Miguel Almiron Moves to Newcastle for £20m

[Danny]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

Yes, because the MLS is better than every league in South America except for Argentina, Brazil and Colombia.

Here you are once again missing the point of the argument. Just because clubs send their players out on loan then, that doesn't make it a feeder league. For me, that is defined by exports and profile. The Colombian league is better than the MLS but it doesn't have the necessary profile to be called that, as a result not many Europeans look there, where as they will look in the USA.

And how many of those are non-British?

Great examples, really proved my point more. Especially considering most are nobodies and are there on loan.

Right, but you originally started arguing with my point that the Championship is better than the MLS. You probably want to read the original post properly in future.

Clubs send their players there on loan so they can perform to then come back up a level and perform there, the only thing missing there is a change of club. Otherwise it's the same concept.

They're mostly British, but you started waffling on about top clubs not shopping in the Championship and I've just given you a list of players bought by a midtable club in the biggest league in the world, a league only bettered by La Liga, who consistently shop in the Championship.

Most are nobodies? You gave me two players on loan in the Championship, yet most of those players are established Premier League players. The most recent signing will surpass midtable level.

[Guest]

Just now, Danny said:

Right, but you originally started arguing with my point that the Championship is better than the MLS. You probably want to read the original post properly in future.

Clubs send their players there on loan so they can perform to then come back up a level and perform there, the only thing missing there is a change of club. Otherwise it's the same concept.

They're mostly British, but you started waffling on about top clubs not shopping in the Championship and I've just given you a list of players bought by a midtable club in the biggest league in the world, a league only bettered by La Liga, who consistently shop in the Championship.

Most are nobodies? You gave me two players on loan in the Championship, yet most of those players are established Premier League players. The most recent signing will surpass midtable level.

Yeah no shit about sending players on loan. That doesn't make them a proper "feeder league". If that's the case, the Championship is better than the Dutch league in that department.

You do realize most top clubs check in the league below them for young players right? It's called grass roots. England has the luxury of having a very good second tier but that doesn't make them a feeder league. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, PSG etc etc don't give a fuck about the championship. The MLS would have applied too but clearly that's not true because Bayern just signed Alphonso Davies. You can also add Almiron to the mix too, even if Newcastle isn't a huge club. Those 2 players alone are more relevant than any of the shit Britsh players you mentioned.

[Danny]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

Yeah no shit about sending players on loan. That doesn't make them a proper "feeder league". If that's the case, the Championship is better than the Dutch league in that department.

You do realize most top clubs check in the league below them for young players right? It's called grass roots. England has the luxury of having a very good second tier but that doesn't make them a feeder league. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, PSG etc etc don't give a fuck about the championship. The MLS would have applied too but clearly that's not true because Bayern just signed Alphonso Davies. You can also add Almiron to the mix too, even if Newcastle isn't a huge club. Those 2 players alone are more relevant than any of the shit Britsh players you mentioned.

Blue, the scouting guru that dictates who the top clubs in Europe scout. I've heard it all now  If you think they don't look at the Championship then I don't think you know how scouting works, they look everywhere. But for the record, Dale Jennings signed for Bayern from Tranmere. Ben Osborne signed for RBL from Nottingham Forest. Ronaldo Vieira left Leeds for Sampdoria. Young English players in the Championship don't need to move abroad when they can still get experience, stay in England and potentially play in the biggest league in the world. Hence why they don't move often, and if they do it's to the Prem.

The players aren't shit, what's happened is you've read some wikipedia pages, watched a couple of scouting videos and catch the highlights of the MLS and whatever else you're into, tried to set yourself up as the all knowing information point but fucked up because you don't know anything about the Championship, have been exposed for it and now getting shitty.

Like I said, that list of players was from midtable Bournemouth. The Championship still acts as a feeder league much the same as any other division that is not either La Liga or the Premier League, whether you're dealing in loan deals or full transfers.

But just to end because you're going around in circles and I'm about to have some dinner, what does the MLS being a feeder league for South Americans to go to top European leagues, and the Championship being a feeder league for British and European players to get a chance at the Premier League or beyond have to do with me saying I think he'll do well because players playing in a similar division (but not better) have stepped up to do well in the Premier League?

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Danny said:

Blue, the scouting guru that dictates who the top clubs in Europe scout. I've heard it all now  If you think they don't look at the Championship then I don't think you know how scouting works, they look everywhere. But for the record, Dale Jennings signed for Bayern from Tranmere. Ben Osborne signed for RBL from Nottingham Forest. Ronaldo Vieira left Leeds for Sampdoria. Young English players in the Championship don't need to move abroad when they can still get experience, stay in England and potentially play in the biggest league in the world. Hence why they don't move often, and if they do it's to the Prem.

 The players aren't shit, what's happened is you've read some wikipedia pages, watched a couple of scouting videos and catch the highlights of the MLS and whatever else you're into, tried to set yourself up as the all knowing information point but fucked up because you don't know anything about the Championship, have been exposed for it and now getting shitty.

 Like I said, that list of players was from midtable Bournemouth. The Championship still acts as a feeder league much the same as any other division that is not either La Liga or the Premier League, whether you're dealing in loan deals or full transfers.

But just to end because you're going around in circles and I'm about to have some dinner, what does the MLS being a feeder league for South Americans to go to top European leagues, and the Championship being a feeder league for British and European players to get a chance at the Premier League or beyond have to do with me saying I think he'll do well because players playing in a similar division (but not better) have stepped up to do well in the Premier League?

  

Well, to be fair - and I know it's a higher standard in England, but more South Americans get exposure to the world due to playing with their national teams - ultimately when they move to the MLS. The fact I've only heard the names of those English players but not even seen videos says a lot I think.

And I can confirm - no wikipedia pages have been read in the making of these posts. Nor have videos been watched. In fact, the only player of those I've seen was King, and that was a few years back too. I'm not that passionate about winning this debacle. I can tell you've read Wikipedia though because you've just now mentioned those 3 players in the first paragraph - and I have only heard of Ronaldo Vieira. 

Back to the first paragraph though, if you don't play for your national team, then you won't have as many clubs chasing after you. regardless how shit the NT is. Especially when you're South American, where pretty much all the teams are competitive and have some sort of football history. 

You're right I don't know a lot about the Championship, but I don't know a lot about the Nepali league either and I can confirm that the MLS has a higher profile than both. Bielsa has been one of the few reasons other countries have begun to care if you ask me. 

[Danny]

6 minutes ago, Blue said:

Well, to be fair - and I know it's a higher standard in England, but more South Americans get exposure to the world due to playing with their national teams - ultimately when they move to the MLS. The fact I've only heard the names of those English players but not even seen videos says a lot I think.

And I can confirm - no wikipedia pages have been read in the making of these posts. Nor have videos been watched. In fact, the only player of those I've seen was King, and that was a few years back too. I'm not that passionate about winning this debacle. I can tell you've read Wikipedia though because you've just now mentioned those 3 players in the first paragraph - and I have only heard of Ronaldo Vieira. 

Back to the first paragraph though, if you don't play for your national team, then you won't have as many clubs chasing after you. regardless how shit the NT is. Especially when you're South American, where pretty much all the teams are competitive and have some sort of football history. 

You're right I don't know a lot about the Championship, but I don't know a lot about the Nepali league either and I can confirm that the MLS has a higher profile than both. Bielsa has been one of the few reasons other countries have begun to care if you ask me. 

I don't ask you because you've made it clear time and time again that you don't know what you're talking about.

But to sum up your response, it has nothing to do with anything because you're waffling on about something else now.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Danny said:

I don't ask you because you've made it clear time and time again that you don't know what you're talking about.

But to sum up your response, it has nothing to do with anything because you're waffling on about something else now.

I don't watch the championship nor that much MLS, but it doesn't take guessing to know which one has a higher profile.

Populations also come into the matter, actually.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

I don't watch the championship nor that much MLS, but it doesn't take guessing to know which one has a higher profile.

Populations also come into the matter, actually.

So you don’t watch either league that you just “expertly” critiqued? Righto.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Danny said:

So you don’t watch either league that you just “expertly” critiqued? Righto.

I said I don't watch "much" MLS, which doesn't suggest I don't watch it at all. There you go not being able to read properly. Even then I keep up with both enough to know which one has the higher profile.

The Championship I don't know much at all about, I just know it doesn't have as high a profile as the MLS. I keep up with results but that's it.

[Danny]

Just now, Blue said:

I said I don't watch "much" MLS, which doesn't suggest I don't watch it at all. There you go not being able to read properly. Even then I keep up with both enough to know which one has the higher profile.

The Championship I don't know much at all about, I just know it doesn't have as high a profile as the MLS. I keep up with results but that's it.

So you don’t know much at all, essentially nothing but the results about the Championship, yet still claim to know about the sort of league it is, what players exit it and to where....righto.

[Guest]

Just now, Danny said:

So you don’t know much at all, essentially nothing but the results about the Championship, yet still claim to know about the sort of league it is, what players exit it and to where....righto.

I said I wasn't that passionate to even check 

I am basing it off the fact that in my lifetime, I can't remember one key player that was exported from the Championship. I even remember more from league 1 (Dele Alli). Loans to me don't count, where as I do remember some from the MLS. So it's not that I don't know, it's that I used my memory and not fact. And I don't know where you got the idea that I was an expert, I just think you are talking rubbish because the situation isn't even comparable. You don't need to be an expert to know that talent comes with the player and not the league.

[Danny]

3 minutes ago, Blue said:

I said I wasn't that passionate to even check 

I am basing it off the fact that in my lifetime, I can't remember one key player that was exported from the Championship. I even remember more from league 1 (Dele Alli). Loans to me don't count, where as I do remember some from the MLS. So it's not that I don't know, it's that I used my memory and not fact. And I don't know where you got the idea that I was an expert, I just think you are talking rubbish because the situation isn't even comparable. You don't need to be an expert to know that talent comes with the player and not the league.

You’ve just said you don’t know much at all about the league, yet you’ve spent the entire topic telling me, a supporter of a club in the Championship, whether or not young players come through the division and are then picked up by bigger clubs/teams that get promoted. Baffling.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Danny said:

You’ve just said you don’t know much at all about the league, yet you’ve spent the entire topic telling me, a supporter of a club in the Championship, whether or not young players come through the division and are then picked up by bigger clubs/teams that get promoted. Baffling.

And you just spent the last few hours telling me about the great players that have come through the championshup, yet not one of them is a high profile name. 

I think that goes to show that the MLS, a league I also don't follow in much depth, is a higher profile league. I'll be honest and say that I haven't seen one game of Atlanta United this season (which is why I haven't commented on Almiron's ability) yet I know a good chunk of their players. Meanwhile I couldn't name you a single player on Leeds by memory. I'm sure that people who don't follow either league could tell you Atlanta's team and not Leeds other than Bielsa.

So maybe it is baffling to you that I don't know the Championship, but you really haven't put me in my place with your arguments. You have named the entire bournemouth team yeah? Fuck me, Bournemouth. World class side with that Gosling and Jordon Ibe. I'm shocked they aren't competing for a UCL spot, must be underachieving.

Meanwhile Alphonso Davies is looking like Bayern's version of Vinicius Junior...

Again, I don't need to know the championship to know it is of a lower reputation than the MLS.

[Guest]

Let me put it simple: the Championship > MLS in terms of standard, but teams would rather import players from the USA. Most players don't go to the United States for the high quality of football played there, they go there because of brands. As much as I despise the country and their cringe sports culture, it is the worlds super power. Like it or not. This gives the MLS a prestigious name. Everyone knows it's shite, yet people keep watching it. Why? Because it's high profile. That simple. The Championship isn't, and I think the 2 sales of Alphonso Davies and Almiron really speak to how the league has grown. Alphonso Davies might be a bad example because he lived in Canada, so he was always going to start there but just the club he signed for and the fee that they took him speaks for itself. If he was in a smaller league than Bayern wouldn't have gone for him. Almiron was using the MLS as a stepping stone to build himself as a player, because there is no other reason for him to step down from Lanus, in a higher standard league.

[Rick]

Brian, what an utterly pointless argument you've started here.

[Storts]

I actually think Brian is largely correct in what he is saying, just they are both having a separate argument and are both right. Interesting read.

Think Brian is spot on in his analysis of MLS though, it's certainly becoming more a hunting ground for European clubs looking for players that have made moves there at a young age and have performed above the level of the league. Think this will continue as the league grows. The Championship is completely different as it is competitive in its own right, and English football is worlds apart from MLS. Whilst big clubs shop there it's certainly not designed as a stepping stone league like MLS is.

I think on this Brian makes a valuable point.

[Danny]

2 hours ago, Storts said:

I actually think Brian is largely correct in what he is saying, just they are both having a separate argument and are both right. Interesting read.

Think Brian is spot on in his analysis of MLS though, it's certainly becoming more a hunting ground for European clubs looking for players that have made moves there at a young age and have performed above the level of the league. Think this will continue as the league grows. The Championship is completely different as it is competitive in its own right, and English football is worlds apart from MLS. Whilst big clubs shop there it's certainly not designed as a stepping stone league like MLS is.

I think on this Brian makes a valuable point.

It would be an even better point if it was relevant to what I initially posted

[ScoRoss]

Do people watch MLS?

If so why is its television deal significantly less than the EFL's contract?

Less than 1% of Americans watched the MLS final last year.

[Eco]

4 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Do people watch MLS?

If so why is its television deal significantly less than the EFL's contract?

Less than 1% of Americans watched the MLS final last year.

I watch it. 

The reason that only 1% watch it is that it's still new here and not one of the main American sports. NFL, MLB, NBA, and maybe even hockey gets more national attention. For some reason people think soccer is boring but will sit through a 4 hour baseball game. 

[ScoRoss]

8 minutes ago, Eco said:

I watch it. 

The reason that only 1% watch it is that it's still new here and not one of the main American sports. NFL, MLB, NBA, and maybe even hockey gets more national attention. For some reason people think soccer is boring but will sit through a 4 hour baseball game. 

I have no doubt it has its loyal supporters, which are growing. But it's been made out to be a behemoth that dwarfs the EFL in popularity.

 

[Eco]

8 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

I have no doubt it has its loyal supporters, which are growing. But it's been made out to be a behemoth that dwarfs the EFL in popularity.

 

haha well that's funny. 

I'm not a fan of comparing the two leagues, but certainly Atlanta with the talent, attendance, and media hype, are great for the league. Same goes for the Galaxy, LAFC, NYFC, and maybe even the Red Bulls, although I still think they over perform more than any other team. 

For comparison alone, I like to refer to the website, www.transfermarkt.co.uk, which currently has the EFL value as 1.07bn, with the top 3 teams being Stoke (130m), West Brom (100m) and Aston Villa (97m).

The MLS value is listed as 456m, with the top teams being Atlanta United (53m), LAFC (30m), and Columbus Crew (24m)

So, if you look at that, we are no where near the EFL. 

 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

I have no doubt it has its loyal supporters, which are growing. But it's been made out to be a behemoth that dwarfs the EFL in popularity.

 

Well that wasn't the argument.

I said it has a higher profile and more clubs would rather look there. There is an array of different nationalities (I'd hazard a guess and say more than the EFL) which makes people from all over the world want to watch it, not just the USA. This helps it's profile. The USA also has I think 4 times the population of England?

Clubs would rather look there than the second tier of England. If we're just looking at the big picture, the reasons I mentioned above help it rise in profile and it's not just about the people that watch it.

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

Clubs would rather look there than the second tier of England.

Can you back that up?

[Guest]

Just now, Cicero said:

Can you back that up?

I've done that the last 2 pages 

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, Blue said:

I've done that the last 2 pages 

You've brought up two examples. 

How many players have been purchased from the MLS that now play in top tier football vs those that were purchased from the Championship? 

[Guest]

Just now, Cicero said:

You've brought up two examples. 

How many players have been purchased from the MLS that now play in top tier football vs those that were purchased from the Championship? 

I've already adressed this. The MLS is a new league and getting out of that retirement league quota. Alphonso Davies and Almiron is only the start, as the MLS are signing players from around the world, mostly under 22 to make a profit. 

You can't compare it to the championship who have been around since forever and have always acted as the grass roots equivelant to the PL, even if it's technically not a "grass roots" league.

Besides, the examples I've been given are awful and none are of high profile. I don't remember when any of the big clubs outside of England have given 2 fucks about the championship.