Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle - Saturday 14th September, 2019

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Once again, it’s not the equipment, it’s the referee using it. We’re going round in fucking circles here. It’s like saying a whistle doesn’t work. It does, it’s just that the ref doesn’t blow it......

Once again, VAR needs a referee to work. We are blaming it as a whole, not particularly the technology.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Rick said:

Yeah, my initial thoughts of "VAR will be good" are quickly evaporating. So many mistakes so far with it, and most of them have been absolutely clear fouls/ incidents. Ridiculous that the people in the box are that inept that they can't even make the most simple decisions. So yeah, I'm starting to lean towards a "fuck VAR off" mindset.

Remember when you said that I was turning every thread into VAR 

Oh the sweet irony.

[LFCMadLad]

24 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Remember when you said that I was turning every thread into VAR 

Oh the sweet irony.

To be fair hes given VAR a chance. He is allowed to change his opinion. 

[LFCMadLad]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

Once again, it’s not the equipment, it’s the referee using it. We’re going round in fucking circles here. It’s like saying a whistle doesn’t work. It does, it’s just that the ref doesn’t blow it......

It's the whole package. VAR as a whole simply isn't, and never was needed. The exact same mistakes are being made but now they are just highlighted more which is causing endless, boring debates. Not to mention the tedious, breaks in play that VAR causes.

Just needs fucking off all together so football can get back to how it was previously.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

To be fair hes given VAR a chance. He is allowed to change his opinion. 

What I'm telling him is to stop pinpointing the blame on me for turning every thread into this or that bla bla bla. 

 

[Rick]

54 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Remember when you said that I was turning every thread into VAR 

Oh the sweet irony.

We are quite literally discussing the VAR decision.

[Rick]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

Once again, it’s not the equipment, it’s the referee using it. We’re going round in fucking circles here. It’s like saying a whistle doesn’t work. It does, it’s just that the ref doesn’t blow it......

They come hand in hand. If it's inept idiots using the technology then the technology is a waste of time. 

[DeadLinesman]

3 hours ago, Rick said:

They come hand in hand. If it's inept idiots using the technology then the technology is a waste of time. 

So in that case, whistles are a waste of time. Referees have a whistle to blow for fouls and stop play. They also have linesman meant to spot infringements and offsides. If a foul is committed and the referee doesn’t blow, or it’s offside and the linesman doesn’t flag, it’s hardly the whistles fault or the fault of the flag. It’s literally how people are blaming VAR technology. So are we getting rid of whistles and linesmen? 

I get the fact that the time it’s taking is annoying and I genuinely believe this will quicken over time. People just need to get over it. 

[Rick]

12 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

So in that case, whistles are a waste of time. Referees have a whistle to blow for fouls and stop play. They also have linesman meant to spot infringements and offsides. If a foul is committed and the referee doesn’t blow, or it’s offside and the linesman doesn’t flag, it’s hardly the whistles fault or the fault of the flag. It’s literally how people are blaming VAR technology. So are we getting rid of whistles and linesmen? 

I get the fact that the time it’s taking is annoying and I genuinely believe this will quicken over time. People just need to get over it. 

VAR cannot work without human involvement. Already, we have seen numerous wrong decisions made even with VAR in place. I'm not arsed about the time so much, if it was making sure the correct decisions are made. But it isn't, so unless we have people ready to override the ref and make the correct calls then the system is a complete waste of time. You've got stone wall pens being ignored for Christ sake, it's ridiculous.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

I get the fact that the time it’s taking is annoying and I genuinely believe this will quicken over time. People just need to get over it. 

Hasn't quickened at all in the 3 years its been around.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

It’s literally how people are blaming VAR technology. So are we getting rid of whistles and linesmen? 

But we're not, or at least not directly anyways. We're blaming the system as a whole.

[Stan]

2 hours ago, Grizzly21 said:

Hasn't quickened at all in the 3 years its been around.

It has though. 

Perhaps not in South America which I guess is where the majority of football you watch is. 

[The Artful Dodger]

You can't create a perfect game, just like you can't create a perfect society. Var is useful but there will still be errors. People just can't seem to accept that errors will always occur, and get worryingly hysterical about referees. Can't we just live with the fact sometimes things go wrong? To err is human. 

[LFCMadLad]

1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said:

You can't create a perfect game, just like you can't create a perfect society. Var is useful but there will still be errors. People just can't seem to accept that errors will always occur, and get worryingly hysterical about referees. Can't we just live with the fact sometimes things go wrong? To err is human. 

Bang on, they should just bin VAR and live with human error as it used to be. The very small percentage of improvement of decisions isn't worth all this bollocks VAR brings.

[DeadLinesman]

If it improves the percentage of correct decisions, then it’s worth it.

[Harry]

20 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

Give over. That's as clear a penalty as you will ever see. If a referee on the pitch, along with one behind the cameras, cant come to the right decision then I cant fathom one bit why VAR is being employed? 

Load of shite and it's being proven time and time again, in almost every match. 

It would have been overturned only if it was a clear and obvious error. 

I can see why they didn't feel that one was absolutely indisputably clear cut. I'm sure it was a penalty to ask Liverpool fans and maybe most neutrals as well but it wasn't a grievous error not to give a penalty for that so it wasn't overturned.

I don't want to go to a system like the world cup that was so sensitive as to whether a jersey was held or a ball touched a hand that the number of penalties skyrocketed and became the dominant form of goalscoring in the tournament.

16 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Once again, it’s not the equipment, it’s the referee using it. We’re going round in fucking circles here. It’s like saying a whistle doesn’t work. It does, it’s just that the ref doesn’t blow it......

This is where I'm trying to take the conversation. What would improve this?

For me it needs clearer definition of what is the burden of certainty to overturn a decision. It also needs some transparency such as letting the viewers hear an audio of the video ref to hear and understand their thought process... The whole thing is still way too opaque compared to cricket

[Harry]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

If it improves the percentage of correct decisions, then it’s worth it.

Correct. It also makes it harder for referees to make incorrect decisions, which is good particularly in countries with a lower quality of referee

[LFCMike]

If that penalty incident isn't an error then I don't know what is. He literally has him around the neck and drags him to the floor

[DeadLinesman]

29 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

If that penalty incident isn't an error then I don't know what is. He literally has him around the neck and drags him to the floor

Exactly. And that’s not VAR’s fault, but ridiculously inept officiating. I’ve long advocated referees having a debrief where they have to explain their decisions to the media.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Exactly. And that’s not VAR’s fault, but ridiculously inept officiating. I’ve long advocated referees having a debrief where they have to explain their decisions to the media.

OK, let's let VAR work on its own then. Let's not have any humans intervene. Let's see how it does.

[DeadLinesman]

27 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

OK, let's let VAR work on its own then. Let's not have any humans intervene. Let's see how it does.

Whilst we’re at it, let’s place a whistle in the center circle and see if it blows itself. We can continue this debate forever. Some people are for it, others against. Rinse and repeat.

[Guest]

Just now, DeadLinesman said:

Whilst we’re at it, let’s place a whistle in the center circle and see if it blows itself. We can continue this debate forever. Some people are for it, others against. Rinse and repeat.

I know what you mean Phil, but ultimately it's a pointless argument because you need a referee for VAR to function, in the same way you need a human for a whistle to work. Blaming the technology, or defending it, is pointless! Ultimately a human is needed and people blame the system as a whole, not VAR for being VAR.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Grizzly21 said:

I know what you mean Phil, but ultimately it's a pointless argument because you need a referee for VAR to function, in the same way you need a human for a whistle to work. Blaming the technology, or defending it, is pointless! Ultimately a human is needed and people blame the system as a whole, not VAR for being VAR.

How is defending it pointless?

If you have a competent official, it's not pointless, is it?

Again, you continue to go on like VAR has never made a correct call. Obviously that's not true.

Blaming the technology is pointless because it can be a good function to have in a game if it can help make correct decisions and there's competent officials controlling it.

You defend the whistle because it can work when there's a human to go with it to use it. You don't blame the whistle for not working if there's no-one to use it properly, do you?

 

[Stan]

I actually came in to this topic just now to say how farcical it was for the Matip penalty shout not to be given as well . Got side-tracked!

It's a clear penalty for me. Regardless of VAR! Officials should be spotting that on the pitch. If not the referee, then the assistant linesman too. There's no-one blocking his view at all. It's a clear pull.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

How is defending it pointless?

If you have a competent official, it's not pointless, is it?

Again, you continue to go on like VAR has never made a correct call. Obviously that's not true.

Blaming the technology is pointless because it can be a good function to have in a game if it can help make correct decisions and there's competent officials controlling it.

You defend the whistle because it can work when there's a human to go with it to use it. You don't blame the whistle for not working if there's no-one to use it properly, do you?

 

But having a whistle without a human is pointless. It's the same concept with VAR. It needs a human to work. At least with the current technology available.

Again, nobody is pinpointing blame to specifically the technology, but more the system. What good does saying "it's not the technologies fault" do when you consider you need a human to make it work?