FA Cup Final - Arsenal 2-1 Chelsea - Saturday 1st August, 2020

[Azeem]

[carefreeluke]

12 hours ago, Spike said:

I think you missed it entirely, no one is saying Arsenal won because of the decisions, it isn't their fault the officiating is terrible; they just took it in stride like any other club.

Because I'd rather lose 5-0 in a properly officiated match than a scrappy 2-1 loss with the referee ruining the game. It isn't even about the loss at all, It's about consistency, quality, and holding the game to a high standard, which didn't happen today. The FA Cup Final is the biggest match in England and for it to be treated in such a way is criminal. When this game is done and dusted what people should be talking about is the match itself, not what the referee did or didn't do.

You can take the loss in stride if you like, but you should never accept such low level officiating on the highest level of English football, it is embarrassing for you lot because this is broadcasted to everywhere in the world now.

Consistency with officiating is more or unless unachievable though. I've heard the 'we just want to see consistency' argument countless times but there are so many incidents in football that are open to interpretation which makes consistency difficult to achieve especially considering referees have to make decisions in an instant. The standard of officiating has always been the same but the reality is that it's a very difficult job which will only improve with help from VAR or technology and that's also only dependent on if they end up getting VAR  use right. I refereed football for around 2 years, thought it would be a piece of piss as football is a big part of my life, very difficult job for lots of reasons and I believe it's something that players, fans, managers etc should all experience to see what it's like to be in a referee's shoes.

[The Artful Dodger]

7 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

Consistency with officiating is more or unless unachievable though. I've heard the 'we just want to see consistency' argument countless times but there are so many incidents in football that are open to interpretation which makes consistency difficult to achieve especially considering referees have to make decisions in an instant. The standard of officiating has always been the same but the reality is that it's a very difficult job which will only improve with help from VAR or technology and that's also only dependent on if they end up getting VAR  use right. I refereed football for around 2 years, thought it would be a piece of piss as football is a big part of my life, very difficult job for lots of reasons and I believe it's something that players, fans, managers etc should all experience to see what it's like to be in a referee's shoes.

Exactly this. If you want a game where every decision is correct then play FIFA. VAR is not some panacea to solve every debatable decision, it's there to help with certain events at certain times. Now there are things we can tweak, I think not being able to check a sending off because it's a second yellow for instance is silly and easily remedied. But a lot of what people complain about are either perception or so frequent that we would have to stop the game every 2 minutes. 

[RandoEFC+]

It's not about perfect consistency, it's about VAR not only failing to eradicate the absolute howlers which is what it was brought in for, but actually introducing more.

Sometimes they spent several minutes on a marginal decision and it seems like they're thumbing through the rule book to try and find an obscure article they can use as an excuse to support/overturn the on pitch decision. Other times they just seem to ignore clear howlers that never get explained and other times they "can't" review a decision that's clearly wrong and has affected the game such as the ghost goal at Villa vs Sheffield United or Kovacic second yellow yesterday.

Before they brought in VAR you would get 2-3 incidents a season which were absolutely scandalous. Now it seems to happen once every weekend. People have lost faith in the integrity of the competition this season in a way that we've never seen in the past and those people come from across the spectrum, from total technology supporters like me to people like Storts and LFCMadLad who were against it from the start.

I don't care if Arsenal would have won anyway. They could have been 7-0 up when Kovacic was sent off for all I care. The standard of officiating is important because if we just accept this "make it up as we go along" approach then there will be games where it arguably does completely change the result. We've already got Bournemouth taking legal action about that ghost goal against Villa and my personal reaction to it is that you can't blame the outcome of a 38 game season on a single incident that occurred in what wasn't even a game you were involved in, but it's hard to argue that they don't have a case to bring to the table and it's a whole can of worms that's been opened because there has been so many human failures in the implementation of the technology this season.

[The Artful Dodger]

You’ve said it yourself, ‘human failures’, we can’t eradicate them and to be honest I’m not sure it’s entirely desirable. The Sheffield United goal was because the goalline technology didn’t work, clearly VAR should have intervened but it’s the rules which are the issue more than the VAR. VAR has just brought into focus how we need to rethink some of the rules.

[Cicero]

Quote

"We dropped our level a little bit and we were punished.‘Now we have to learn from the game" - Azpilicueta

Broken record. 

Echo what Luke stated. Players need shifting and as unfortunate as Dave's injury is, giving Reece James a solid run at RB will hopefully cement his place. Bin Rudiger and Christensen.  

[carefreeluke]

Kovacic has been committing fouls like yesterday all season, surprised it's taken him this long to get in trouble. Jorginho's the same.

Whilst Kovacic's second challenge wasn't a yellow card, when I first saw it, it was a heart in mouth moment for me and it looked bad and I thought he could be in trouble here. I also originally thought his first challenge might have been a straight red until I saw it back. His very comfortable in possession but he does at times overrun the ball and then goes all out to get it back and for once yesterday it was costly. I'm tired of watching Kovacic and Jorginho commit tackles and challenges like that, they are both very clumsy and erratic when pressing and going for the ball and hopefully that will be the last time we see them playing together. I'd shift Jorginho and keep Kovacic around as a squad player. I see a lot of Chelsea fans on Twitter saying Kovacic's been our player of the season but not a chance for me, he's been better than last season and has had some decent periods this campaign but definitely not worthy of that accolade, not that we're spoilt for choice mind.

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

Kovacic has been committing fouls like yesterday all season, surprised it's taken him this long to get in trouble. Jorginho's the same.

Whilst Kovacic's second challenge wasn't a yellow card, when I first saw it, it was a heart in mouth moment for me and it looked bad and I thought he could be in trouble here. I also originally thought his first challenge might have been a straight red until I saw it back. His very comfortable in possession but he does at times overrun the ball and then goes all out to get it back and for once yesterday it was costly. I'm tired of watching Kovacic and Jorginho commit tackles and challenges like that, they are both very clumsy and erratic when pressing and going for the ball and hopefully that will be the last time we see them playing together. I'd shift Jorginho and keep Kovacic around as a squad player. I see a lot of Chelsea fans on Twitter saying Kovacic's been our player of the season but not a chance for me, he's been better than last season and has had some decent periods this campaign but definitely not worthy of that accolade, not that we're spoilt for choice mind.

Who would it be then if not Kovacic? Mount? He's been good but lets not forget he was very ineffective Dec-March. Kovacic was probably the most consistent performer this season.

The 343 shithousery needs to end. Especially with the recruitment coming in. No midfielder excels in it bar Kante, and it goes to show how unsustainable it is when we win one game then lose the next. 

[Spike]

3 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

Consistency with officiating is more or unless unachievable though. I've heard the 'we just want to see consistency' argument countless times but there are so many incidents in football that are open to interpretation which makes consistency difficult to achieve especially considering referees have to make decisions in an instant. The standard of officiating has always been the same but the reality is that it's a very difficult job which will only improve with help from VAR or technology and that's also only dependent on if they end up getting VAR  use right. I refereed football for around 2 years, thought it would be a piece of piss as football is a big part of my life, very difficult job for lots of reasons and I believe it's something that players, fans, managers etc should all experience to see what it's like to be in a referee's shoes.

I disagree. Every little decision doesn’t need to be looked at but when a player gets studs to his spine during the build up to a goal, VAR should tell the ref that something egregious has occurred, the fact that a billion £ organisation can’t do this right is embarrassing. Rules shouldn’t bloody be open to interpretation, they are rules not a flowery poem; and that is where the sport goes wrong when every Tom, Dick, and Harry thinks there is a difference in the same foul.

[Dan+]

I do think appalling officating needs to be called out but I'm not a fan of when it's being used to deflect from your own shortcomings as a team.

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, Dan said:

I do think appalling officating needs to be called out but I'm not a fan of when it's being used to deflect from your own shortcomings as a team.

I don't think anyone has done that? 

Luke mentioned Arsenal were the better team. 

I stated there's no use getting irritated with the officials given with Pulisic off we were likely not to score again. 

And even Spike already expressed how poor we were but the officiating on display in a high profile game was unacceptable. 

[Dan+]

10 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I don't think anyone has done that? 

Luke mentioned Arsenal were the better team. 

I stated there's no use getting irritated with the officials given with Pulisic off we were likely not to score again. 

And even Spike already expressed how poor we were but the officiating on display in a high profile game was unacceptable. 

I didn't say anyone here had done that. I think just as a general rule. Example this season I think we've been on the end of some appalling officating but at the same time I don't like the idea that our own shortcomings as a team are hidden away because of it. It was as a general rule really.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, shut up said:

the annoying things about chelsea crying about Kovacic red card is that Azpilicueta should have been sent off for denying Aubameyang a goal-scoring opportunity.

Not as Rudiger was covering.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, shut up said:

nope, he was nowhere when aubameyang first spins Azpilicueta and auba has a free run at goal, the only reason he gets back to cover is because Aubayemang is being held back

But at the time the foul was given i.e. in the box, Rudiger is back there 

Unless you'd be happy to take the free-kick (and a red card) when Aubameyang first spins Azpilicueta and then he starts getting held back, then fair enough.

[Spike]

7 minutes ago, shut up said:

the foul starts outside the box though and continues inside, so the ref has every right to give a pen.

fact is, did Azpilicueta deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity? the answer is yes. should have been a red.

Aubameyang wasn't running towards the ball, he was running towards Azpilicueta to win the penalty.

[Spike]

Nope, he was running towards a different direction to the ball.

[Stan]

25 minutes ago, shut up said:

the foul starts outside the box though and continues inside, so the ref has every right to give a pen.

fact is, did Azpilicueta deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity? the answer is yes. should have been a red.

But if you give a foul for inside the box, the referee takes stock of what the state of play is at that time. And at that time, Rudiger could have arguably blocked the opportunity, therefore not a clear goalscoring one.

 

[Spike]

Nope, Aubameyang wasn't close to the ball by the time he hit the turf.

[Azeem]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

I disagree. Every little decision doesn’t need to be looked at but when a player gets studs to his spine during the build up to a goal, VAR should tell the ref that something egregious has occurred, the fact that a billion £ organisation can’t do this right is embarrassing. Rules shouldn’t bloody be open to interpretation, they are rules not a flowery poem; and that is where the sport goes wrong when every Tom, Dick, and Harry thinks there is a difference in the same foul.

Are all the rules clearly stated as black or white under all conditions in the rule book ? I get the impression some rules in football are in the grey areas.

[Spike]

14 minutes ago, shut up said:

Yes, because he'd been ragged about by your dumb defender 

Honestly, why are you even bothering? Arsenal won the FA Cup and you're having a moan about a decision that changed the game towards Arsenal's favour. Even if it wasn't the best decision for the foul, Arsenal still got a penalty and Azpilicueta a yellow card. That is at least something tangible, at least a response. There was no response to Christensen getting studs to the back, I'd take a foul for that even though it was a red card offence. Nothing for Martinez handling the ball outside the box, that is difference between these incidents; whereas one got a decision the others didn't, and you're annoyed? You're annoyed about 'Chelsea crying'? Pull the other one, you've got nothing to be annoyed about.

[Spike]

Not much to say about Christensen getting kicked in the spine though. As I thought.

[Stan]

12 minutes ago, Spike said:

Honestly, why are you even bothering? Arsenal won the FA Cup and you're having a moan about a decision that changed the game towards Arsenal's favour. Even if it wasn't the best decision for the foul, Arsenal still got a penalty and Azpilicueta a yellow card. That is at least something tangible, at least a response. There was no response to Christensen getting studs to the back, I'd take a foul for that even though it was a red card offence. Nothing for Martinez handling the ball outside the box, that is difference between these incidents; whereas one got a decision the others didn't, and you're annoyed? You're annoyed about 'Chelsea crying'? Pull the other one, you've got nothing to be annoyed about.

Yeah it is a bit odd. Win the FA Cup Final. Moan about a decision that went your way anyway  

If there was no free-kick/penalty given then there'd be a proper valid argument to talk about and mention.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, shut up said:

What are you talking about. Christenson makes the challenge on bellerin. What was bellerin supposed to do after that challenge? Levitate? 

I didn't realise that Bellerin was incapable of jumping and that his only response to also commit to a challenge and place his fucking feet onto someone's spine.

[Spike]

13 minutes ago, shut up said:

It wasn't a foul you dweeb. The only decision that went against you was the second yellow. But by that point arsenal were cruising. Chelsea didnt have a shot on target after the 10th minute and you think one bad decision cost you the game. 

It was a foul you moron.

Chelsea didnt have a shot on target after the 10th minute and you think one bad decision cost you the game. 

I never said that you damn fool, if you had actually read the thread, which you didn't you'd know that I congratulated Arsenal on winning and being the better team. But since you are a mouth breather, you went straight to the heart of the matter and started complaining about things that didn't happen, because being English you love a moan and you have to out whinge everyone else by being hard done by. The whole existence of the last few pages is a discussion on the inconsistency of refereeing, not Chelsea losing because of decisions, but you'd know that if you'd had even bothered reading. Why even post on a forum if you can't be arsed reading?

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, shut up said:

That's literally what all the chelsea fans have done in this thread. Youre still crying now. 

I'm buzzing. FA Cup champions. Drink it in. 

Virtually the only competition you can win.