Hertha Berlin - Title Competitors in the Next Few Years?

[Michael]

Could we see the transformation of Hertha Berlin into one of the best clubs in Germany in the next few years? With the appointment of Klinsmann as manager and the presence of investor Lars Windhorst, who has said that he is willing to invest 200 million Euros in the club, things are looking good.

Hertha have already been strongly linked to players like Granit Xhaka, Julian Draxler, Mario Gotze, Santiago Ascacibar, Lucas Tousart, Julian Weigl and Victor Wanyama.

All the major leagues in the countries around Europe have a title chasing capital club, will Germany finally have a capital club that will be just as competitive in the title races?

[DNA]

That would be great to see from a neutral perspective, on the non-football side.. their badge must be the most unimaginative I've ever seen  

[Smiley Culture]

It would be pretty significant in German Football history to see an Eastern side emerge as a side in contention for honours and playing regular European Football, though I think we’ll see RB Leipzig do that before we do Hertha. 

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, Smiley Culture said:

It would be pretty significant in German Football history to see an Eastern side emerge as a side in contention for honours and playing regular European Football, though I think we’ll see RB Leipzig do that before we do Hertha. 

Hertha BSC aren't an Eastern side as such, since they're from West Berlin and an former West German club.

[Relling]

For now, I think their Focus should be to stay in the division. 

[nudge+]

How long will Windhorst play along and invest his money if results don't come fast and his investment doesn't pay off? 

[DNA]

20 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

It would be pretty significant in German Football history to see an Eastern side emerge as a side in contention for honours and playing regular European Football, though I think we’ll see RB Leipzig do that before we do Hertha. 

If they can re-invest their money well, once half of Europe have disassembled their squad in January. 

[Michael]

On 28/12/2019 at 12:28, Smiley Culture said:

It would be pretty significant in German Football history to see an Eastern side emerge as a side in contention for honours and playing regular European Football, though I think we’ll see RB Leipzig do that before we do Hertha. 

RB Leipzig have been playing regular European football for a while now. They reached the quarter finals of the 2017/18 Europa League. They have been spending decent money on the best young prospects from around the world fora while now. So it's not fair to compare them with Hertha Berlin who have only just recently been taken over by a rich invester willing to spend a lot of money. 

Obviously it's more likely that RB Leipzig will find success before Hertha Berlin. Heck Leipzig already have a very good side, who on their day can beat most teams. With Hertha Berlin, it will probably take a couple of years at least to reach Leipzig's level. But with the right investment, the future could be very rosy for the Berliners.

[Michael]

12 hours ago, nudge said:

How long will Windhorst play along and invest his money if results don't come fast and his investment doesn't pay off? 

Who knows, but I think Klinsmann is a wise manager and I am already impressed with the type of players he is looking to sign. I don't think Windhorst will expect immediate success, even if they do spend big this January. I am sure he will give it 2 or 3 years before he expects significant things from Hertha.

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, Michael said:

Who knows, but I think Klinsmann is a wise manager and I am already impressed with the type of players he is looking to sign. I don't think Windhorst will expect immediate success, even if they do spend big this January. I am sure he will give it 2 or 3 years before he expects significant things from Hertha.

Realistic expectations didn't prevent Kühne or Kind from sinking enormous sums with HSV and Hannover 96 respectively. Let's not pretend investors had anything but a massive history of lacking success in Germany's football. Ismaik at 1860 München is another example, arguably non of the clubs I mentioned were worse off, without their investors backing them. Brought up these examples as an evidence that there's no such automatism as investors causing middle-term success.

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Realistic expectations didn't prevent Kühne or Kind from sinking enormous sums with HSV and Hannover 96 respectively. Let's not pretend investors had anything but a massive history of lacking success in Germany's football. Ismaik at 1860 München is another example, arguably non of the clubs I mentioned were worse off, without their investors backing them. Brought up these examples as an evidence that there's no such automatism as investors causing middle-term success.

With respect, I think that the calibre of players that Klinsmann and Hertha will be able to entice, are going to be much better than 1860 Munich or Hannover ever had. Klinsmann has a large transfer budget at his disposal and the type of players he is after are generally high level performers. I don't think that 1860 Munich, Hannover or even Hamburg bought players as high profile as the players Hertha Berlin are after. If enough quality players are brought in and they are managed well, then the law of averages suggests that Hertha should do well in my opinion.

[Rucksackfranzose]

12 minutes ago, Michael said:

With respect, I think that the calibre of players that Klinsmann and Hertha will be able to entice, are going to be much better than 1860 Munich or Hannover ever had. Klinsmann has a large transfer budget at his disposal and the type of players he is after are generally high level performers. I don't think that 1860 Munich, Hannover or even Hamburg bought players as high profile as the players Hertha Berlin are after. If enough quality players are brought in and they are managed well, then the law of averages suggests that Hertha should do well in my opinion.

To be after a player is one thing, being able to sign him a completely other one. Manchester United were after Haaland, didn't sign him, though. Being ambitious isn't the same as having attraction to players, especially if you don't compete in the Champions League.

And with all respect, if the players Hertha BSC will sign are any better than 1860 München's squad from season 1999/2000, when they finished fourth and took part in the CL qualification is doubtful.

[Michael]

12 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

To be after a player is one thing, being able to sign him a completely other one. Manchester United were after Haaland, didn't sign him, though. Being ambitious isn't the same as having attraction to players, especially if you don't compete in the Champions League.

And with all respect, if the players Hertha BSC will sign are any better than 1860 München's squad from season 1999/2000, when they finished fourth and took part in the CL qualification is doubtful.

Yes, that's true, but with the example you gave there were clear reasons as to why Haaland decided not to join Man United. Hertha are after some very good players, maybe not elite players, but nevertheless, what I would call high level players. Xhaka has said he wants to join them,he may have had a mixed time at an erratic Arsenal team, but he is still a very seasoned midfielder who has 82 caps for Switzerland and who has played at 2 World Cups and a European Championship.

Santiago Ascacibar is another player very close to joining and he is a highly rated young Argentine prospect. If the money is right, I see no reason why some of their other targets such as Draxler, Gotze or Tousart wouldn't join.

1860's 1999/2000 squad had some very good players but overall was nothing special. Sure they had a few excellent players like Hassler(who was 33 that season), Max and maybe Winkler, but some of the other players were nothing to go crazy about. Harald Cerny was decent and Stephan Passlack was a reliable player. But there were several average players in that side as well. 

[Tommy]

Well. 

 

[nudge+]

Ahahahahaha. Please be true... 

[SchalkeUK]

Those who sit behind a desk and have difficulty in recognising a football from a rugby ball need to pull their heads in sometimes.  So what if the difference between a coach and a manager and a director is a piece of paper - usually out-of-date which will never, ever diminish the contribution men like JK have made to the sport.  If they concentrated a little on the back-room corruption and the terrace racism which exists they would be doing a greater service to the game rather than trying to disrespect former great and respected players as they try to pass on their knowledge and experience to the kids.  By all means run regular checks on those tasked with looking after the kids, but come on! - JK?

There are many senior players I would love to see stay in the game in key roles - Philip Lahm as such an example, but silly stuff like this will only lose them and diminish their influence which would be almost criminal.  When JK is questioned and young guys like Tedesco are let loose without any consideration of their ability to hold such positions then something is very wrong!  The English FA can be a real mess at times - let's hope the BL does not follow that route!

[Rucksackfranzose]

20 minutes ago, SchalkeUK said:

Those who sit behind a desk and have difficulty in recognising a football from a rugby ball need to pull their heads in sometimes.  So what if the difference between a coach and a manager and a director is a piece of paper - usually out-of-date which will never, ever diminish the contribution men like JK have made to the sport.  If they concentrated a little on the back-room corruption and the terrace racism which exists they would be doing a greater service to the game rather than trying to disrespect former great and respected players as they try to pass on their knowledge and experience to the kids.  By all means run regular checks on those tasked with looking after the kids, but come on! - JK?

There are many senior players I would love to see stay in the game in key roles - Philip Lahm as such an example, but silly stuff like this will only lose them and diminish their influence which would be almost criminal.  When JK is questioned and young guys like Tedesco are let loose without any consideration of their ability to hold such positions then something is very wrong!  The English FA can be a real mess at times - let's hope the BL does not follow that route!

So you mean Jürgen Klinsmann should be spared of the procedures all managers have to undergo like extending their licenses and continuing education courses, because he was a successful football player? What's next, someone not responsible for their illegal deeds because they did something we enjoyed before? Our constitution or basic law, to be more precise, states that all people are equal before the law, and the football laws state that a valid license is required to be head coach of a football club. Why should a former international player be exempt from these requirements? By the way Dominico Tedesco, whom you deny the ability to coach fully fulfills these requirements, so he deserves to be called a head coach, if Jürgen Klinsmann doesn't he isn't one. plain as simple.

[SchalkeUK]

Valid comment and good points - however, the problem which seems to be with us at the moment should not be a topic for discussion because someone 'leaked' the situation before it could be solved.  If you apply for a job which requires you to undergo some formalities or further training, it is not posted in the local press unless someone has an axe to grind or wants to make a few Euros on the side. People like JK and Tedesco deserve the respect they don't always get until they fail miserably and then they would expect some comments, but a piece of paper which needs to be completed is not a reason for disrespecting anyone unless there are deeper reasons for its omission.  Our scum press in the UK is very good at that and I would hope that some of the German guys can rise above this sort of nonsense.  This is not the first time such a situation has arisen and, if memory serves me correctly, a period of time (quietly behind the scenes) was given to a well-known coach/manager to get it sorted. As for illegal deeds - they would have been blasted all over the papers if they existed without any checks needing to be made!

[Rucksackfranzose]

To be fair, the case you mentioned caused a lot of controversial discussions in Germany at that time too, if we're both are talking about Beckenbauer as national head coach, that is.

[SchalkeUK]

Franz and Alec - amongst others!  My young friend 'smudge' Smith - ex Leeds/Manchester/England - had a problem with class and concentration and took ages to get any qualifications and packed in his time at Loughborough due to that - and as yet has not really used them - for some it works, for others it causes more than a little headache!