Andrew Tate

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Jordan Peterson, for all the dumb things he is, is still a qualified psychologist, and capable of intelligent thought. I used to enjoy watching some of his lectures on the allegory nature of Disney films, back before watching anything associated with him became embarrassing. 
JP took a collection of baseline self-help points, and then framed them in a 'it's boys must become men, and it's men VS women' perspective. Cheat code, to finally aim self help at those who want it most by pandering to their world view. He's doubled and tripled down on that perspective since maps of meaning and 12 rules for life, and has become a joke to anyone who is normal (or normalish even).

If Petersen is the dad to a disenfranchised generation, Tate is the cool older brother. A misogynist, a sex trafficker, a man who places material wealth over everything. He wants men to work hard... but clowns on them for having a normal job? His Bugatti was rented too which is hilarious to me. 

As far as 'he says good or correct things sometimes', just remember Hitler loved dogs and hated cigarettes and smoking.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I think the biggest strength he has in getting people's attention is the extent to which he's been branded public enemy number 1 by much of the left, and is almost too controversial to be included in mainstream media discourse. This leads certain types of people to seek him out. With the alt right now they are so geared towards contrarianism you can pretty much control them by reverse psychology. 

Who, Tate? I'm not aware of him being branded public enemy #1 tbh. He's less high profile than Jordan Peterson, who's got a similar schtick imo. It's people who've found there's a group of people with a whole lot of the same sort of discontent and dissatisfaction in their lives... so they've marketed themselves as gurus to try to sell their bullshit to them.

I don't think these types of people are anything new. If anything, I think mainstream media's treated them more like gurus and less like the bullshit merchants that they are.

1 minute ago, Spike said:

In fact Tate's 'the Matrix' ramblings is just an idiot's version of 'Manufacturing Consent' by Noam Chomsky.

It's literally the same thing, but dumbed down and designed to sell his Hustler's University pyramid scheme.

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

There is plenty of nuance in mainstream discourse. Just read Chomsky or someone.

Tbh, I agree with @Harry that mainstream discourse lacks nuance. Most people aren't going to read Chomsky tbh, even if they've got an interest in things like "Manufacturing Consent" - and most big media outlets aren't going to want to talk to someone like Chomsky about his ideas because... he's inclined to challenge the narratives they present. Mainstream media doesn't really like being challenged. They try to present things as good v evil, which removes a lot of nuance from the discussion.

The people who've turned politics of several nations into a spectator sport have gone out of their way to take nuance out of the equation as much as they can. There's very little mainstream discourse that dives into the grey areas of lots of different issues - but plenty that want to frame issues as black v. white. It's made pretty clear by spending just a bit of time on social media.

Using US politics as an example - the death of nuance in public discoruse is why people online think I like Trump because I criticise things Biden has done, even though I hate Trump. Or why people who like Trump think I must love Biden because I hate Trump (this has happened to me online and real life).

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

His Bugatti was rented too which is hilarious to me. 

What colour is your rented Bugatti?

[Spike]

11 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Jordan Peterson, for all the dumb things he is, is still a qualified psychologist, and capable of intelligent thought. I used to enjoy watching some of his lectures on the allegory nature of Disney films, back before watching anything associated with him became embarrassing. 
JP took a collection of baseline self-help points, and then framed them in a 'it's boys must become men, and it's men VS women' perspective. Cheat code, to finally aim self help at those who want it most by pandering to their world view. He's doubled and tripled down on that perspective since maps of meaning and 12 rules for life, and has become a joke to anyone who is normal (or normalish even).

If Petersen is the dad to a disenfranchised generation, Tate is the cool older brother. A misogynist, a sex trafficker, a man who places material wealth over everything. He wants men to work hard... but clowns on them for having a normal job? His Bugatti was rented too which is hilarious to me. 

As far as 'he says good or correct things sometimes', just remember Hitler loved dogs and hated cigarettes and smoking.

He has a bloody PhD in psychology! The guy was seemingly reasonable at first, he’d croak out thoughts like ‘clean your room’, ‘watch less porn’, ‘take control of the little things in life’ but somewhere along the way he smoked a crack pipe with Ben Shapiro and now destroys libtards with facts and logic on the Daily Stormer.

Even saying shit like ‘they have some good points’ legitimises their bullshit because ‘their good points’ are never elaborated on, and is easily misconstrued with whatever hate filled rhetoric they spew on a daily basis.  Fuck these guys, they are vultures pecking at the corpses of the maladjusted.

[Danny]

Derren Brown (the fucking mind magician) uses a method where he’ll try and say something extremely generic and far too generalised, but then at the same time try and specify it to make you think he knows what youre thinking or whats in your past, or your future. Psychics do it a lot too.

Tate and co do the same thing, you could very well argue that we are living in a form of the matrix, I mean theres a reason why the matrix was written in the first place. But then they take that generalisation and specify it to something ridiculous like you need to essentially own women or derive some level of false manhood from them. So people go “he makes some good points” because of the matrix bullshit. And then slowly people listen more and take more in, because he mixes very generalised views on individuality in a globalised world with dogshit ideology.

He is a critical theorist for people that can’t think critically, overwise theyd see through him.

[Spike]

7 minutes ago, Danny said:

Derren Brown (the fucking mind magician) uses a method where he’ll try and say something extremely generic and far too generalised, but then at the same time try and specify it to make you think he knows what youre thinking or whats in your past, or your future. Psychics do it a lot too.

Tate and co do the same thing, you could very well argue that we are living in a form of the matrix, I mean theres a reason why the matrix was written in the first place. But then they take that generalisation and specify it to something ridiculous like you need to essentially own women or derive some level of false manhood from them. So people go “he makes some good points” because of the matrix bullshit. And then slowly people listen more and take more in, because he mixes very generalised views on individuality in a globalised world with dogshit ideology.

He is a critical theorist for people that can’t think critically, overwise theyd see through him.

You mean cold reading like that South Park episode?

[Danny]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

You mean cold reading like that South Park episode?

I haven’t seen the episode unfortunately 

[Stan]

8 hours ago, Danny said:

Derren Brown (the fucking mind magician) uses a method where he’ll try and say something extremely generic and far too generalised, but then at the same time try and specify it to make you think he knows what youre thinking or whats in your past, or your future. Psychics do it a lot too.

 

As I read this I immediately thought horoscopes

Agree with those mentioning 'he does/says good things' as if it redeems his alternative misogynistic thinking. 

It's like when an old lady says 'oh he was such a nice lad, he helped me with my shopping and helped me cross the road once'. But then it turns out he's a massive nonce or a serial killer and has hidden 5 bodies in his back yard. Just because he/she did a nice thing or has 1 positive quality, doesn't make them a good person or negate all the other terrible things they stand for. 

[Harry]

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Who, Tate? I'm not aware of him being branded public enemy #1 tbh. He's less high profile than Jordan Peterson, who's got a similar schtick imo. It's people who've found there's a group of people with a whole lot of the same sort of discontent and dissatisfaction in their lives... so they've marketed themselves as gurus to try to sell their bullshit to them.

I don't think these types of people are anything new. If anything, I think mainstream media's treated them more like gurus and less like the bullshit merchants that they are.

It's literally the same thing, but dumbed down and designed to sell his Hustler's University pyramid scheme.

Tbh, I agree with @Harry that mainstream discourse lacks nuance. Most people aren't going to read Chomsky tbh, even if they've got an interest in things like "Manufacturing Consent" - and most big media outlets aren't going to want to talk to someone like Chomsky about his ideas because... he's inclined to challenge the narratives they present. Mainstream media doesn't really like being challenged. They try to present things as good v evil, which removes a lot of nuance from the discussion.

The people who've turned politics of several nations into a spectator sport have gone out of their way to take nuance out of the equation as much as they can. There's very little mainstream discourse that dives into the grey areas of lots of different issues - but plenty that want to frame issues as black v. white. It's made pretty clear by spending just a bit of time on social media.

Using US politics as an example - the death of nuance in public discoruse is why people online think I like Trump because I criticise things Biden has done, even though I hate Trump. Or why people who like Trump think I must love Biden because I hate Trump (this has happened to me online and real life).

My original post was talking about Peterson not Tate. First time I've really felt caught out was during covid where I had to pick a team. Antivaxxers or ardent lockdown supporters who would blindly support any and all lockdown measures without evidence including keeping (my young) children home from school for close to a year. No ability to say "maybe the risk reduction benefit vs cost to the under 12 age group might justify keeping them in school or at least partially in school through some of this?"

The discourse was staggeringly reductive and it was impossible to question any aspect of The Science™. I've then come to realise just how often that same side of the political aisle's most ardent, online supporters resort to labelling to avoid engaging on substance.

[Panflute]

Before he became big I heard him on a podcast and I was like 'who the fuck is this idiot'. I was hoping that it was a comedian doing a bit because surely no one would be that stupid as to admit to being a human trafficker and a psychopath on a public platform, right?

Looking at some of the insane posts he's written about his dad neglecting him while playing chess against himself (lmao), I figure this guy never experienced a true emotional bond in his life and everything he says/does is just to cope with how sad and empty his existence is. Sad that he appears to have clout, as adopting that way of thinking can actually destroy your own life.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Panflute

[Panflute]

Also, on the topic of Jordan Peterson, there is a very weird link between him and Tate, as the latter dated or was in some way associated with Peterson's daughter. I forgot if he was also involved in that very weird part of Peterson's life where he got fucked up on benzos, was transported to Russia by his daughter and put on a keto diet or some shit. It's just such a cringe part of public discourse.

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Panflute said:

Also, on the topic of Jordan Peterson, there is a very weird link between him and Tate, as the latter dated or was in some way associated with Peterson's daughter. I forgot if he was also involved in that very weird part of Peterson's life where he got fucked up on benzos, was transported to Russia by his daughter and put on a keto diet or some shit. It's just such a cringe part of public discourse.

Didn't he get put into a coma in Russia? I think it was related to the diet or the benzo addiction.

Probably not the best person to take health advice from. Or any advice really 

[Panflute]

17 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Didn't he get put into a coma in Russia? I think it was related to the diet or the benzo addiction.

Probably not the best person to take health advice from. Or any advice really 

Yeah at one point it looked very bad.

Honestly looking at some of Jordan Peterson's psychology lectures before he became political was quite interesting. He had some wacky takes but at least some food for thought. Since he turned into a self-help guru it was game over.

[Spike]

9 hours ago, Panflute said:

Yeah at one point it looked very bad.

Honestly looking at some of Jordan Peterson's psychology lectures before he became political was quite interesting. He had some wacky takes but at least some food for thought. Since he turned into a self-help guru it was game over.

What were his wacky ideas before he went wacky himself?