Canadian Premier League Gets Green Light

[Honey Honey]

 

 

[Cure]

2 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

 

 

Would this mean a switch for Montréal Impact, the Vancouver Whitecaps and Toronto from the MLS?

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Cannabis said:

More than likely it will be similar to the Welsh Premier League in the sense that Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham all compete in English leagues. It'd be nice for the three mentioned to make the move to their own roots but I'm guessing it would crush them financially.

Nah, it wouldn't be nice. Canada has teams in the NBA, MLS, and NHL. It isn't a new thing for American+Canadian sports leagues. It's entirely a 'European' concept that one country = one league.

[Cure]

1 minute ago, Cannabis said:

More than likely it will be similar to the Welsh Premier League in the sense that Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham all compete in English leagues. It'd be nice for the three mentioned to make the move to their own roots but I'm guessing it would crush them financially.

Would depend almost entirely on whether or not the Canadians can hit the ground running with this chance. The prominence of hockey there makes me think it could struggle at first but all the best to them. Despite the hype for the MLS I don't see it as too big a deal. I think the Canadians would be more modest and less excessive than the Americans but see them putting up one hell of a fight to make it work. You never know.

[Spike]

7 minutes ago, Cure said:

Would depend almost entirely on whether or not the Canadians can hit the ground running with this chance. The prominence of hockey there makes me think it could struggle at first but all the best to them. Despite the hype for the MLS I don't see it as too big a deal. I think the Canadians would be more modest and less excessive than the Americans but see them putting up one hell of a fight to make it work. You never know.

Canada doesn't have the population size to support a major league with twenty teams for a niche sport. The major cities are Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. Beneath that you have Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg which are all frozen hell-holes. Other cites are Ottawa (can't even sell out it's NHL team) and Quebec City (lost it's NHL team). There is pretty much no-where else.  Some of their hockey teams barely float.

[Spike]

And Canadians are just frozen Americans 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

Canada doesn't have the population size to support a major league with twenty teams for a niche sport. The major cities are Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. Beneath that you have Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg which are all frozen hell-holes. Other cites are Ottawa (can't even sell out it's NHL team) and Quebec City (lost it's NHL team). There is pretty much no-where else.  Some of their hockey teams barely float.

Cure is completely spot on mate. If Canada wants to grow in football, they'll have to create a domestic league. When I was there, I never once met a fan of the NT. The reason is because football is literally only existent there because of the multiculturism in the country. Football isn't part of Canadian culture. Not only that but there are decent academies in Canada where most players get their chance by moving to Toronto FC, Montreal Impact or Vancouver Whitecaps. There is no professional league for them in the country to get a chance, so there is a very low chance that a top footballer will come from the country.

Marketing wise, I can't see this being a success. At least not early on anyways. However if they want to improve the quality of footballers in Canada, this is the way to go around things. The sport isn't even endorsed. Why do they even bother if they don't show the NT games on TV? They could have 12 teams and that would be good enough. 

Population isn't relevant for a nations success. The percentage of interest in the sport is. Look at Uruguay, imagine if Uruguay had the population of Argentina or hell, even Brazil? they are hypothetical situations that are ultimately irrelevant. You also have to look at the cultures of the nation.

[Spike]

Just now, LaSambadeStGermain said:

Cure is completely spot on mate. If Canada wants to grow in football, they'll have to create a domestic league. When I was there, I never once met a fan of the NT. The reason is because football is literally only existent there because of the multiculturism in the country. Football isn't part of Canadian culture. Not only that but there are decent academies in Canada where most players get their chance by moving to Toronto FC, Montreal Impact or Vancouver Whitecaps. There is no professional league for them in the country to get a chance, so there is a very low chance that a top footballer will come from the country.

Marketing wise, I can't see this being a success. At least not early on anyways. However if they want to improve the quality of footballers in Canada, this is the way to go around things. The sport isn't even endorsed. Why do they even bother if they don't show the NT games on TV? They could have 12 teams and that would be good enough. 

Population isn't relevant for a nations success. The percentage of interest in the sport is. Look at Uruguay, imagine if Uruguay had the population of Argentina or hell, even Brazil? they are hypothetical situations that are ultimately irrelavent. You also have to look at the cultures of the nation.

You miss my point. Talented players can emerge from a small nation but the league will struggle without the ticket support from fans. It all starts from the economy. The clubs need to be sustainable before you get grand ideas of instilling a footballing culture in Canada. Tell me why a kid in Quebec City would bother with football if his father, grandfather, idols, brothers, best friends, and culture is absolutely obsessed with hockey? And then on top of that for more than half of the year, it's not suitable whether for football but perfect for hockey. It's literally a part of the national and cultural identity, it's like starting a rugby team in Brazil, it's a niche market. The MLS teams are in a different league altogether, the already have support, and they are in large metropolitan cities, they should stay in the MLS. 

The difference between Uruguay and Canada is that Uruguay isn't fighting skiing, hockey, curling, baseball, bobsleigh, bandy, skeleton, lacrosse, and other ice-sports for popularity. In fact you support my argument, Uruguay is talented at football because it's No.1, Canada is the best at hockey because it's No.1. Just like Australia, football fights, ruby league, Australian rules, rugby union, tennis, swimming, and cricket for dominance. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Spike said:

You miss my point. Talented players can emerge from a small nation but the league will struggle without the ticket support from fans. It all starts from the economy. The clubs need to be sustainable before you get grand ideas of instilling a footballing culture in Canada. Tell me why a kid in Quebec City would bother with football if his father, grandfather, idols, brothers, best friends, and culture is absolutely obsessed with hockey? And then on top of that for more than half of the year, it's not suitable whether for football but perfect for hockey. It's literally a part of the national and cultural identity, it's like starting a rugby team in Brazil, it's a niche market. The MLS teams are in a different league altogether, the already have support, and they are in large metropolitan cities, they should stay in the MLS. 

The difference between Uruguay and Canada is that Uruguay isn't fighting skiing, hockey, curling, baseball, bobsleigh, bandy, skeleton, lacrosse, and other ice-sports for popularity. In fact you support my argument, Uruguay is talented at football because it's No.1, Canada is the best at hockey because it's No.1. Just like Australia, football fights, ruby league, Australian rules, rugby union, tennis, swimming, and cricket for dominance. 

You have a very good point and I'll admit I'm no expert on football finances, but its not all a loss. Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal will probably struggle given they have MLS teams. If you put a team in Regina, Saskatoon and Edmonton for example, I can guarantee people will go because as you said, they are frozen hell holes with few sports teams. In some certain areas you really only have to worry about Hockey, CFL and Lacrosse. Also, the multiculturism exists throughout the whole country, not just Ontario. So that could be the target market. I will assume that this league will have good money like the MLS and the A-League, so buying players from certain areas can encourage people to go see them live. That's why you don't see many South Americans in the A-League because the community of SA's there isn't huge. Canada doesn't have the culture of the sport, but they have enough ways to help market it.

I maintain that if Canadian football wants to grow, this needs to happen. 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

You have a very good point and I'll admit I'm no expert on football finances, but its not all a loss. Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal will probably struggle given they have MLS teams. If you put a team in Regina, Saskatoon and Edmonton for example, I can guarantee people will go because as you said, they are frozen hell holes with few sports teams. In some certain areas you really only have to worry about Hockey, CFL and Lacrosse. Also, the multiculturism exists throughout the whole country, not just Ontario. So that could be the target market. I will assume that this league with have good money like the MLS and the A-League, so buying players from certain areas can encourage people to go see them live. That's why you don't see many South Americans in the A-League because the community of SA's there isn't huge. Canada doesn't have the culture of the sport, but they have enough ways to help market it.

I maintain that if Canadian football wants to grow, this needs to happen. 

Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal don't need to worry about the economics per se as they have MLS funding at their disposal. MLS is a big business now and can support itself due to Latin influence and a 'counter-culture' against traditional American sports in cities like Seattle and Portland. Multiculturalism is focused mainly in Ontario, Montreal, and Vancouver, from what I've known and experience the rest are ahem, Canadian rednecks. You'll only find self-destructive Indians and oil workers in Winnipeg, sadly. Edmonton breathes Oilers, the live hockey, but I imagine it could have interest in the off season of NHL.

I do agree it needs to exist but I believe it should be like the NSL in America. A sort of 'second tier' with the aim to make it to the big leagues (MLS).

Actually there are a lot of Latinos in Australia these days. I knew several Peruvians, Brazilians, and Mexicans. It's definitely a growing community.

[Guest]

Yeah, I almost said that in my second reply to you. It needs something like the NSL, it's what helped football grow in the USA and Australia before developing into a bigger league. Develop the culture first before going into something huge and the way to do that is to have some sort of national league exist and unfortunately that Canadian Cup that only exists for the NACL isn't the solution.

Canada hosting a few games of the World Cup will help that matter although that's still in 9 years.

[Guest]

Its coming together it seems, and all of the sudden I actually care about Canadian soccer. I see more seriousness in turning it to a respectable sport over there.

Hamilton and Winnipeg are getting teams. Surrey is next.

[Smiley Culture]

If the Canadians aren't buying into the three MLS teams they have, I can't see them buying into their own professional league. 

 

[Honey Honey]

They bought TFF though 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

If the Canadians aren't buying into the three MLS teams they have, I can't see them buying into their own professional league. 

 

What complete misinformed and utter nonsense.

[Smiley Culture]

24 minutes ago, Blue said:

What complete misinformed and utter nonsense.

It's a tinpot league of six-to-eight sides, it's not as if the Premier League is moving in, it's a minor league which will change little in Canada. 

If three sides in one of the most emerging competitions on the planet isn't enough to develop the game there, a shite league won't change anything either. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

It's a tinpot league of six-to-eight sides, it's not as if the Premier League is moving in, it's a minor league which will change little in Canada. 

If three sides in one of the most emerging competitions on the planet isn't enough to develop the game there, a shite league won't change anything either. 

Well that's where you're wrong. I've been to games in Canada. The fans are mental there, it feels like you are in the Bundesliga.

You're not 100% wrong by the way, in some areas where it is less multicultural like Calgary, Winnipeg, Quebec City, it won't work a great deal. Where you're wrong is that the MLS Canadian teams don't generate interest. They do completely.

Right now there are 2 teams. Hamilton and Winnipeg. The former will work as its based around Toronto in the most populated area and province in the country. The latter is a gamble.

[Stan]

14 minutes ago, Blue said:

Well that's where you're wrong. I've been to games in Canada. The fans are mental there, it feels like you are in the Bundesliga.

You're not 100% wrong by the way, in some areas where it is less multicultural like Calgary, Winnipeg, Quebec City, it won't work a great deal. Where you're wrong is that the MLS Canadian teams don't generate interest. They do completely.

Right now there are 2 teams. Hamilton and Winnipeg. The former will work as its based around Toronto in the most populated area and province in the country. The latter is a gamble.

that's not what SC was saying though? 

if Hamilton is based around Toronto, why will they go to watch this instead of Toronto in the MLS?

[Guest]

Just now, Stan said:

that's not what SC was saying though? 

if Hamilton is based around Toronto, why will they go to watch this instead of Toronto in the MLS?

The way its worded, it sounded like he was saying that Canadians don't buy into their own MLS teams when they completely do.

I didn't even think about that though. Hamilton isn't THAT close to Toronto though say. Its a suburb. I believe its around 30-40 minutes away and sometimes even an hour due to traffic. Its kind of like the discussion I had with Danny the other day. Why would people give up support just for a new local side? If that's the case you have a point.

However, my debate with Spike I had earlier in this thread months ago, I stand by most of it. This league needs to exist or else Canadian football won't even improved or be endorsed. They don't even show the CanMNT games on TV!

[RandoEFC+]

To be fair if Toronto and Montreal are playing half of their games in random US cities it might be hard to get momentum behind the Canadian football teams.

That said I'm pretty clueless as to how things are going with those clubs and whether they're picking up a following in Canada.

[Danny]

On 16/10/2017 at 9:54 AM, RandoEFC said:

To be fair if Toronto and Montreal are playing half of their games in random US cities it might be hard to get momentum behind the Canadian football teams.

That said I'm pretty clueless as to how things are going with those clubs and whether they're picking up a following in Canada.

Americans and Americas hat are used to having their teams travel large distances though 

[TrstnFCB]

On 10/15/2017 at 3:35 PM, Stan said:

that's not what SC was saying though? 

if Hamilton is based around Toronto, why will they go to watch this instead of Toronto in the MLS?

The same reason why people follow the Ticats and not the Argos perhaps? Hamilton is only slightly smaller than Ottawa and by far the 3rd largest city in Ontario. Traditionally Toronto is pretty much the only urban area in Ontario that consistently has its own sports teams other than Ottawa (NHL and CFL) and Hamilton (CFL), but its not entirely unheard of for a city the size of Hamilton to have its own professional sports team.

That said, Toronto is pretty much the most culturally/ethnically diverse city in North America so the success of TFC in building a strong fan base here owes quite a lot to that. Even when you look at TFC ultras they borrow a lot from the Premier League and Bundesliga. That's also the primary reason why I don't think a Canadian league would work. The sport is particularly popular among immigrants/children of immigrants whether from Europe, Latin America or Africa. Toronto is home to such immigrants/children of immigrants in abundance, and cities like Montréal and Vancouver as well, with cities like Calgary and Edmonton to a lesser degree. When you consider that as popular as hockey is here, smaller cities like Québec and Winnipeg (even Ottawa decades ago) struggled to keep their NHL teams afloat financially in the past, I don't think there's a chance at all for a professional soccer league to develop in Canada. Or at least under a professional franchise system. The interest isn't there beyond maybe 3 or 4 urban areas. Even with hockey, while people do certainly follow the team of the closest urban area, there's a lot to be said of supporting local minor league teams.

On 10/15/2017 at 3:40 PM, Blue said:

The way its worded, it sounded like he was saying that Canadians don't buy into their own MLS teams when they completely do.

I didn't even think about that though. Hamilton isn't THAT close to Toronto though say. Its a suburb. I believe its around 30-40 minutes away and sometimes even an hour due to traffic. Its kind of like the discussion I had with Danny the other day. Why would people give up support just for a new local side? If that's the case you have a point.

However, my debate with Spike I had earlier in this thread months ago, I stand by most of it. This league needs to exist or else Canadian football won't even improved or be endorsed. They don't even show the CanMNT games on TV!

Hamilton is pretty close to Toronto by most standards, but definitely not a suburb. It's its own city and the third largest in the province. Again looking at the CFL you can certainly see that people would indeed support a local team. The MLS is still pretty young and Hamilton's own demographic is still pretty young. People are moving there in droves these days because housing tends to be much cheaper, and a lot of them are younger people and young families. Those are the types of people that seem more likely to me to support a fledgling local team.

That said, I think with TFC's recent successes in the league you can certainly see that Canadian soccer (to distinguish from the CFL) can indeed improve and excel despite not having its own league. What's needed is a focus on developing Canadian players, which TFC is helping along with the way its academy has been growing. That said, outside of bigger urban areas I can't see the sport ever becoming popular in the country. As mentioned above, its biggest potential lies in immigrants and children of immigrants. There aren't enough areas with that demographic to ever make the sport particularly popular here nation wide. Not to mention that in general we don't have the population to finance professional sports teams beyond a handful of major urban areas.

[Spike]

It will forever be a the 'other sport' with most kids lining up to play hockey with their friends, as well as the other American sports. It'll be popular with certain age groups but will fall out of fashion when kids focus more on hockey.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Spike said:

It will forever be a the 'other sport' with most kids lining up to play hockey with their friends, as well as the other American sports. It'll be popular with certain age groups but will fall out of fashion when kids focus more on hockey.

This. I think Canadian soccer will improve. However, I was literally thinking the other day that the multicultural tradition in Canada is the only reason it is even somewhat popular. I have never met a pure Canadian who liked the sport. Its always hockey and always will be due to pride. The popularity won't change too much.

[Guest]

Its official, the CPL is a go for 2019.

I can imagine it will be at the same time as the Swedish season, or the MLS.