Chelsea Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

I mean have you seen our league lately? It’s outrageously competitive from 5th place and higher.

Last season Chelsea were 5th best playing a much more dour style of football, now you’ve got a new man in trying to build towards a much more attractive style of play. And he’s never managed in England before. Are you seriously expecting him to immediately adapt and compete head to head with City? A side who are ridiculously good and enjoying a period of incredible football and stability?

HE’S NOT EVEN DOING BADLY! Sarri’s adapting pretty well. You look miles better than you did last season imo and a bit of bad luck for us and City and you’re right back in the thick of it. And I think you’ll make top 4, which will make bringing in top targets easier because players always prefer to move to CL teams

It’s not been perfect, but expectations should be tempered to reflect reality. Chelsea weren’t great last season, the top end of the table (which is where Chelsea are, so they’re not failing to meet expectation) is insanely competitive, new manager with a complete opposite style of football to the tactics traditionally employed at Stamford Bridge, and he’s new to the league and  so is the man who’s likely the most important signing of the Sarri era (if it’s to be a real project and he’s not just another quick fix). There needs to be a bed in time, even if Sarri is only in briefly to be a bridge for Chelsea moving to a trend of quick fixes with attacking managers.

I think he’s being asked to do a lot, I’m not surprised there have been some hiccups.

[CaaC (John)+]

Premier League stats: Is Eden Hazard having a deceptively good season for Chelsea?

By Saj Chowdhury

BBC Sport

4 hours ago | Premier League

There had been no goals since the start of October, plus concerns over his fitness and speculation over his future - but remarkably Eden Hazard is arguably having his best season in a Chelsea shirt.

The 27-year-old came into Sunday's match at Brighton having not found the net in nine games, but against the Seagulls he ended that run and fulfilled his 'false nine' role to a T by setting up Pedro for the opener before scoring himself.

The reports will trumpet his goal and assist in the 2-1 win, but maybe they should highlight the fact he has now been involved in more Premier League goals this season (17 in 16 appearances) than he had in the whole of last season (16 in 34 appearances).

The Belgian has also now provided more assists in league competition than any other player in the top five European leagues.

Former Tottenham midfielder Jermaine Jenas said earlier this season that Hazard was not in the same league as Barcelona's Lionel Messi and Juventus' Cristiano Ronaldo.

That was three months ago - should these updated statistics change his opinion?

Well, at the time of writing (in all club competitions):

• Messi has scored 20 goals and provided 12 assists from 19 games
• Ronaldo has 12 goals and seven assists from 21 appearances
• Hazard has scored nine goals and made nine assists from 19 games

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46585898

[Cicero]

He won't ever be as consistent nor have the goal scoring instincts as those two. Those two will go down as the greatest ever so it's redundant to compare anyone to them. 

You can see just how much we rely on him though in our attacking game. It's a shame we lost Mata when we did as he was the only player we've had since Hazard has been a Chelsea player that could match his influence. 

[carefreeluke]

@The Liquidator

Yes, it would be interesting to see minutes per goals / assist stat for Willian with regards to that. Saying you're the third Brazilian to it though isn't really saying much, I can't think of many other attacking Brazilian players that A. have done consistently well in this league and B. that have stayed around long enough to achieve that sort of statistic. Juninho must be close but can't think of anyone else off the top of my head. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

@The Liquidator

Yes, it would be interesting to see minutes per goals / assist stat for Willian with regards to that. Saying you're the third Brazilian to it though isn't really saying much, I can't think of many other attacking Brazilian players that A. have done consistently well in this league and B. that have stayed around long enough to achieve that sort of statistic. Juninho must be close but can't think of anyone else off the top of my head. 

Gilberto Silva? But probably too defensive to come close to that sort of assists stat.

When did Willian join you? I feel like he’s been here longer than Bobby’s been here for us & Coutinho’s not even in the league anymore

[True Blue]

Eden again getting ready for that summer move to Real, i am so bored with that rumor i just can't explain it. Sign or leave make up your mind. The fan boys will go berserk but we will probably buy someone of high caliber to keep them at bay.

Until they start supporting City that is

Edited December 18, 2018 by True Blue

[The Liquidator]

@carefreeluke

In conversation with someone on this subject elsewhere, someone like yourself who gets extremely frustrated with our talented Brazilian, he commented that the goals and assists totals should also have a percentage stat for the amount of times he gives the ball away when in free possession of the ball. Alas, that is his Achilles Heel, but the one thing we can be sure of, our current manager loves him.  Gilberto Silva was in this country for long enough to be close, although his goals scored would have been low.

 

@True Blue

The Hazard situation isnt being helped by the manager choosing to use him through the middle. Eden is on record in stating he does not like playing the position, but knows how to perform the task. For me when the manager chooses to use him this way, he is sacrificing our best player and on Sunday he showed he did not know when to change Eden for the good of the team during a game. Where does this leave Eden? Well he talks about Madrid freely. This is because he does not have an Agent to do all the bullshit with the media. In some ways I respect him for this as its all out there in the open. Chelsea know where he stands and his refusal open contract talks must also point to one ending. I have said before here n elsewhere I would not blame Eden if he decided to move on. I dont believe he owes us anything and has represented us very well during his time with us. 

---------------

Our former manager got his marching orders today. I believe he never wanted to be manager of Manchester United and only did so because of the pain he felt by being moved on by ourselves. The day he signed for them I told my friend @Redcanuck there was not one defender on their staff who would be good enough for Jose. I find it amazing, 3 years on, there still isnt a defender on their books who would be deemed good enough for Jose. I hope he is ok and will enjoy no longer living in a Hotel. I am sure Eden will have one eye on where Jose ends up as Madrid could well be his next destination.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by The Liquidator

[True Blue]

I wouldn't blame him if he left, he should just be clear with the club and the fans. You want out? No problem sell him in the summer, i would wish him well he was a good player for us. If you want to stay as he sometimes claims then sign the contract and move on.

[Cicero]

He and Messi comfortably lead Europe in chances created in the final third this season. Replacing him is going to be some task. Again, I don't think we ever partnered him with someone who was just as influential. Not since Mata. 

With Pedro going on 32 and Willian 31, Odoi still very raw and the likelihood of Hazard leaving increases, we do find ourselves in a bit of a pickle, especially with the transfer ban rumors. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 minutes ago, Cicero said:

He and Messi comfortably lead Europe in chances created in the final third this season. Replacing him is going to be some task. Again, I don't think we ever partnered him with someone who was just as influential. Not since Mata. 

With Pedro going on 32 and Willian 31, Odoi still very raw and the likelihood of Hazard leaving increases, we do find ourselves in a bit of a pickle, especially with the transfer ban rumors. 

Pretty mental you could have had Salah and KDB alongside Hazard, yet instead they’re hugely important to your rivals now.

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Pretty mental you could have had Salah and KDB alongside Hazard, yet instead they’re hugely important to your rivals now.

Costa

Hazard--------------------Salah

KDB----Kante

Jorginho

[True Blue]

Jorginho really stands out in that team 

[The Liquidator]

1 hour ago, True Blue said:

I wouldn't blame him if he left, he should just be clear with the club and the fans. You want out? No problem sell him in the summer, i would wish him well he was a good player for us. If you want to stay as he sometimes claims then sign the contract and move on.

I fully understand and accept your frustration.

[True Blue]

5 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

I fully understand and accept your frustration.

Not quite frustration, the who situation over him is just boring

[carefreeluke]

I remember the summer we signed Hazard from Lille and he was linked with a lot of tops clubs in England and around Europe and that summer he released a video of some sort for fans. The video was something, like 'who will Hazard sign for'?  And it had a list of clubs mentioned teasing everyone. All very embarrassing and shameful but it also lacked a lot of respect for Lille at the time even if maybe they were sure he was definitely on the way out. I always remember thinking at the time that this guy could be a character and cause a bit of trouble but he's been all good really, think he comes across as a very likeable and cool bloke in his interviews etc.

Something I've never thought of but perhaps his flirtation with Real Madrid is a continuation of that summer we signed in from Lille.

[Cicero]

Going to need everyone to pull their weight next month

Jan 2 - Southampton (h)
Jan 5 - Nottingham Forest (h)
Jan 8/9 - Spurs (a)
Jan 12 - Newcastle (h)
Jan 19 - Arsenal (a)
Jan 22/23 - Spurs (h)
*Jan 26/27 - FA Cup R4*
Jan 29 - Bournemouth (

[True Blue]

Decent game last night, we created a lot of chances and this game should have been put to bed at half time. Then again late in the game we did score but the concentration level was low and we could have easily conceded at the dead. Ruben was unplayable in my opinion man of the match, but everyone did well last night. I thought we would get City but it was meant to be Spurs, also i knew there would be 0% chance of us getting Burton.

 

[The Liquidator]

Went to last nights game.

Scrapy Chelsea and a very well set up Bournemouth resulted in a boring evening which was decided on a deflected goal off a Bournemouth defenders hand.

A lot of people today are landing plaudits on Bournemouth for the way they were set up defensively and hit well on the break\counter attack. Truth is they were never really in the game as far as a possible winning team. In fact, they looked to me completely different team to the one who came here in the league a few weeks ago and looked for a large part of the game as thou they believed they were on a par with us. I guess their recent form has taken a huge lump out of their confidence. 

Probably good for us that they were set up in this way as we again started a 2nd string, a 2nd string who knocked the ball about in the manner this manager likes and promptly got nowhere throughout the game. Yes a couple of good opportunities were manufactured, but through a longer ball being played to a forward position.

Talking of forwards, Giroud was terrible last night. There have been games where I have cried out for him to start over Morata and to never see our best player sacrificed through the middle, but last night performance was as poor as any Morata start. I know he has no legs but I would hope he would knit things together better than Morata. The thing is the players who started along with him found it difficult to pass the ball too his feet. He just doesnt have the mobility to move his body to an area for the other players to exploit. Disappointing and its the position that most needs attention in the next window. Who that player should be is beyond me, but there should be someone at the club who has a couple of options penciled in as possibles.

There has been lots of nice words about Reuben Loftus-Cheek over the past few appearances. As ever, I am fully aware how lovely he looks while the ball is at his feet moving towards the oppositions goal. What people who were watching the goal on a stream or tv didnt see was him bent over with his hands on his knees knackerd while his fellow team mates were running back towards our goal trying to defend a Bournemouth counter attack. This happened from around the 70th minute of the game and credit to the manager he was right onto Ruben. It also must be highlighted later in the game Ruben did put a shift in to defend against a counter attack. My opinion of him has not changed, he is still only half a player. Granted the good half shows us a positive attacking threat, he is a waste of space without the ball and until he changes he cant be trusted.

Quick word for Willian who put a good shift in while he was on the pitch and Dave gave a solid display at Right full back. Alas the left back is proving to be no danger to Alonso which is a tremendous shame. I think everyone agrees Alonso needs pressure to be put on him as his defensive displays have not been good enough ever since he has been at the club. Lucky for him the bloke behind him is as bad at defending as himself.

 

 

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

Went to last nights game.

Scrapy Chelsea and a very well set up Bournemouth resulted in a boring evening which was decided on a deflected goal off a Bournemouth defenders hand.

A lot of people today are landing plaudits on Bournemouth for the way they were set up defensively and hit well on the break\counter attack. Truth is they were never really in the game as far as a possible winning team. In fact, they looked to me completely different team to the one who came here in the league a few weeks ago and looked for a large part of the game as thou they believed they were on a par with us. I guess their recent form has taken a huge lump out of their confidence. 

Probably good for us that they were set up in this way as we again started a 2nd string, a 2nd string who knocked the ball about in the manner this manager likes and promptly got nowhere throughout the game. Yes a couple of good opportunities were manufactured, but through a longer ball being played to a forward position.

Talking of forwards, Giroud was terrible last night. There have been games where I have cried out for him to start over Morata and to never see our best player sacrificed through the middle, but last night performance was as poor as any Morata start. I know he has no legs but I would hope he would knit things together better than Morata. The thing is the players who started along with him found it difficult to pass the ball too his feet. He just doesnt have the mobility to move his body to an area for the other players to exploit. Disappointing and its the position that most needs attention in the next window. Who that player should be is beyond me, but there should be someone at the club who has a couple of options penciled in as possibles.

There has been lots of nice words about Reuben Loftus-Cheek over the past few appearances. As ever, I am fully aware how lovely he looks while the ball is at his feet moving towards the oppositions goal. What people who were watching the goal on a stream or tv didnt see was him bent over with his hands on his knees knackerd while his fellow team mates were running back towards our goal trying to defend a Bournemouth counter attack. This happened from around the 70th minute of the game and credit to the manager he was right onto Ruben. It also must be highlighted later in the game Ruben did put a shift in to defend against a counter attack. My opinion of him has not changed, he is still only half a player. Granted the good half shows us a positive attacking threat, he is a waste of space without the ball and until he changes he cant be trusted.

Quick word for Willian who put a good shift in while he was on the pitch and Dave gave a solid display at Right full back. Alas the left back is proving to be no danger to Alonso which is a tremendous shame. I think everyone agrees Alonso needs pressure to be put on him as his defensive displays have not been good enough ever since he has been at the club. Lucky for him the bloke behind him is as bad at defending as himself.

 

 

Great post. Finally I agree with everything you've said. 

 

Emerson needs to go out on loan given he looks almost worst defensively than Alonso, which is saying something. Mendy from Lyon would be my preferred choice as he offers everything you'd want from a fullback. 

[LFCMadLad]

3 hours ago, Cicero said:

Great post. Finally I agree with everything you've said. 

 

Emerson needs to go out on loan given he looks almost worst defensively than Alonso, which is saying something. Mendy from Lyon would be my preferred choice as he offers everything you'd want from a fullback. 

You lot should try buying Robertson from us!

A steady £100m should do it 

[Dr. Gonzo]

33 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

You lot should try buying Robertson from us!

A steady £100m should do it 

Fuck that, I don't want Robbo going anywhere.

They can have Moreno though.

[Cicero]

Wonder if Hazard will have the bollocks to open his mouth about Real now after missing an absolute sitter against Leicester. 

Wouldnt be too worried if we sold him this summer if we had a board that could use the funds properly. 

Too many players who aren't good enough or are getting too comfortable. Was glad Sarri took off Jorginho. He's regressed since Everton. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Cicero

[carefreeluke]

Our presence in the Europa League and ranking in the league table is a clear reflection of the level we are at. This isn't good enough but we need to give Sarri time. I already see fans turning on the manager but the fact of the matter is the three managers above us have had at least two years or more to develop their teams. It's very important the club decision-makers take a look at those around us, back the manager in a similar manner and see what happens.

The Champions League win in 2012 fittingly marked the end of that great generation of players we had. The club in that summer after spent a lot of money on attacking players which were talked about as a change in identity for the club. Di Matteo struggled to make the transition and Benitez came in that season as a stop gap. We then had Mourinho, Mourinho type players were signed, players that didn't suit him left and the same then again happened with Conte. The club backs and definitely works with the managers to get the players they want, players that suit the playing style. Even if particular targets aren't bought, the club definitely works to get the next best alternatives. They work with the manager's philosophy. What the club needs to do now though is take a look around, look at the current climate in football and realize the manager deserves the time and backing to develop this team. This is a call I've made countless times for previous managers in the past but now more than ever it's something that needs to be done. The club is about winning and the short term but I just think the current environment in this league and other factors mean that they have to afford the current manager more time than usual. 

The club spent millions and millions on Conte type players last season. If Conte was still here, there's no doubt in my mind Drinkwater, for example, would still be getting games and not completely out of favor like he is now.  What does the club do? Get rid of Conte the same season. On a substantial level, how does this make sense? And what is more, the club get in a completely different style of manager for the next season. Part of the reason fans at our club turn on managers is the climate of short-termism that Abramovich has ingrained into the club. Transition and development doesn't necessarily have to come at the cost of no trophies as well. Football fans tend to take a black and white view towards it. 

If I was in charge of the club I'd be insisting at least 1-3 of our youngsters were getting embedded properly into the team, the current manager would be given at least two years guaranteed and enough backing in the transfer windows as well. All of this I'd hope would see us be able to finish top four (or at least be in clear contention) and to also have a good runs in the cups. With the hope of at least winning something. This shows how far we've declined in a way. Playing good football, with youngsters in the team is perhaps a utopian time vision for my club but still. The fact that youngsters were playing alone would be enough to satisfy most Chelsea fans, as long as we didn't completely drop out on a competitive level.

Anyway, let's hope the club's decision makers realize the benefits more time could bring.

[carefreeluke]

On 22/12/2018 at 17:13, Cicero said:

Wonder if Hazard will have the bollocks to open his mouth about Real now after missing an absolute sitter against Leicester. 

Wouldnt be too worried if we sold him this summer if we had a board that could use the funds properly. 

Too many players who aren't good enough or are getting too comfortable. Was glad Sarri took off Jorginho. He's regressed since Everton. 

We'd be fucked without him mate really. Plus, there's no way I'd trust the club to spend that money wisely. It was a bad miss but he was unlucky in the fact that if it was a couple of inches lower, he would have scored. It wasn't a question of technique, choice, body positioning or execution. Like we've witnessed all season from some of the other players. Some may say he should have put it to the side but I don't think you can be overly critical. 

[carefreeluke]