Munir's Appeal to Switch Allegiance to Spain Dismissed

[Dave]

 

Munir El Haddadi has appealed to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in his bid to switch allegiance from Spain to Morocco ahead of the World Cup.

CAS said in a statement that forward Munir, who is on loan at Alaves from Barcelona, had appealed jointly with the Moroccan Football Federation (FMF) after FIFA turned down his request on March 13.

FIFA rules bar players from switching allegiance once they have played a competitive international even if they hold dual nationality.

[SirBalon]

This has been going on for at least 5 months now.  It's apparently upto Spain to allow this to happen which until now they've denied. They haven't denied it to destroy Munir's dreams of playing international football at the highest stage, but because of how this would affect the football rules. They've (Spain) apparently been advised not to permit it which they do have the power to do.

[Azeem]

Didn't Costa played for Brazil at senior level then switched to Spain ?

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, Devon Von Devon said:

Didn't Costa played for Brazil at senior level then switched to Spain ?

I don't know if he actually got to play. I know he was selected for a friendly (against Italy I think), but didn't actually come on. To be honest I'm not sure but what I do know is that there was a technicality on Costa's situation on which he personally appealed to FIFA.

[True Blue]

Pathetic, after not being able to get into the Spain team now he wants to play for Morocco who qualified for the World Cup without him? FIFA should only allow you to play for your birth country, if that truly happened it would represent something called a NATIONAL team, not a team full of foreigners just like in club football.

[SirBalon]

19 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Pathetic, after not being able to get into the Spain team now he wants to play for Morocco who qualified for the World Cup without him? FIFA should only allow you to play for your birth country, if that truly happened it would represent something called a NATIONAL team, not a team full of foreigners just like in club football.

That birth issue is wrong in the case of people like Munir... Both his parents are Moroccan and just because he happened to be born in Spain that doesn't change the fact that he should have a choice mate.  Where I'm with you is that he had that choice and he chose Spain (let's also not forget the words he said when he made this choice which is now hindering him) which he should understand that now he can't just change his mind.  Spain in real terms don't mind giving him the permission to change but from what's been said over the past few months on this case is that FIFA are hoping Spain won't do it because it would open up a big problem with other players that have done the same thing.  This one is a high profile case because it's Spain, but apparently there are over 200 players currently playing in world football that have done this and imagine the chaos.

[True Blue]

I agree i probably put this one out wrong, for example i am born in Bosnia and both of my parents are from Bosnia but i am born in Nigeria. So i have the option to play either for Nigeria which is my birth country or Bosnia my origin country. However Munir chose Spain, couldn't get himself a place in the team now he wants to play for Morocco who already qualified without him? I wouldn't accept it if i was the Morocco national association even if Spain agrees.

[Danny]

Made his choice tough shit

[SirBalon]

38 minutes ago, True Blue said:

I agree i probably put this one out wrong, for example i am born in Bosnia and both of my parents are from Bosnia but i am born in Nigeria. So i have the option to play either for Nigeria which is my birth country or Bosnia my origin country. However Munir chose Spain, couldn't get himself a place in the team now he wants to play for Morocco who already qualified without him? I wouldn't accept it if i was the Morocco national association even if Spain agrees.

I actually know quite a bit about this particular case surrounding Munir because I have found it very interesting right from the outset when he originally chose to play for Spain... Let's recap a bit for those that are really interested because it's important seeing as so many players throughout history have chosen to play for another country which wasn't the land of birth.  Morality and ethics also come into play here which I will go into later for those that are brave enough to read one of my long posts... 

Let's go back in time to when he made the choice to play for Spain...

So Munir El-Haddadi breaks onto the scene as a very promising young player...

He has already played for Spain at youth level but Morocco come knocking on his door as there is still a door open for him to choose football nationality under existing FIFA rules.  They call him and try to convince Munir to choose Morocco and their future project.  Munir's dad himself who was born in Morocco obviously and understandably would prefer to see his son play for the North African side who he also joins in in trying to convince his son in his decision.  But Munir being brought up in Spain (his words) says that he loves his heritage and is and always will be part Moroccan but wants to play for Spain because of his upbringing. So he makes his choice and Vicente del Bosque calls him up for a friendly where he comes on in the second half to make his official debut... The moment he steps onto that pitch as a player for Spain is where the rules take effect and he officially becomes a Spanish national footballer.  He knew this, he was told by the three footballing authorities involved in the case (Spain, Morocco and FIFA) that this action on his decision would be final.

The situation is thus though... There is a loop hole in the FIFA rules because it was a friendly.  Providing both national football federations (Spain and Morocco) agree, the player can be permitted to change footballing nationality because of the player's heritage which comes into human rights and ethics laws.  Seeing as Morocco have had a very good World Cup qualifying campaign and already have a good team, they want to bolster it if possible with Munir.  So the Moroccan football federation call Munir's father and inform him of this loophole where Munir then goes to the RFEF with a lawyer stating that he would like to have permission to change allegiance.  The Spanish football federation (RFEF) tell Munir that they themselves won't hold him back if he wants to change but that there will almost certainly be administrative obstacles placed in front of him... So Spain tell the Munir family to take the case to FIFA and that Spain will then act according to FIFA's advice alone.

So here is where the conundrum finishes and we have the present situation...

Whats occurring is that everyone wants to wash their hands off the morality involved in this case.

Spain want FIFA to make the decision and FIFA want Spain to do it, only that FIFA don't want Spain to confirm the change and send Munir's footballing licence to Morocco so as it can have the nationality stamp changed.  In other words, FIFA have said... "Do it, but if you do you're going to open a can of worms forever on this!".

Think about it... Football in France is 90% this case with all of their players! Without even citing many other nations with this situation, imagine what this would cause.

So Morocco continue to call the RFEF in Madrid begging them to make the decision and Spain are consistently telling Morocco that they have no problem in sending the licence but that they want FIFA to give the go ahead.

 

Now comes the morality and ethical situation here which we touched upon in the previous posts...

In not so rare cases such as these (I say not so rare because in this modern world and due to mass emigration everywhere, you have millions of cases of children born to parents from other parts in a new country), people move and settle down elsewhere.  This doesn't eradicate or delete their heritage!  Only people that have this situation at hand can really know how it feels.  I can imagine it's not easy to be forced to make a choice of allegiance where nationality is concerned because your parents will almost definitely speak their language of birth at home in this different country.  You will be brought up knowing that language like it was your native language, but at the same time YOUR country of birth is now somewhere different of which you also speak and understand that language as if it were your own which it also is.  Then the cultural issue where you will almost definitely be brought up at home culturally where food and ethics are concerned according to your parents ideals from back home and will almost certainly be associating with other social circles in the same vein due to your parents.

Do you get how a choice like this isn't as straight forward?

Its not about birth... It's about how you genuinely feel because you're upbringing isn't the same as someone who is genuinely native!  Everything surrounding your life is mixed and that counts sentimentally, ethically, morally and also officially as factual!

So to delete without precedence a moral and ethical choice with reasoning is incorrect, especially in modern society where people move around so much.

[Spike]

Probably didn't help that as a youngster the Spanish FA approached him to play for the youth teams before Morocco.

[SirBalon]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Probably didn't help that as a youngster the Spanish FA approached him to play for the youth teams before Morocco.

The youth setups don't take precedence over a choice of national football allegiance though mate.  And Spain acted with all normality when the youth national coaches select available players for international games.  Munir was a Soanish national with a Spanish nationality football licence. That is a completely normal case in this sense!

Where players are approached in a different manner are ones such as Griezmann, Messi, Theo Hernández (just to name more recent ones in the eye's retina) due to the fact all those players had dual nationality (they've been in Soain since teenagers) and dual football licences.

I have to add that in Messi's case he had to apply for an Argentinian federative licence when he finally chose to play for his country of birth as he didn't yet have one and got it on the basis of the fact he was born in Argentina.

[Spike]

Just now, SirBalon said:

The youth setups don't take precedence over a choice of national football allegiance though mate.  And Spain acted with all normality when the youth national coaches select available players for international games.  Munir was a Soanish national with a Spanish nationality football licence. That is a completely normal case in this sense!

Where players are approached in a different manner are ones such as Griezmann, Messi, Theo Hernández (just to name more recent ones in the eye's retina) due to the fact all those players had dual nationality (they've been in Soain since teenagers) and dual football licences.

I have to add that in Messi's case he had to apply for an Argentinian federative licence when he finally chose to play for his country of birth as he didn't yet have one and got it on the basis of the fact he was born in Argentina.

That isn't my point though. Just that when he has played for the youth teams it probably made sense to progress to the senior. Even if Morrocco was always a choice for him when Spain asks first it'd be hard to say no.

[Azeem]

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

I don't know if he actually got to play. I know he was selected for a friendly (against Italy I think), but didn't actually come on. To be honest I'm not sure but what I do know is that there was a technicality on Costa's situation on which he personally appealed to FIFA.

According to Wikipedia he came on as a sub against Italy and four days later against Russia 

[SirBalon]

9 minutes ago, Devon Von Devon said:

According to Wikipedia he came on as a sub against Italy and four days later against Russia 

Well it's the same situation that Munir has now then... What I don't know is if Costa's friendly appearances were before the law change where FIFA added friendlies to the confirmation of football nationality.

[Azeem]

@Spike

Daniel Arzani, he is an Iranian playing for Australia U-17 and making quite a name for himself. Iranian FA on the the request of Carlos Queiroz asked him to join the Iranian youth squad but he refused and said he want to progress in the Aussie youth setup. If he chooses to play for Iran at senior level despite being offered to play for Australia, do you as an Australian will feel aggrieved or see just as his personal decision ?

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, Devon Von Devon said:

@Spike

Daniel Arzani, he is an Iranian playing for Australia U-17 and making quite a name for himself. Iranian FA on the the request of Carlos Queiroz asked him to join the Iranian youth squad but he refused and said he want to progress in the Aussie youth setup. If he chooses to play for Iran at senior level despite being offered to play for Australia, do you as an Australian will feel aggrieved or see just as his personal decision ?

It isn't my place to judge. Life isn't black and white he can feel both Iranian and Australian. 

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

It isn't my place to judge. Life isn't black and white he can feel both Iranian and Australian. 

It's getting slightly off topic although in reality it really isn't to be honest because I have an inkling this football rule will change once again and should do to be honest...

Hypothetically speaking...

You are an Aussie, your wife is from the Philippines... If you had a child in the US, and he turned out to be a massive football prospect, what would you be hoping his choice would be? (Please please don't answer with the fact you'll respect his choice because any parent would.  I'm talking about your sentiments on this)

[Azeem]

11 minutes ago, Spike said:

It isn't my place to judge. Life isn't black and white he can feel both Iranian and Australian. 

See it from this angle, Iran was also ready to invest on him on youth level but he stayed in Australia because he can develope more here as a footballer but all the way he had the mind to play for Iran.

Just like Benzema regarding France and Algeria

 

[Spike]

8 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

It's getting slightly off topic although in reality it really isn't to be honest because I have an inkling this football rule will change once again and should do to be honest...

Hypothetically speaking...

You are an Aussie, your wife is from the Philippines... If you had a child in the US, and he turned out to be a massive football prospect, what would you be hoping his choice would be? (Please please don't answer with the fact you'll respect his choice because any parent would.  I'm talking about your sentiments on this)

I don't know... preferably US or Australia. The Philippine relationship would be tenuous at best as it would be only throuh grandparents. It wouod ultimately come down to which FA is more sincere in his development rather than seeing him as a tool to progress through the rankings. Ultimately I'm biased towards Australia and since I'm more patriotic than my wife that would probably rub off on him. 

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, Devon Von Devon said:

See it from this angle, Iran was also ready to invest on him on youth level but he stayed in Australia because he can develope more here as a footballer but all the way he had the mind to play for Iran.

Just like Benzema regarding France and Algeria

 

I don't care as long as their is a sincerity and dignity in representing the nation. Benzema doesn't care for France that is obvious and only plays for glory, which is shameful. A player has a dury to themselves as well as their nation. If he played for Australia for glory he can fuck right off, if he plays for Iran because he thinks it would be easier to be selected he can fuck right off as well. But of course he may want to represent bith nations because he feels they are a part of his identity.

[Azeem]

16 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

It's getting slightly off topic although in reality it really isn't to be honest because I have an inkling this football rule will change once again and should do to be honest...

Hypothetically speaking...

You are Spanish/Brit, your wife/husband is from Bosnia... If you had a child in Pakistan, and he turned out to be a massive football prospect, what would you be hoping his choice would be? (Please please don't answer with the fact you'll respect his choice because any parent would.  I'm talking about your sentiments on this)

[SirBalon]

20 minutes ago, Devon Von Devon said:

Hahahahahaha 

I'm more blatant mate, I'm a very passionate person which has either led me down the right but more so down the wrong path on reactions during my life.

I would certainly try to influence my son if I sensed he hadn't made a decision. In saying this, the moment he tells me he has a firm decision, I know my influencing would cease and I would definitely respect his decision.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, True Blue said:

Pathetic, after not being able to get into the Spain team now he wants to play for Morocco who qualified for the World Cup without him? FIFA should only allow you to play for your birth country, if that truly happened it would represent something called a NATIONAL team, not a team full of foreigners just like in club football.

Disagree.

I have a friend here in Peru that considers himself full blooded Peruvian, but he was born in Chile and lived there for 3-4 months. If he was a footballer, he'd pick Peru all day long. I'm also not against nationalizing yourself meaning you could play for another nation, but only if you've done the 5 year process which is in FIFA regulations. 

[Stan]

appeal dismissed. Stuck with allegiance to Spain.

 

[6666]

I remember when Roy Hodgson called up Zaha, even though he had only played Championship football, in order to tie him down to England and Hodgson thought he'd done the job after playing him in a friendly not knowing it had to be a competitive match.