Wednesday 25th April - Bayern Munich 1-2 Real Madrid (SF 1st Leg)

[Inverted]

I think in terms of recruitment, players of less-rated countries might get overlooked sometimes, or might need to do more to catch the eye. But once a player is in a team, the way people interpret their performances is generally more personal.

When you're the goalie of one of the few superclubs, you're expected to be perfect and every single mistake gets huge scrutiny. Ulreich has been getting slaughtered all season at Bayern and he's German. He's a good goalie, but the criticism takes an extra level because it's Bayern and "good" isn't anywhere near what they expect of a goalie.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

I could find thousands of posts on twitter confirming the world is flat. Doesn’t make it so. Why would Navas being mistake prone have anything to do with nationality? I’m genuinely perplexed.

Why does it have anything to do with his club? When he's there, I don't think the manager cares about his nationality if he's already there. I'm talking about fans, and not good football fans either.

[bozziovai]

11 hours ago, Blue said:

Its clear you do have to try, now you're moving the goalposts. It's exactly what you're doing now.

And people do target him because of his nationality. Whether you like it or not that's a reality. If you think that's stupid, good for you. You're wrong.

He makes errors, yes but then those same people disappear when he has a good game.

this is becoming ridiculous.   why would you shove it in our throats that we pan Navas for his nationality ???  nobody here.  NONE.     if you say a lot of people slammed Navas for his nationality, well, for fack's sake, go to Twitter and defend Navas on Twitter - NOT HERE.     

what you're doing is borderline trolling .....

[Berserker]

To be fair it's absolutely truth some players get way more scrutinized and criticized than others, in the same club and period and under the same chairman and manager. It has mostly to do with the press, or in some cases an egocentric crazy chairman (like Perez for example) along with it. Press pretty much dictates a player career and rep, two equally good players playing in the same position in the same club under the same manager and chairmen in the same season could be guilty of the same mistake but one may get a far harsher treatment for it than the other, because the press will make articles about that mistake from said player, they'll put in big and bold in their frontpage, whereas they won't give the same treatment to the other player, they won't even talk about his mistake, instead of saying he sucked and did this or missed this they will highlight the other good things he made and just don't talk about the mistake if they wanna make him look good. Rinse and repeat, and you'll get retarded people (sheeps) repeating what they heard on TV or read on the paper and slating said player on social media and the likes and praising the other player like he was a perfect machine that never made any mistake when in reality both were faulty of the same mistakes, as no player is perfect and every one of them makes mistakes, the difference is how much these mistakes are highlighted and thus, remembered by the people.

 

To give an example, does anyone remember one of Neuer's big mistakes?, do you guys talk all the time of the mistake De Gea was guilty of a few weeks ago?,  i don't think so.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Berserker said:

No, we wouldn't. There are so many Argentinians in Europe, not only because they're good, but also because many hold EU citizenships, which is extremely important for most clubs. We along Uruguay are probably the countries with the highest percentage of people with EU citizenships in Latin America. Peru and Colombia don't even come near, how many Colombian or Peruvian players have you seen with dual nationality (one being European)? i couldn't think of any that has had one before going to Europe and obtaining it there through residency.

Yeah, you're definitely right about that. I always try to stress how important EU nationality is for clubs due to the rules. Its why we see a lot of Danish and Croatian players in western European clubs but not Ukrainians or Serbians. Harder to obtain and more risky.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Berserker said:

To be fair it's absolutely truth some players get way more scrutinized and criticized than others, in the same club and period and under the same chairman and manager. It has mostly to do with the press, or in some cases an egocentric crazy chairman (like Perez for example) along with it. Press pretty much dictates a player career and rep, two equally good players playing in the same position in the same club under the same manager and chairmen in the same season could be guilty of the same mistake but one may get a far harsher treatment for it than the other, because the press will make articles about that mistake from said player, they'll put in big and bold in their frontpage, whereas they won't give the same treatment to the other player, they won't even talk about his mistake, instead of saying he sucked and did this or missed this they will highlight the other good things he made and just don't talk about the mistake if they wanna make him look good. Rinse and repeat, and you'll get retarded people (sheeps) repeating what they heard on TV or read on the paper and slating said player on social media and the likes and praising the other player like he was a perfect machine that never made any mistake when in reality both were faulty of the same mistakes, as no player is perfect and every one of them makes mistakes, the difference is how much these mistakes are highlighted and thus, remembered by the people.

 

To give an example, does anyone remember one of Neuer's big mistakes?, do you guys talk all the time of the mistake De Gea was guilty of a few weeks ago?,  i don't think so.

 

Exactly what I'm getting at. If Navas was German, he wouldn't be so panned. He has his good games and his bad games, not his constant bad games like people seem to think.

[Berserker]

9 minutes ago, Blue said:

Exactly what I'm getting at. If Navas was German, he wouldn't be so panned. He has his good games and his bad games, not his constant bad games like people seem to think.

To be fair i don't think the nationality is 100% the culprit. More so the rep, profile of the player.

[Guest]

Just now, Berserker said:

To be fair i don't think the nationality is 100% the culprit. More so the rep, profile of the player.

Yeah, maybe I exagerrated having put all the blame on it, but the profile of the player can also be shown by nationality.

I don't think a player like Pogba can have this profile if he was Honduran. Hell, he wouldn't even be playing for United in that case.

[bozziovai]

7 minutes ago, Blue said:

Yeah, maybe I exagerrated having put all the blame on it, but the profile of the player can also be shown by nationality.

I don't think a player like Pogba can have this profile if he was Honduran. Hell, he wouldn't even be playing for United in that case.

you're being a racist here.

just look at Iker Casillas --   a Spaniard !!!   Saint Iker !!!  Captain of the all conquering Spanish National Team !!!    But his performance went down for some reason, so he was benched and eventually dispatched by Madrid.

so stop with this nationality bullshit .....

[Stan]

23 minutes ago, Blue said:

Exactly what I'm getting at. If Navas was German, he wouldn't be so panned. He has his good games and his bad games, not his constant bad games like people seem to think.

1) on here, who thinks that is down to his nationality and not just his ability?

2) if it's no-one on here, take that argument to the people that do think it whether that's on Twitter or your blog or your podcast or whatever

3) if he has his bad games, he has his bad games. Anyone who does blame that on his nationality is a tool anyway. But people are allowed their opinions on whether he's a good/bad keeper or not. You can't assume that everyone who thinks he's a bad goal-keeper thinks so because of his nationality. Maybe they just think he's shit?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

1) on here, who thinks that is down to his nationality and not just his ability?

2) if it's no-one on here, take that argument to the people that do think it whether that's on Twitter or your blog or your podcast or whatever

3) if he has his bad games, he has his bad games. Anyone who does blame that on his nationality is a tool anyway. But people are allowed their opinions on whether he's a good/bad keeper or not. You can't assume that everyone who thinks he's a bad goal-keeper thinks so because of his nationality. Maybe they just think he's shit?

1. I never said on here

2. I have a right to share my views, whether people think I am crazy

3. This is true, but again if he was German, people would be silent at his errors. I've seen it oh so many times in the past. I recall Buffon having a bad run of form and conceding several howlers, not a peep from some people. Its just the way football fans are.

[bozziovai]

10 minutes ago, Blue said:

1. I never said on here

2. I have a right to share my views, whether people think I am crazy

3. This is true, but again if he was German, people would be silent at his errors. I've seen it oh so many times in the past. I recall Buffon having a bad run of form and conceding several howlers, not a peep from some people. Its just the way football fans are.

funny or stupid.  take your pick.    your answer to number 2 didn't coincide with your answer on number 1.

how can you say that you have the right to share your views when fact of the matter is, you admitted on number 1 that you never said something about this "nationality BS" here, that they were only  the views of people from other social media outlets. ( twitter )

 

better re-read the questions of Stan ......

[Guest]

1 minute ago, bozziovai said:

funny or stupid.  take your pick.    your answer to number 2 didn't coincide with your answer on number 1.

how can you say that you have the right to share your views when fact of the matter is, you admitted on number 1 that you never said something about this "nationality BS" here, that they were only  the views of people from other social media outlets. ( twitter )

 

better re-read the questions of Stan ......

Take some reading lectures  I was talking about the people on here, who never said anything.

Keylor is an easy target because he's Costa Rican and not German, but that doesn't mean his mistakes have to do with his nationality. Maybe I should have worded that a bit better

[DeadLinesman]

I remember panning De Gea in his early days because he was mistake prone. I didn’t think “well he’s Spanish so I’ll let him off. Bloody good job he’s not Venezuelan though or I’d have something to say about it!”.

 I’ve genuinely never considered nationality if deciding whether a player is shite or not. It’s just absolutely non sensical.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

I remember panning De Gea in his early days because he was mistake prone. I didn’t think “well he’s Spanish so I’ll let him off. Bloody job he’s not Venezuelan though or I’d have something to say about it!”.

 I’ve genuinely never considered nationality if deciding whether a player is shite or not. It’s just absolutely non sensical.

That's because you're a good football fan  

[DeadLinesman]

Just now, Blue said:

That's because you're a good football fan  

You’ve changed your tune  

[bozziovai]

8 minutes ago, Blue said:

Take some reading lectures  I was talking about the people on here, who never said anything.

Keylor is an easy target because he's Costa Rican and not German, but that doesn't mean his mistakes have to do with his nationality. Maybe I should have worded that a bit better

you should also learn to respect the forum board.     like i said, that nationality bullshit doesn't come from you nor anyone here, it comes from twitter, why would you bring it on here.     Go battle it out with the people in Twitter.   Not here.

 

and for fack's sake, no matter how you sugar coat your words, saying that he is south american is the reason why he's targeted is just plain stupid.     this is Real Madrid we're talking about, they don't facking care about your nationality, they only care about your performance.    Have you read what i said about Iker Casillas or you're doing selective reading just to sway the discussion your way ???

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

You’ve changed your tune  

I have, I've rised above the dislike!

I've never thought you were a bad football fan though, I just didn't like you in general. The latter has changed.

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, Blue said:

I have, I've rised above the dislike!

I've never thought you were a bad football fan though, I just didn't like you in general. The latter has changed.

savage  

[Berserker]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

I have, I've rised above the dislike!

I've never thought you were a bad football fan though, I just didn't like you in general. The latter has changed.

[Panflute]

4 hours ago, Blue said:

3. This is true, but again if he was German, people would be silent at his errors. I've seen it oh so many times in the past. I recall Buffon having a bad run of form and conceding several howlers, not a peep from some people. Its just the way football fans are.

Which people? People on here? Why did you bring it up in this thread at all? You see, when people in this thread are discussing Navas's performance and you barge in saying "people wouldn't criticize him if he wasn't Costa Rican" that comes across as an accusation. If you're talking about a few random morons on Twitter then power to you but I don't see why you'd have to drag that into a discussion focused solely on his recent performances.

Comparing Buffon to Navas is also stupid because Navas has never been as good a goalkeeper as Buffon. Buffon has been among the top 3 goalkeepers for at least a decade so that builds you a lot more credit than having a few solid seasons at Madrid.

As someone already pointed out, Casillas, crowd favourite, Spaniard and a better goalkeeper in his prime than Navas, got criticized severely as soon as he grew less reliable. Was it just? Maybe not, but it shows you that regardless of nationality you will get heavy criticism if you are not at peak performance. Raúl and even Ronaldo in the first half of this season would tell you the same.

[Guest]

Just now, Panflute said:

Which people? People on here? Why did you bring it up in this thread at all? You see, when people in this thread are discussing Navas's performance and you barge in saying "people wouldn't criticize him if he wasn't Costa Rican" that comes across as an accusation. If you're talking about a few random morons on Twitter then power to you but I don't see why you'd have to drag that into a discussion focused solely on his recent performances.

Comparing Buffon to Navas is also stupid because Navas has never been as good a goalkeeper as Buffon. Buffon has been among the top 3 goalkeepers for at least a decade so that builds you a lot more credit than having a few solid seasons at Madrid.

As someone already pointed out, Casillas, crowd favourite, Spaniard and a better goalkeeper in his prime than Navas, got criticized severely as soon as he grew less reliable. Was it just? Maybe not, but it shows you that regardless of nationality you will get heavy criticism if you are not at peak performance. Raúl and even Ronaldo in the first half of this season would tell you the same.

The Casillas example is terrible actually, because Casillas was making mistake after mistake and had no more merits, where as Keylor Navas despite some of his howlers is still doing decently well. Totally different.

My example wasn't about Buffon, but rather the fact that a highly rated German, Spanish or Italian keeper can get away with criticism for mistakes where as a Costa Rican can't making him a target. Its the truth of things I'm afraid, you could debate it all day but ultimately its how things are. The English are also a target. Joe Hart is terrible, but there was a time where he was doing alright and every mistake he'd get torn apart by locals. I don't see the likes of De Gea, Neuer or Pepe Reina get torn apart for those. 

And as for your first point, I am literally allowed to share my views on a football forum. I didn't even realize it was about recent performances, as I've seen people say Navas isn't RM material since he joined.

[Guest]

Here is another example: Wayne Rooney. Top scorer of his nation's history and he got criticized every time he put an England shirt on. Why? Because he's English. He was a top player many years for Manchester United and people would be wanking off to him if he was Germany's all time top scorer. I get that he didn't play as well for England and always performed in irrelevant matches, but that outdid some of what he did at United to some people. Just more proof that nationality can make you a target. If you don't agree with me, then you can have fun having a wrong opinion and agree to disagree. Its often a common South American mentality anyways.

[nudge+]

Wow, the arrogance...

[Guest]

Just now, nudge said:

Wow, the arrogance...

Its not arrogance though, its the truth.

Its like saying a bald man has hair. You could debate it all day but at the end of the day, its wrong. 

Footballers are targetted because of their nationality, its not 100% the reason they are. If a German is doing terribly, then yes you'll point it out. If a Costa Rican is doing badly but has merits, everyone will jump on the bandwagon and criticize except for obviously Costa Ricans.

Non-EU footballers don't always go to Europe if they are good. Jo went to Europe, when we have 100 of them here in Peru. I'd say in Colombia there are 500 Jo's actually.