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Rafael Benitez: Good or Bad?


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Rafael Benitez: Good or Bad?  

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  1. 1. Rafael Benitez: Good or Bad?



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World-class or overrated by the masses? 

rafa-benitez-real-madrid-rafael-benitez_

 

This discussion seems to be ruffling a few jimmies across the forum so it's time to end this once and for all. Is the fat Spanish waiter a world-class manager or is he no better than Alan Pardew? Vote now or forever hold your peace.

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Not world class but I do rate him very highly.

he's the one I wanted us to get if Shakespeare wasn't gonna be hired.

Got a fairly good track record at most clubs, even winning a trophy in his first season at Napoli :D 

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The fuck? Why is the choice between 'world class' and a mug like Pardew? I'd vote no for that question, he isn't world class anymore but he still amongst the elite managers of Europe. He is the bracket of fantastic managers like Pellegrini, Tuchel, Emery, Biesla, Sarri, Enrique, Mourinho, Klopp, etc.. He isn't the bracket of 'world class' like Guardiola, Ancelotti, Conte, Allegri, Simeone, Sampaoli, Pochettino, etc.. Also he is better than other great managers like Blanc, Deschamps, Mazarri, Wenger, Flores, 

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What defies a manager as world class? His accolades? Mourinho has possibly the best in that department, but his style and tactics are now dull and outdated. 

Guardiola implements a great philosophy, but he can't adapt to certain situations and has struggled being in a league where he now can't win every game 6-0. 

Rafa has shown to build good sides and get the best out of his players, but his time at big clubs where pressure was high, he's failed to replicate. (Inter and Real being the prime examples) 

Simeone is possibly the manager I rate the highest. followed by Conte, Guardiola, Pochettino, and Allegri.  I'd rate Rafa somewhere along the same lines as Emery and Sampaoli. 

 

Edited by Cicero
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On close observation I would say he is streets ahead of the average manager for in game management. You could argue he over analyses things and lacks tactical flexibility but no manager is perfect. 

I think the line Liverpool fans started "in Rafa we trust" describes what you have to be like when he is manager, you have to put your trust in him, unquestionably. He's got a set way of thinking and you've got to let him work towards building it. 

For example this season we didn't play 442. Even at home. Sometimes you're thinking come on ffs this is a shit league just go two up top and bulldozer these tossers, but he wouldn't even try it. You've got to just trust he knows what he is doing, he got us up and his approach has given us our equally best away season in our history. Now he's in the league that should better suit him so next season will be very interesting.

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40 minutes ago, Cicero said:

What defies a manager as world class? His accolades? Mourinho has possibly the best in that department, but his style and tactics are now dull and outdated. 

Guardiola implements a great philosophy, but he can't adapt to certain situations and has struggled being in a league where he now can't win every game 6-0. 

Rafa has shown to build good sides and get the best out of his players, but his time at big clubs where pressure was high, he's failed to replicate. (Inter and Real being the prime examples) 

Simeone is possibly the manager I rate the highest. followed by Conte, Guardiola, Pochettino, and Allegri.  I'd rate Rafa somewhere along the same lines as Emery and Sampaoli. 

 

This is a good post but Sampaoli at least now is miles ahead of Rafa. Same with Emery but the latter a bit behind in the bracket.

I don't want to make any predictions as I've been keeping up with him at Newcastle and hes had an issue similar to the one at Napoli and that's to keep a consistent home form. Seems to be caring enough for the club but again no predictions will be made. It will be interesting to see whether England is his comfort zone or if he's really as shit as I believe him to be. 

Him being a top manager is a myth though. I'm just not sure if he's still comfortable for the premier league or not.

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59 minutes ago, Spike said:

The fuck? Why is the choice between 'world class' and a mug like Pardew? I'd vote no for that question, he isn't world class anymore but he still amongst the elite managers of Europe. He is the bracket of fantastic managers like Pellegrini, Tuchel, Emery, Biesla, Sarri, Enrique, Mourinho, Klopp, etc.. He isn't the bracket of 'world class' like Ancelotti, Conte, Allegri, Simeone, Sampaoli, Pochettino, etc.. Also he is better than other great managers like Blanc, Deschamps, Mazarri, Wenger, Flores, 

I'm sorry I think you put Guardiola in the "world class" group, a simple mistake I fixed for you.

 

Other than that I think he's a more than decent manager but definitely not Ancelotti, Simeone level. there a number of managers like Mourinho, and Klopp I'd take before him in a heartbeat in your next bracket but I'd say he belongs there. But I think I like Rafa because he can be slotted into any club level and still be a success with them. I don't think he's done "bad" with any team so far. I also don't count his tenure at Real Madrid as a thing because he was really only hired temporarily there to be used as a scapegoat.

Edited by Dickie
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1 minute ago, Spike said:

One of those three doesn't belong...hhmmm. It's wasn't a very well rounded team, it was carried by a couple of players.

Who? All three were class under Rafa.

Mata had something like 20 goals and 30 assists that year, Torres also netted 20+ goals and Luiz was a rock. 

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Just now, Cicero said:

Who? All three were class under Rafa.

Mata had something like 20 goals and 30 assists that year, Torres also netted 20+ goals and Luiz was a rock. 

Torres was mediocre in the league and that is what I'm discussing. We are talking about the PL here mate.

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37 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

This is a good post but Sampaoli at least now is miles ahead of Rafa. Same with Emery but the latter a bit behind in the bracket.

I don't want to make any predictions as I've been keeping up with him at Newcastle and hes had an issue similar to the one at Napoli and that's to keep a consistent home form. Seems to be caring enough for the club but again no predictions will be made. It will be interesting to see whether England is his comfort zone or if he's really as shit as I believe him to be. 

Him being a top manager is a myth though. I'm just not sure if he's still comfortable for the premier league or not.

won the Champions League with Liverpool tbf. Can't be that shit. 

Hasn't he won the old UEFA Cup a couple of times as well?

In fact, he's won a trophy everywhere he's been if I'm not mistaken?

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Just now, Stan said:

won the Champions League with Liverpool tbf. Can't be that shit. 

Hasn't he won the old UEFA Cup a couple of times as well?

In fact, he's won a trophy everywhere he's been if I'm not mistaken?

And? Wenger won the league unbeaten with Arsenal and took them to the Champions League final. I don't see people praise him as a top manager anymore.

Maybe I'm being harsh with my terminology, but it doesn't help at how awful he was at Napoli which is a club I follow. Maybe he's not "shit" but he's not a top manager that everyone makes him out to be. He's definitely massively overrated by some and its shown by the fact that he's not won any major trophies since 2005.

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5 minutes ago, Stan said:

won the Champions League with Liverpool tbf. Can't be that shit. 

Hasn't he won the old UEFA Cup a couple of times as well?

In fact, he's won a trophy everywhere he's been if I'm not mistaken?

I think he means England domestically where he's been average. 

Had one chance to win it and thought he had the bollocks to take on Alex Ferguson until he put him in his place. 

Fast forward a few years later and he has a relegation to add to the bottom of his CV. 

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2 minutes ago, HK85 said:

I think he means England domestically where he's been average. 

Had one chance to win it and thought he had the bollocks to take on Alex Ferguson until he put him in his place. 

Fast forward a few years later and he has a relegation to add to the bottom of his CV. 

Yeah, that's what I meant. The only domestic league where he wasn't average in was in Spain, with Valencia where he won the title. He's always been more of a cup manager. Look at that most of the tournaments he's won, most are knockouts.

Couldn't even win the championship with the best team in the league. Not a pop at him there but its just further proof that isn't where he thrives in.

Edited by Guest
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5 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

And? Wenger won the league unbeaten with Arsenal and took them to the Champions League final. I don't see people praise him as a top manager anymore.

Maybe I'm being harsh with my terminology, but it doesn't help at how awful he was at Napoli which is a club I follow. Maybe he's not "shit" but he's not a top manager that everyone makes him out to be. He's definitely massively overrated by some and its shown by the fact that he's not won any major trophies since 2005.

FA Cup in 2006 & Italian Cup in 2013/14?

Europa Legue in 2013?

 

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Just now, Stan said:

FA Cup in 2006 & Italian Cup in 2013/14?

Europa Legue in 2013?

 

FA Cup was 11 years ago and the Italian cup isn't a major trophy. Europa league is debatable. I think its a good trophy to win but its not at the level of say a league win or the UCL. Ask Spurs

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4 minutes ago, HK85 said:

I think he means England domestically where he's been average. 

Had one chance to win it and thought he had the bollocks to take on Alex Ferguson until he put him in his place. 

Fast forward a few years later and he has a relegation to add to the bottom of his CV. 

He joined late on in the season xD. hardly all down to him that Newcastle went down. In most cases, damage has already been done and Benitez had a tough enough task anyway. 

 

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Just now, LaSambadeStGermain said:

FA Cup was 11 years ago and the Italian cup isn't a major trophy. Europa league is debatable. I think its a good trophy to win but its not at the level of say a league win or the UCL. Ask Spurs

I'd count a Europa League win as a major trophy xD.

That's like saying the World Cup is a major trophy but the European Championships are minor. 

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4 minutes ago, Stan said:

I'd count a Europa League win as a major trophy xD.

That's like saying the World Cup is a major trophy but the European Championships are minor. 

Not everyone does. I don't have an opinion personally, if its a major trophy in most people's eyes then fair enough, but there is an element of truth in that some teams even want to sack it off where as no one wants to sack off the Champions League (well most don't). I'll give you the benefit of doubt this time, but again him being a top manager is a huge myth. He was good enough in the day to manage any of the top 5 teams in most leagues, now he's good enough for Newcastle and that's why he's there. He's an OK manager but he's overrated for winning a tournament that even Di Matteo has won which was 12 years ago anyways. I want to see him do it again before saying he's a "top manager".

I would also say he's good enough for a club like Everton but I'm aware Toffees fans don't want him near the club. 

Edited by Guest
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4 minutes ago, Stan said:

He joined late on in the season xD. hardly all down to him that Newcastle went down. In most cases, damage has already been done and Benitez had a tough enough task anyway. 

 

He was their manager before they were relegated. Throw him in the same bag as Big Al. 

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11 minutes ago, Spike said:

Probably has the word 'Juve' before that.

Or Higuaín these days.

On the Benítez argument...  I''ve never made any secret about the fact I dislike him quite a bit.  His character stinks to be honest and he hasn't changed much over the years apart from mellowing out some of the radical statements he used to come out with back when he was coaching in Spain.  One thing he does seem to do though is offer himself 100% to whoever he's coaching and he won't have anyone disputing absolutely anything he thinks (thick skulled)...  That's where he's fallen out with directors at most of the clubs he's been at.  He makes a plan and where other coaches will then give some slack on interpretation, he won't!  If he was ever promised something or sounded like a promise from either the board or players, then it has to be maintained to the full and no improvisation is allowed.

Some of the quotes back in the day in Spain were great to like when he was at Valencia...

"I asked for a Porsche and they bought me a sofa"

xD

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4 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Or Higuaín these days.

On the Benítez argument...  I''ve never made any secret about the fact I dislike him quite a bit.  His character stinks to be honest and he hasn't changed much over the years apart from mellowing out some of the radical statements he used to come out with back when he was coaching in Spain.  One thing he does seem to do though is offer himself 100% to whoever he's coaching and he won't have anyone disputing absolutely anything he thinks (thick skulled)...  That's where he's fallen out with directors at most of the clubs he's been at.  He makes a plan and where other coaches will then give some slack on interpretation, he won't!  If he was ever promised something or sounded like a promise from either the board or players, then it has to be maintained to the full and no improvisation is allowed.

Some of the quotes back in the day in Spain were great to like when he was at Valencia...

"I asked for a Porsche and they bought me a sofa"

xD

I thought it was "I asked for a sofa to furnish the loungeroom and they bought me a lamp.'?

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