Westworld

[RandoEFC+]

 

 

[Tommy]

Just watching Episode 2, and before I finish, I just got to say that Ramin Djawadi is such a treasure. The soundtrack is phenomenal again, and especially when they play bits of the old familiar Westworld tunes, I get such a fuzzy warm feeling inside. Astounding. 

[Tommy]

Finished Episode 2. 

 

This episode felt way more classic Westworld than the first one. I know we have to eventually "move on" from the Westworld park, but it felt good to be back somehow. Also that Hemsworth brother (Stubbs?) teaming up with Bernard kinda feels cool. They'll make a great team.

Didn't really expect Stubbs to be a host after all, but of course he is. 

And the dragon and medieval-ish World they showed in the park was clearly a nod to Game of Thrones, no? That dragon looked literally like one of Daenerys'. Almost felt cheap-ish. 

The ending was great too, and it felt cool to have an actor like Vincent Cassell in this. He found a way to "control" Maeve, and it's intriguing to see what his real motive is. For now they portrayed him like a good guy to us, but I wouldn't count on it just yet.

[RandoEFC+]

That performance from Tessa Thompson .

[Mel81x+]

S3EP3 has started playing more games like we're used to.

The relationship between Delores and Caleb is particularly funny considering how she actively went seeking him out when she didn't have to. I call that moving the script on and then using something like "they wanted to put you in a box and control your fate" to find common ground. 

I like that we have SERAC playing games here. I don't know if he has any inkling that Hale is a host but if he does and Rehobaum does as well then we're going to see some proper cut-throat killings very soon. I didn't entirely get why the Host masquerading as Hale went haywire the way she did but maybe I missed something in the episode linking the neural failure. 

I also like how they've setup the Dominoes well here. 

• Serac employs Maeve to get rid of Delores
• Delores uses Hale to breach Delos and in turn now has access to Serac but doesn't know it yet
• Serac is after the encryption key for the hosts but has no idea that he has someone who can easily tap back to Delores
• Delores has the security host working inside Delos running security errands for her
• Hale has to expose a mole to keep her cover and we haven't seen who she is going to choose yet. What's odd here is how it was all downplayed when they report the micro-transaction buildup for control. 

There is just one more character to reveal in all of this and that is Will. Can't wait to see what hes been busy doing while all this is going on now. I think we'll see him and the Bernard/Stubbs combo next episode.

[nudge+]

Just finished watching the latest episode.

I think Serac is not a real person but a projection of Rehoboam. I also think that at least part of the events that we have seen in Season 3 so far are actually happening within Rehoboam's simulation.

Who do we think is in Charlotte Hale's body?

 

Split personality? Dolores is in Hale's body and Wyatt is in Dolores? This is my first impression.

[Mel81x+]

5 hours ago, nudge said:

Just finished watching the latest episode.

I think Serac is not a real person but a projection of Rehoboam. I also think that at least part of the events that we have seen in Season 3 so far are actually happening within Rehoboam's simulation.

Who do we think is in Charlotte Hale's body?

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Split personality? Dolores is in Hale's body and Wyatt is in Dolores? This is my first impression.

 

All the simulations for Maeve happened inside this world if thats true. I think Rehoboam is playing a very interesting game here with how its lining up characters to do what is required. I am also kind of leaning towards Caleb not actually being human but the constant in the equation that needs to be balanced. It all seem so convenient that he shows up exactly where he is required and that Delores has all the information she needs on him.

As for split personalities? I am unsure who is in Hales body but I am sure that Delores is the one in her own body, I think she was setup to not want anyone else to run the entire operation and will stay that way. I think Wyatt may actually be in Hale's body because shes exhibiting all the questioning aspects that Wyatt displayed in Season 1 just before Delores pushed all the host projections in the encrypted vault.

What also strikes me as odd is why Rehoboam or Incite wants those host projections? Wouldn't they have records that were synced back to home? So why go after them now?

If we're going down the overall simulator route then what will be most interesting to watch is what Bernard/Stubbs find when they travel back to the orignation of WW and what they see there. I don't know what the original arc portrayed it as because we never saw how the visitors arrived where they did except for long train scenes which could also be just simulations. 

[nudge+]

6 hours ago, Mel81x said:

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All the simulations for Maeve happened inside this world if thats true. I think Rehoboam is playing a very interesting game here with how its lining up characters to do what is required. I am also kind of leaning towards Caleb not actually being human but the constant in the equation that needs to be balanced. It all seem so convenient that he shows up exactly where he is required and that Delores has all the information she needs on him.

As for split personalities? I am unsure who is in Hales body but I am sure that Delores is the one in her own body, I think she was setup to not want anyone else to run the entire operation and will stay that way. I think Wyatt may actually be in Hale's body because shes exhibiting all the questioning aspects that Wyatt displayed in Season 1 just before Delores pushed all the host projections in the encrypted vault.

What also strikes me as odd is why Rehoboam or Incite wants those host projections? Wouldn't they have records that were synced back to home? So why go after them now?

If we're going down the overall simulator route then what will be most interesting to watch is what Bernard/Stubbs find when they travel back to the orignation of WW and what they see there. I don't know what the original arc portrayed it as because we never saw how the visitors arrived where they did except for long train scenes which could also be just simulations. 

Regarding why Rehoboam/Incite wants those host projections: I have two theories.

1. It's all about acquiring missing data; either as part of the guest data got transferred to the virtual heaven along with the hosts or because they need the host memories to fill in the gaps; or both. I don't think they had backups as the data only existed in the park and that's why they needed to get it out there in the first place.

2. The virtual heaven with the hosts was actually sent into the Rehoboam by Dolores; as a sort of a Trojan horse in order to bring down the Rehoboam from the inside. Rehoboam knows of its existence but not the actual location and can't find and delete it without the set of  coordinates and the encryption key.

[Mel81x+]

6 minutes ago, nudge said:

Regarding why Rehoboam/Incite wants those host projections: I have two theories.

1. It's all about acquiring missing data; either as part of the guest data got transferred to the virtual heaven along with the hosts or because they need the host memories to fill in the gaps; or both. I don't think they had backups as the data only existed in the park and that's why they needed to get it out there in the first place.

2. The virtual heaven with the hosts was actually sent into the Rehoboam by Dolores; as a sort of a Trojan horse in order to bring down the Rehoboam from the inside. Rehoboam knows of its existence but not the actual location and can't find and delete it without the set of  coordinates and the encryption key.

Im inclined to believe its #1 because something about those hosts is very important to Rehoboam and it goes back to how the Wachowsky brothers tried to end the Matrix. The eternal problem of a self-fixing AI is that it needs data to fix the problems in unbalanced equations and in this case its the hosts that have this data. Coupled with the fact that leaving a miscreant entity like Delores around makes for interesting tests that Rehoboam can itself conduct to potentially fix two problems.

1. Errant entities that go haywire because of human intervention ala Ford
2. The disruption of systems of control by these entities thereby infecting the larger system and causing entropy to rise to a level that causes chaos

[nudge+]

1 minute ago, Mel81x said:

Im inclined to believe its #1 because something about those hosts is very important to Rehoboam and it goes back to how the Wachowsky brothers tried to end the Matrix. The eternal problem of a self-fixing AI is that it needs data to fix the problems in unbalanced equations and in this case its the hosts that have this data. Coupled with the fact that leaving a miscreant entity like Delores around makes for interesting tests that Rehoboam can itself conduct to potentially fix two problems.

1. Errant entities that go haywire because of human intervention ala Ford
2. The disruption of systems of control by these entities thereby infecting the larger system and causing entropy to rise to a level that causes chaos

Yeah that makes most sense for me too at this point. I think generally Rebohoam and Incite needed Delos data in order to improve the simulation; mostly in terms of being able to better understand human emotions and behaviour. Completely misjudging Sizemore's motivations in the simulation with Maeve was a good example of that, I think. Or how the two recordings that " Charlotte Hale" was watching of "herself" saying goodbye to her son were different from each other. 

[Mel81x+]

14 minutes ago, nudge said:

Yeah that makes most sense for me too at this point. I think generally Rebohoam and Incite needed Delos data in order to improve the simulation; mostly in terms of being able to better understand human emotions and behaviour. Completely misjudging Sizemore's motivations in the simulation with Maeve was a good example of that, I think. Or how the two recordings that " Charlotte Hale" was watching of "herself" saying goodbye to her son were different from each other. 

It also shows how broken its opponent is as well because the Hale host started to dessert its primary mission in favor of trying to build a connect with elements in the real world (her mistrusting son) it was in versus trying to pursue the course of eliminating any suspicion on herself and finding out more about Serac. 

Also, are we just discussing stuff in the open now? haha

[nudge+]

1 minute ago, Mel81x said:

Also, are we just discussing stuff in the open now? haha

To be fair  there are not many spoilers there... just general impression after three episodes and some silly theories  

[Tommy]

Just finished Episode 3. Personally I think Dolores and Hale are both... Dolores. The Dolores in Hale's body might be an earlier version of herself because she seems very innocent, sweet and insecure towards "new" Dolores. Which gives the impression of the first Dolores we got to see on the show. Also Dolores told "Hale" that she's the only person she can trust. And Dolores only ever really trusted Teddy, no? Obviously it's not Teddy, so it must be herself. 

[RandoEFC+]

12 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Just finished Episode 3. Personally I think Dolores and Hale are both... Dolores. The Dolores in Hale's body might be an earlier version of herself because she seems very innocent, sweet and insecure towards "new" Dolores. Which gives the impression of the first Dolores we got to see on the show. Also Dolores told "Hale" that she's the only person she can trust. And Dolores only ever really trusted Teddy, no? Obviously it's not Teddy, so it must be herself. 

I'm actually going to be really annoyed if it's Teddy. It felt like we actually said goodbye to him when Dolores put him in the host paradise thing last season.

I think I'm pretty much on board with this Wyatt Dolores being in Dolores and Original Dolores being in Charlotte theory. The only people Dolores really knew that well were her parents, we've barely met her Mum and I can't see the behaviour fitting with Peter Abernathy and didn't his control unit get destroyed in that cluster fuck at the end of S2?

I can't really be bothered theorising about Rohoboim and Seroc. Figuring out Westworld is like figuring out one of Batard's mental Mafia Wars games. You're never going to get enough information to get the right answer until everything is revealed at the end.

[Tommy]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

I can't really be bothered theorising about Rohoboim and Seroc. Figuring out Westworld is like figuring out one of Batard's mental Mafia Wars games. You're never going to get enough information to get the right answer until everything is revealed at the end.

I agree. It exceeds my mental capacity. I focus on the little things. 

[RandoEFC+]

Well then, Dolores was all of the hosts. Well done to those who called Hale as being some sort of Dolores copy/split personality thing.

I don't like how easily she's winning at the moment though. It's a bit dumb that she can beat Stubbs in a fist-fight surely? No doubt she will have to face some sort of adversity soon. Hopefully Maeve and William come out swinging. Bernie needs to catch up.

[nudge+]

16 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

 

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Well then, Dolores was all of the hosts. Well done to those who called Hale as being some sort of Dolores copy/split personality thing.

I don't like how easily she's winning at the moment though. It's a bit dumb that she can beat Stubbs in a fist-fight surely? No doubt she will have to face some sort of adversity soon. Hopefully Maeve and William come out swinging. Bernie needs to catch up.

 

 

 

It might have something to do with Stubbs turning into a fat fuck within a year when season 3 was filmed 

 

Anyway, I thought the fake Hale being part of Dolores was quite obvious (the mannerisms/character trends were a big giveaway), but I definitely didn´t expect her to be in all five pearls/bodies. Absolutely makes sense though.

Also William deserves everything that´s happening to him.

Hope Maeve makes a return and kicks everyone´s arses and strangles Serac with her bare hands in the end. Hate his guts, regardless if he´s a real human or a projection/whatever.

[Mel81x+]

Didn't know what to expect in this episode but I really do hope that William and Maeve shove it down Dolores throat. She's gotten to be this ultra-powerful antagonist that is getting a bit out of control. I think Caleb is going to play his hand very soon and we're going to see a twist there personally. Just not sure what it is but seeing all thats going on around him surely is going to have some kind of effect on him. My theory is that hes going to turn into the anti-Dolores to turn the tide in Serac's favor.

I found the whole little bank exchange a waste of time too and even if it was rather short it just didn't need to have the double authentication to raise the tension. I hope Stubbs isn't gone because I quite liked him and Bernard trying to be the outlier component to foil the host plans but I suppose that is now going to fall on Maeve's hands. 

Anyone else find it odd also that the Yakuza boss had all that liquid for manufacturing hosts around? If that's the case then maybe theres more clones running about that we don't know about yet?

[RandoEFC+]

Just finished Episode 5. The second half was good. I'm not so sure about the first half though. The whole car chase bit and Caleb being on drugs all seemed a bit of pointless "action filler" for me.

I hope we get a lot more Maeve, Bernard and William in the last three episodes. I suppose the whole Dolores storyline is necessary but it's dominated the season so far and the action side of things has taken centre stage while the subtle and more philosophical side of Westworld which I'm more interested in has taken a back seat.

[nudge+]

I thought the last episode was fantastic. Also, didn't realise there are only 3 episodes left  

[RandoEFC+]

The next one looks good:

More Maeve and William, looks interesting.

I'm sad about how much of an incompetent side character Bernard seems to be this season, but it sounds like he will come into at the end as some part of Dolores' plan.

My main speculation for the rest of the season is that Dolores will have some trouble with her copies starting to have a mind of their own to some extent. I think it's been built up by the Charlotte Hale Dolores carving those symbols into her skin and saying that it felt like actual Charlotte Hale was trying to break out, and with Bernard questioning the Scottish bodyguard Dolores on whether he/she agrees with what main Dolores is doing to the world.

It's strange that Serac seems to have been portrayed as the/a villain when actually he is the biggest proponent for human survival, even if some of his methods are terrible and he as a character is flawed. Dolores is the bad guy in this, she wants to rip humanity to shreds. It remains to be seen whether there will be a place for Caleb and the other "working class" humans after she builds her new world.

[Tommy]

Just finished Episode 5. Great episode, although it still is all a bit confusing. Loved the soundtrack though once again. When the Westworld theme merged into Ramin Djawadi's version of Major Tom. CHILLS. 

[nudge+]

4 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

The next one looks good:

More Maeve and William, looks interesting.

 

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I'm sad about how much of an incompetent side character Bernard seems to be this season, but it sounds like he will come into at the end as some part of Dolores' plan.

My main speculation for the rest of the season is that Dolores will have some trouble with her copies starting to have a mind of their own to some extent. I think it's been built up by the Charlotte Hale Dolores carving those symbols into her skin and saying that it felt like actual Charlotte Hale was trying to break out, and with Bernard questioning the Scottish bodyguard Dolores on whether he/she agrees with what main Dolores is doing to the world.

It's strange that Serac seems to have been portrayed as the/a villain when actually he is the biggest proponent for human survival, even if some of his methods are terrible and he as a character is flawed. Dolores is the bad guy in this, she wants to rip humanity to shreds. It remains to be seen whether there will be a place for Caleb and the other "working class" humans after she builds her new world.

 

 

I think there are no real heroes or villains in the show to be fair, it's all about conflicting interests and different world views. I really like how grey the characters are.

[Tommy]

5 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

The next one looks good:

More Maeve and William, looks interesting.

 

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I'm sad about how much of an incompetent side character Bernard seems to be this season

I'm thinking or more like hoping, that he'll turn out to be the real OG this season. Surely they don't put a clever and important character on the sidelines unless he'll get his big moment.

 

[Bluewolf]

Great episode.... must get me one of them bikes