Willian - Arsenal Complete Signing

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, shut up said:

what the fuck is AFCTV? 

Check it out on YouTube, it seems like the kind of bellendery you’d enjoy

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, shut up said:

so you've come into the thread to add fuck all to the convo then, just like most threads you enter.

Irony 

[Mpache]

I respect your opinion @shut up, but you are coming across as a bit of a troll here. Maybe tone it down and argue more reasonably. Just a friendly tip  

[Cicero]

30 minutes ago, shut up said:

Ziyech got 9 goals in 35 games in the mickey mouse dutch league last season and you're trying to talk about Willian's stats 

tinpot player, nowhere near Willian's level. 

So you're actually not trolling. Wow 

Honestly can't believe I've been pushed to post this but here's some perspective for you. 

 

Ziyech scored 38 goals in all competitions the past 3 seasons. 0 of which were penalties. Ziyech has assisted 63 goals the past 3 seasons. Averaging a goal contribution every 100 minutes the past 3 seasons. 

Willian scored 32 goals in all competitions the past 3 seasons. SIX of which were penalties. Willian has assisted 45 goals the past 3 seasons. Averaging a goal contribution every 129 minutes the past 3 seasons. If we were to remove the penalties, that would be an average goal contribution of every 140 minutes. 

And before you predictably go on about how tin pot the dutch league, let's compare their European contributions against top clubs the past several seasons. 

Ziyech (past 3 seasons) 

Chelsea - 1 goal + 3 Assists

Real Madrid - 2 goals 

Juventus - 1 assist 

Spurs - 1 goal + 1 assist. 

 

Willian (past 5 seasons)

Barcelona - 1 goal 

Porto - 1 goal

PSG - 1 assist 

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, shut up said:

i'm actually debating the topic of the thread - Willian. And I have been right and backed it up. noticed Cicero has gone quiet. 

Are you debating the topic? You’re basically just saying Willian’s better than Ziyech based on them having similar numbers although Ziyech is in a shit league tbh. But it’s also not really accounting for other things. How many of Ziyech’s goals were penalties? How many of Willians goals were penalties.

You’re just giving it large because you’ve signed a player, and that’s fine, but some of your arguments come across as massively bellendy and you should expect to get called out if you’re going to act like that

[Dr. Gonzo]

Yeah it’s not like @Cicero watches Chelsea pretty extensively or anything 

I think someone needs to live up to their username

[The Artful Dodger]

3 minutes ago, shut up said:

Yeah it's not like fans who get a player taken from them ever react negatively and try to downplay it. 

Stats speak for themselves I'm afraid. 

The exact reverse is also true, you're clearly  trying to make out of you got a good deal. I don't think you'd be sat here saying you'd rather have Willian if you were signing Havertz though. Maybe you're just happy at what you perceive to be an amazing signing, nothing wrong with that. It works for all sides on paper. We will see how it plays out.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Yes @Cicero is reknowed for preciously loving Willian. He was so thrilled when Chelsea turned down £50m to keep him.

Clearly this is just pure bitterness from the man and he’s not secretly laughing his head off at this whole thread 

[Dave]

It would be typical of Arsenal to sign attacking players on big wages with long contracts and not improve what has always been an abysmal defence.

[Spike]

 

 

5 hours ago, shut up said:

I have had a quick look and Willian got 9 premier league goals and 7 assists this season. that's the same as your starting number 9 Firmino . Coutinho has got 8 goals for Bayern and 5 assists, playing in the best side in the league. he also only got 5 La Liga goals the season before for Barca  

you're right, you're not worth talking to 

Willian takes penalties.

[Spike]

Christ almighty, Vertoghen!? What is Arsenal a retirement home for other London clubs?

[Cicero]

30 minutes ago, shut up said:

why on earth would you remove the penalties ffs, don't they count?

Because Willian takes them and Ziyech doesn't?   Even when I leave them in, Ziyech is far superior?

Ziyech -  100 minutes per goal or assist  

Willian - 129 minutes per goal or assist. 

 

But since the main criticism for Willian is his lack of end product from open play, it serves a well purpose on perspective.

Ziyech - 100 minutes per goal or assist. 

Willian - 149 minutes per goal or assist. 

 

30 minutes ago, shut up said:

Ziyech has been playing in one of the best Ajax team of the past 25 years and has similar stats to Willian doing in a much poorer league.  If Willian played the past 3 years in the dutch league do you really think he wouldn't score at least 6 more goals to match Ziyech?

I just showed you the stats aren't similar. What are you on about?  

Willian couldn't even match Ziyech's output even when Willian was playing in the bloody Ukrainian league ffs. Ziyech also did more in Europe the past 2 seasons than Willian did in his entire career. 

 

30 minutes ago, shut up said:

Willian was Chelsea's best player last season and is a key player for you. Simple as that.

He'd have to get behind Kovacic. And Mount. And Pulisic. And Giroud. But yeah, WIllian would've been our best player. Simple as that. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

It would be typical of Arsenal to sign attacking players on big wages with long contracts and not improve what has always been an abysmal defence.

Tbf to Willian, he is the sort of player to put a shift in and defend from the front. And imo having someone like that defend high up the pitch can be infectious for the rest of the squad and get them trying to do the same thing.

Athough Arsenal players not putting in the right amount of effort in matches is more a Emery-Arsenal issue than an Arteta-Arsenal issue.

Tbh I think Willian will be a good signing, provided he can still perform like he has in the next 3 years. But he’ll be 34 by the time this contract is up, and sometimes players fall off dramatically if they can’t keep up with the league in their old age.

But I don’t think Arsenal fans should expect this year’s level of goals from him, considering they’ve got a penalty taker already in the league and he’s one of the best at penalties.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, shut up said:

spurs offered him a new deal, just like Chelsea offered willian. not sure why you're making out both went with the blessing of both clubs 

being over 30 doesn't even matter that much anymore, this isn't the 90s. Player look after themselves & can play for longer.

That is true but stockpiling players that the club can never sell for a return is a bad plan. And believe me, mate, I'm so relieved that Wilian rejected Chelsea's deal. No room for a geriatric winner in this team moving forward.

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Because Willian takes them and Ziyech doesn't?   Even when I leave them in, Ziyech is far superior?

Ziyech -  100 minutes per goal or assist  

Willian - 129 minutes per goal or assist. 

 

But since the main criticism for Willian is his lack of end product from open play, it serves a well purpose on perspective.

Ziyech - 100 minutes per goal or assist. 

Willian - 149 minutes per goal or assist. 

 

I just showed you the stats aren't similar. What are you on about?  

Willian couldn't even match Ziyech's output even when Willian was playing in the bloody Ukrainian league ffs. Ziyech also did more in Europe the past 2 seasons than Willian did in his entire career. 

 

He'd have to get behind Kovacic. And Mount. And Pulisic. And Giroud. But yeah, WIllian would've been our best player. Simple as that. 

 

8 minutes ago, shut up said:

stats say otherwise.

So it's fine when you want to rely on stats but when other people do it it's not allowed  

Had a go at me for thinking I've not watched Arsenal but thinks he knows better than a Chelsea fan about Chelsea players. Got it!

I have no doubt that @shut up genuinely gets info from The Sun or shit rags like that. 

[Cicero]

Utterly amusing how he thinks Willian moving to the dutch league would fix his lack of IQ in the final third and his abysmal habit of striking the ball directly at the keeper, time and time again. Especially when his time in the Ukrainian league says otherwise.  

 

He's a good player 2/3 of the pitch, and then bang average in the final third. We are replacing him with a player who has been one of Europe's top chance creators in the third, behind Messi and KDB, and yet he is trying to justify they are getting the better end of the deal? 

 

[Cicero]

14 minutes ago, shut up said:

you're comparing stats from one of the poorest leagues in Europe vs arguably the toughest and even then they're not that different. There is only that one season where Ziyech was brilliant, other than that fairly poor considering it's the dutch league.

 

you've also got to look at the strikers Willian has had to work with past couple of years, Giroud and Morata? both poor. he'll be working with Aubameyang at Arsenal. 

I see you cropped out assists.  How convenient

I really don't understand your point. How would Willian do better with a striker who is just an out and out finisher compared to a striker who is brilliant at hold up play and gets others involved? You would think the latter would improve Willian's output but again this goes with my point that Willian is just bang average in the final third. 

What's funny is that it'll only get worse given Aubameyang takes the penalties 

 

[Spike]

What the fuck is an 'out and out striker'? Those words don't mean anything without context

[Cicero]

15 minutes ago, shut up said:

because he'll get more assists? Giroud scores like 1 in every 5 chances. Auba scores 1 in every 2. also, auba isn't just an out and out finishers ffs. this is what I mean by people reading the sun instead of watching us play. Auba's link up play is class. he hasn't played as an out and out finisher once since Arteta took over lol

Assists weren't listed on wiki btw, I didn't crop em out.

The issue isn't who is up top, its Willian's qualities as a player. Willian played with Diego Costa for 3 seasons and produced the same numbers we see now. Matter of fact, he was awful that first season he linked up with Costa so it isn't even a given he'll excel with Aubameyang. 

His decision making in the final third and inconsistency at net is what brings him down as a player. You'd know this if you'd watch him play consistently so it's a bit rich claiming we read the sun instead of watching Aubameyang play. 

[Cicero]

16 minutes ago, shut up said:

i've never said that he can't be inconsistent. you're making things up in your head. I said he's a key player for you and was your best player statistically last season if you add goals & assists. 

you're making out like he's some average chump.

Because in the final third,  he is. And I've showed you both quantitatively and qualitatively as to why he is. 

You claiming  Ziyech and Havertz are 'No where near Willian's level', has got to be among one of the most deluded comments I've ever read. 

[Mpache]

5 minutes ago, shut up said:

Ziyech certainly isn't.

Werner and Havertz look decent players in the Bundesliga tbf.

I've been harsh on the Bundesliga, and I stand by all my comments, but calling it a farmers league is just as bad as calling the Copa America a "cesspool of a competition".

Still one of the best leagues in the world.

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, shut up said:

Ziyech certainly isn't.

Werner and Havertz look decent players in the Bundesliga tbf.

Teso levels of delusion. 

[Mpache]

Just now, shut up said:

i've never called the Bundesliga a farmers league 

You did though. Saying "they look decent in the Bundesliga" in a negative sense is the same as calling it a farmers league. And despite how overrated I find it to be, it's still one of the best leagues in the world. That mentality bothers me.

[Mpache]

Just now, shut up said:

It wasn't a negative comment. They have looked very good in the Bundesliga...we won't know how good they are until they play in the UCL and Premier League consistently .

See that's an elitist mentality. Following a better league and ruling out everyone else's standards. 

Not trying to push your buttons but I just despise it when people who are better rule out everyone else. 

You can be world class in the Eredivisie and the Brazilian Serie A if you ask me. It's totally unfair to say you can't without playing in the PL.

[Chaaay AFC]

3 hours ago, Mpache said:

See that's an elitist mentality. Following a better league and ruling out everyone else's standards. 

Not trying to push your buttons but I just despise it when people who are better rule out everyone else. 

You can be world class in the Eredivisie and the Brazilian Serie A if you ask me. It's totally unfair to say you can't without playing in the PL.

Of course you can be world class in those leagues. It has no bearing on whether you'll be world class in another though. Some player don't transition well, so I don't see how saying they've looked good in the Bundesliga is in anyway offensive. You can't say definitively if they'll do well in the Prem until they play there.