sense of injustice that two people can systematically ruin a football club supported by millions of people and there's nothing we can do about it except for kick off about it on the Internet and organise protests that get no traction because the media give such few fucks about any clubs that don't fit "the brand" that it gets nothing more than a cursory mention on TV or in the papers and therefore never amounts to any pressure on the people responsible.

[Dr. Gonzo]

27 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I think I've said it before but the only thing that keeps me vaguely arsed about Everton not getting relegated is a misplaced sense of pride and knowing that it's unarguably the worst thing that has happened to the club in countless decades.

Probably the worst thing that's happened to the club in it's history, no?

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Probably the worst thing that's happened to the club in it's history, no?

Well they've dropped before but not in modern history. The financial situation changes the potential for relegation from an embarrassment to an existential crisis as well sadly.

[RandoEFC+]

 

Maybe the "they're not corrupt, they're just incompetent" shouts will finally stop when City are able to pay a "luxury tax" to get away with their 115 charges after delaying and obfuscating while Everton and Forest faced actual punishment.

I'm not holding my breath though!

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 02/04/2024 at 11:09, RandoEFC said:

Well they've dropped before but not in modern history. The financial situation changes the potential for relegation from an embarrassment to an existential crisis as well sadly.

I thought Everton were one of the rare clubs that had never been out of the top flight, for some reason. A quick google search tells me you're right and I'm wrong, but I guess I'd just never known that.

 

3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

 

Maybe the "they're not corrupt, they're just incompetent" shouts will finally stop when City are able to pay a "luxury tax" to get away with their 115 charges after delaying and obfuscating while Everton and Forest faced actual punishment.

It's mental though, isn't it, how they don't seem to particularly give a shit about the optics of what appears to be pretty brazen corruption? Instead they'll just try to shame people for noticing, though, and insist it's an affront to the league that we suggest what looks like blatant corruption may in fact be blatant corruption.

[RandoEFC+]

Everton second charge drops tomorrow by the sounds of it.

I assume some people have inside knowledge as our relegation odds dropped from 7/1 to 5/1 in the last 24 hours despite Forest losing today. Points to a 1-2 point deduction to me. Hopefully nothing worse than that and hopefully we appeal.

[Whiskey]

Hope Richard Masters buys a shirt that doesn't fit him the horrible cunt.