Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 2, 2020 Subscriber Posted July 2, 2020 Seems like this might become big enough to warrant its own thread. For all I've learned about politics in the last few years, I'm still pretty ignorant on foreign affairs like this. It strikes me that the general idea behind China's new security law relating to Hong Kong amounts to them throwing their weight around and trying to exercise greater control over the population there against their will. It seems to me that the UK government is totally right to offer the citizens of Hong Kong a route to potential citizenship over here in response to this, but China are now publicly signalling opposition to this plan. Something pretty nasty seems to be brewing here with the Huawei story and Covid-19 virus originating in China acting as a pretty volatile backdrop. Is anyone a bit more of an expert on this than I am that can offer a bit more in-depth information?
Administrator Stan Posted July 2, 2020 Administrator Posted July 2, 2020 Not an expert by any means but I read up on a bit earlier in that China are in breach of a 50-year agreement signed in the 1990s which protected Hong Kong citizens once it was handed back to China. China are now saying that if Hong Kong are given citizenship in UK, then UK are violating their own agreement signed with China in the 1980s. I agree that UK government are right to offer citizenship for troubled HK citizens. Part of it begs the question why they'll allow citizenship for these suppressed people but not willingly do so for those in other troubled countries. But perhaps that's a different question and story for another day. Would also like to know more about this but China does come out of this looking terribly bad on top of the other issues you mention.
Michael Posted July 2, 2020 Posted July 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Stan said: Not an expert by any means but I read up on a bit earlier in that China are in breach of a 50-year agreement signed in the 1990s which protected Hong Kong citizens once it was handed back to China. China are now saying that if Hong Kong are given citizenship in UK, then UK are violating their own agreement signed with China in the 1980s. I agree that UK government are right to offer citizenship for troubled HK citizens. Part of it begs the question why they'll allow citizenship for these suppressed people but not willingly do so for those in other troubled countries. But perhaps that's a different question and story for another day. Would also like to know more about this but China does come out of this looking terribly bad on top of the other issues you mention. Well part of the reason is quite obvious to me. Hong Kongers are one of the richest people in the world. In fact, on average, the people of Hong Kong are the 4th richest in the world and the richest in Asia. It's no secret that the government wants everyone spending right now, to kick start the economy from the downturn COVID-19 has caused. What better way to help do that, than to invite loads of wealthy people into the country. Other suppressed people from poor third world countries, don't have much to offer the UK by way of financial incentives. So there is less motivation to help them out, in the way that our government is helping the Hong Kongers out. It's part of the sad reality of British politics I am afraid.
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted July 2, 2020 Subscriber Posted July 2, 2020 The new National Security Law imposed by China extends the reach of Chinese authority laws into quote "serious" and "complex" matter thereby invalidating any HK presiding authority power. That's a bit disgusting imo but its expected from China and how they've gone about exercising control in the region. Its a way for China to slowly assimilate HK into their stronghold and the big issue with it all is that it was announced and the HK govt. was given no time to digest the matter. Then enter the fact that they no longer want the UK involved in the matter because that would mean HK citizens with financial clout in the country can now move to the UK thereby moving their assets with them. The best joke of it all was how Zhang claimed it was gift to HK and that it would bear fruit in time. I don't expect this to go down well and with the escalating issues in the country which have been going on for a while, this is China's way of trying to stamp their authority and put an end to the way they have been opposed for a while now.
Guest Posted July 3, 2020 Posted July 3, 2020 I can remember the day when Hong Kong went back to Chinese rule.
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted July 4, 2020 Subscriber Posted July 4, 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/03/hong-kong-journalists-and-lawyers-scramble-to-adapt-to-security-law Nice short read on whats going on there.
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 On 02/07/2020 at 15:10, Michael said: Well part of the reason is quite obvious to me. Hong Kongers are one of the richest people in the world. In fact, on average, the people of Hong Kong are the 4th richest in the world and the richest in Asia. It's no secret that the government wants everyone spending right now, to kick start the economy from the downturn COVID-19 has caused. What better way to help do that, than to invite loads of wealthy people into the country. Other suppressed people from poor third world countries, don't have much to offer the UK by way of financial incentives. So there is less motivation to help them out, in the way that our government is helping the Hong Kongers out. It's part of the sad reality of British politics I am afraid. It’s also why China is pissed off at the UK for offering them a pathway in. That’s a lot of highly educated and wealthy people that China wants to be able to control and that the UK would like to have as part of its economy in a post-Brexit world. It’s a big financial hub, but if the people that make it a financial hub all leave Hong Kong... it sort of makes China’s expansion and control of Hong Kong moot. I fully support this decision from the UK government though. It’s the right thing to do.
Honey Honey Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 It's a trap. You get 5 year visa then if you stay 1 more year you get citizenship. How do you stay 1 more year? You'd have to meet certain financial requirements or job offers as people do now for a visa. This means they've already priced in that poor Hong Kongers might come and how to get rid of them. Maybe not quite the good will gesture some are painting this as. Let's hope the people coming fully understand that otherwise we've got our next Windrush scandal. Also a wealth and brain drain on Hong Kong would surely only help Chairman Mao? Guessing here.
Administrator Stan Posted July 4, 2020 Administrator Posted July 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Harvsky said: Let's hope the people coming fully understand that otherwise we've got our next Windrush scandal. This crossed my mind too.
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 12 hours ago, Harvsky said: Also a wealth and brain drain on Hong Kong would surely only help Chairman Mao? Guessing here. What’s the reasoning behind that? Because I don’t think a brain drain from Hong Kong is what China wants at all and why they’re so pissed off we’re offering a pathway for Hong Kongers to get out as China exerts control. Losing that highly skilled group of people that makes the city so valuable sort of defeats the purpose of gaining full control of Hong Kong. Because if Hong Kong is run by Beijing, there’s no reason to expect the rest of the world to continue to treat Hong Kong as autonomous. Without Hong Kong’s special status for trade and without the workforce that makes them the financial hub of Asia... it’s just another Chinese city, but probably with less skilled labour than every other big Chinese city.
Honey Honey Posted July 4, 2020 Posted July 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: What’s the reasoning behind that? Because I don’t think a brain drain from Hong Kong is what China wants at all and why they’re so pissed off we’re offering a pathway for Hong Kongers to get out as China exerts control. Losing that highly skilled group of people that makes the city so valuable sort of defeats the purpose of gaining full control of Hong Kong. Because if Hong Kong is run by Beijing, there’s no reason to expect the rest of the world to continue to treat Hong Kong as autonomous. Without Hong Kong’s special status for trade and without the workforce that makes them the financial hub of Asia... it’s just another Chinese city, but probably with less skilled labour than every other big Chinese city. Thought it might be easier to control Hong Kong if activists in high places leave and take their billions in savings with them.
IgnisExcubitor Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 On 05/07/2020 at 02:11, Dr. Gonzo said: What’s the reasoning behind that? Their current behaviour is crazy to put it mildly. China is currently in border disputes with India, Burma and Nepal. They have received warnings from Philippines, Vietnam and Japan over their aggressive behaviour where they have breached their sea borders. They were blamed (not officially) by Aussies for the hacking attack. All this during a pandemic which originated from them, and in which their behaviour was questionable. At a time when their name globally is hugely tarnished, their behaviour is mad. Xi is deliberately trying to instigate troubles with everyone around him.
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 6, 2020 Posted July 6, 2020 2 hours ago, IgnisExcubitor said: Their current behaviour is crazy to put it mildly. China is currently in border disputes with India, Burma and Nepal. They have received warnings from Philippines, Vietnam and Japan over their aggressive behaviour where they have breached their sea borders. They were blamed (not officially) by Aussies for the hacking attack. All this during a pandemic which originated from them, and in which their behaviour was questionable. At a time when their name globally is hugely tarnished, their behaviour is mad. Xi is deliberately trying to instigate troubles with everyone around him. Their current behavior reflects a super power that doesn’t have to give a fuck anymore because the only other super power isn’t going to stand up against them. They are telling the world “we are China, we do what we want.” And at this point in time, there’s really nobody that can actually stop them from acting with unrepentant belligerence. China’s becoming more authoritarian at home too, going back to the 90s and before. They just don’t give a fuck how we view them now because we won’t do anything about it. The world SHOULD absolutely do something about it though. Western companies moving out manufacturing from China would be a huge positive step.
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted July 8, 2020 Subscriber Posted July 8, 2020 On 05/07/2020 at 02:17, Harvsky said: Thought it might be easier to control Hong Kong if activists in high places leave and take their billions in savings with them. Think they want both. Hong Kong being special in the way it operates is very important to China but without the actual financial backers there it would be hard to retain all the banks that want to operate out of there as they'd also want to move out . Granted its a lengthy procedure but with the new laws most companies/banks wouldn't want to operate in a place where they dont see the financial viability long-term and have to answer to a government that doesnt even operate in the area that they are working out of.
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