Chelsea Discussion

[The Liquidator]

So, wasn’t that fun?

 

I think we can all see clearly now that the manager is out of his depth, his team left the field to boo’s from the faithful, from all sides of the ground. A universal send off? I’d say intelligent Chelsea fans have had enough of this feller.  Anyway I want to share a line taken from a fixture at the after match presso’s. A Chelsea jurno who, like me, feels there are more questions than answers produced so far by our so knowledgeable manager.

 

“Sarriball is truly football as designed by a corporate risk manager (Wasn’t that his job in Banking?). Never over-committing the number of men in an attack. Never attempting to lure the opposition into an error through leaving a gap. Just a constant, swirling morass of pointless passing possession.”

 

Then there was this summing up of last nights game from another Chelsea fixture jurno..

 

"Sarriball goes Horriball. Blunt, ineffective, and pointlessly possession-laden. A soup of indirect slow passing. They're supposed to be getting better at playing this stuff, but the evidence simply doesn't show that. Boos end the evening."

 

How could anyone disagree with those words?

 

Anyway, rather than posting my 3 page post from elsewhere on last night, I will ask again, any Chelsea fan here, what evidence do you offer that the manager has learnt progressed or has the same strain of football intelligence that our previous two managers had in abundance Since the start of his time with us? I am not expecting answers LOL

 

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Pulisic.

Ever so smart player who I would describe if I was being spiteful as a typical Wenger signing. I think he will be more of a benefit off the field in the states for us, especially as our progress over there has slowed of late. We are becoming the squad of didi men.

Edited January 3, 2019 by The Liquidator

[True Blue]

Sky reporting that Bayern has offered over 30 mill pounds for Hudson Odoi, that is him gone then.

[Spike]

It really isn’t that bad. Spoilt malcontents.

[The Artful Dodger]

I thought Sarri was the one to be given time, to build something up over a period rather than win a league and then self-immolate? Or is that just never going to happen at Chelsea now?

[carefreeluke]

I think you have to judge the players' execution of the manager's tactics. In general, from the start to about 60% of the way through the Conte and Mourinho title-winning seasons, the players performed instructions to a very high level. I’m not saying this hasn’t happened with Sarri and I know it’s up to the manager to get the best out of the players but let's not forget that both these managers had Costa firing on all cylinders at least for half a season’s worth. Under Conte until about January that season Costa was playing on an unreal level, best player in the league up until that point. Sarri doesn’t have a striker like that to rely on for at least a significant period. I agree of late (let’s say the last three weeks of so) we’ve been void of any creativity whatsoever but before that we were creating a lot, only to be punished on different occasions by a lack of a killing edge. What difference might a striker performing on Costa’s level had made to our current position in the table? My guess would be we would have seen a significant difference.

[True Blue]

11 minutes ago, Spike said:

It really isn’t that bad. Spoilt malcontents.

Have i said that things are tragic? Or did i say that the performances aren't good? Big difference. I said i am pleased with how things are going so far, we are in a good position still top four and all Cup's there, however the level of football isn't an improvement on Conte. I also stated that i always give a manager a chance, just like Sarri will get his. However even tough Sarri said he will need a few months for us to see the Sarri ball i don't see it. I don't mind drawing or losing, but if we truly give it a go. 

[Cicero]

Realistically, this was always going to be a struggle of a season. Sarri is 6 months in, and his main task is trying to change the whole playing culture of the club. When you look at the players at our disposal and what kind of football they are used to, it is evident this would always be a difficult task. 

If we are going to use a frame of reference, both Guardiola and Klopp's first season in the premier league was similar. 

[carefreeluke]

There’s also been a big criticism of Sarri’s lack of plan B. What were Mourinho’s and Conte’s plan Bs though? The attacking play under both always had the same patterns really. Their saving graces were though the fact that they used to surrender possession in certain games and in certain periods during games. Wait for the counters, lead the opposition into a false sense of security and prey on their mistakes even against teams with a lot less quality. This was their way of mixing it up and in a way, their plan B. Sarri isn’t going to do that. In possession, though the football under both Conte and Mourinho was highly choreographed.

So far this season at times you can question Sarri’s player rotation and selection. Looking at us at the moment, since Spurs at Wembley, Sarri has tightened up the team massively on a tactical level which has been overlooked by many. Both Mourinho and Conte had negative results in big games that sparked changes on a tactical level and in other aspects. I actually see Sarri as more defensive now, Kante’s relationship with Jorginho has improved massively defensively and the team’s positioning and shape have improved in the defensive department as well. Stats aren’t everything but we now have the 2^nd best defensive record in the league. More importantly, though, you can see how we have improved defensively just by watching it. We’ve tightened up a bit but we are now struggling in an attacking sense, the scales in a way have been tipped too much to one side. It’s interesting to see how Sarri talked yesterday after the game in saying how we struggle in the final third. Before it was all about the ‘defensive phase’, he’s still looking for the right balance.

In the attacking third, we are very dry at the moment, to say the least. There’s a lack of intensity, lack of movement and predictable patterns. On the ball, we’re too slow as well and hence are never going to break a team down playing this way. I also think we’ve become a bit safer in certain areas. I don’t think we commit as many players forward as before, players seem more concerned about their positioning and there’s a lot of players that can’t or won’t take risks on the ball, either because of confidence or the fact that they simply aren’t that type of player. The lack of quality we have in certain areas doesn’t help matters but Sarri must take some of the blame and this is the area in which he needs to improve in as the season goes on. The trick is finding the balance between defence and attack and also a lot of this can depend on who we’re playing as well. This is what I’d like to see him get the time to develop and this is what I’ll be judging him on.

As I walking out of Stamford Bridge last night there was a foul mood in the air but Sarri needs time. I’m not saying he’s going to succeed if he’s given that but what’s the point otherwise?

Short terminism is what this club is about and some would even point to the way in which the club conducts itself and then point to the club’s success and say it’s a model more than worth following. This nature of short terminism infests itself in all areas though and as time has passed, it’s helped influence Chelsea fans’ reactions as well. Chelsea are in danger of not getting top four but what if Sarri didn’t? What is the measuring stick people are using? What are the fans using? The board? For some it maybe trophies and results. Some the top four. For some simply the fact that we’re on the right track. Success can also be subjective. Sometimes there’s more to things than what meets the eye and sometimes success masks, hides, and keeps at bay other things.

Edited January 3, 2019 by carefreeluke

[LFCMadLad]

10 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Realistically, this was always going to be a struggle of a season. Sarri is 6 months in, and his main task is trying to change the whole playing culture of the club. When you look at the players at our disposal and what kind of football they are used to, it is evident this would always be a difficult task. 

If we are going to use a frame of reference, both Guardiola and Klopp's first season in the premier league was similar. 

To be fair, when Klopp took over his first game was against Spurs and our first team was:

Mignolet, Clyne, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Can, Lucas, Coutinho, Lallana, Milner, Origi.

Compare that to the teams Sarri and Guardiola took over and it's not really fair to include Klopp. 

[Cicero]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

To be fair, when Klopp took over his first game was against Spurs and our first team was:

Mignolet, Clyne, Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Can, Lucas, Coutinho, Lallana, Milner, Origi.

Compare that to the teams Sarri and Guardiola took over and it's not really fair to include Klopp. 

Fair point. Hence why I think we would transition fully after a season (similar to Guardiola) rather than a few seasons like Klopp. 

[LFCMadLad]

Just now, Cicero said:

Fair point. Hence why I think we would transition fully after a season (similar to Guardiola) rather than a few seasons like Klopp. 

Yeah, I think Chelsea will be much better next season compared to this. 

[Spike]

38 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Have i said that things are tragic? Or did i say that the performances aren't good? Big difference. I said i am pleased with how things are going so far, we are in a good position still top four and all Cup's there, however the level of football isn't an improvement on Conte. I also stated that i always give a manager a chance, just like Sarri will get his. However even tough Sarri said he will need a few months for us to see the Sarri ball i don't see it. I don't mind drawing or losing, but if we truly give it a go. 

I don’t recall mentioning names.

[RandoEFC+]

One of the Everton podcasts I listen to mentioned that Everton currently have just one point less than Spurs did under Pochettino at the same point in his first season, and Klopp finished 8th with Liverpool in his first season. Now look at those two clubs.

Obviously, Everton, Chelsea, Liverpool and Tottenham all have different expectations and the managers involved picked their teams up with different starting points. The point is, if you want to bring someone in to spend £150m and win two trophies in the first season, then sure, you can judge them on it now, but if you've brought someone in as a long term investment to make wholesale changes to not just the team but the club at large, trying to judge them after 20 games is madness.

[The Liquidator]

1 hour ago, carefreeluke said:

There’s also been a big criticism of Sarri’s lack of plan B. What were Mourinho’s and Conte’s plan Bs though? The attacking play under both always had the same patterns really. Their saving graces were though the fact that they used to surrender possession in certain games and in certain periods during games. Wait for the counters, lead the opposition into a false sense of security and prey on their mistakes even against teams with a lot less quality. This was their way of mixing it up and in a way, their plan B. Sarri isn’t going to do that. In possession, though the football under both Conte and Mourinho was highly choreographed.

So far this season at times you can question Sarri’s player rotation and selection. Looking at us at the moment, since Spurs at Wembley, Sarri has tightened up the team massively on a tactical level which has been overlooked by many. Both Mourinho and Conte had negative results in big games that sparked changes on a tactical level and in other aspects. I actually see Sarri as more defensive now, Kante’s relationship with Jorginho has improved massively defensively and the team’s positioning and shape have improved in the defensive department as well. Stats aren’t everything but we now have the 2^nd best defensive record in the league. More importantly, though, you can see how we have improved defensively just by watching it. We’ve tightened up a bit but we are now struggling in an attacking sense, the scales in a way have been tipped too much to one side. It’s interesting to see how Sarri talked yesterday after the game in saying how we struggle in the final third. Before it was all about the ‘defensive phase’, he’s still looking for the right balance.

In the attacking third, we are very dry at the moment, to say the least. There’s a lack of intensity, lack of movement and predictable patterns. On the ball, we’re too slow as well and hence are never going to break a team down playing this way. I also think we’ve become a bit safer in certain areas. I don’t think we commit as many players forward as before, players seem more concerned about their positioning and there’s a lot of players that can’t or won’t take risks on the ball, either because of confidence or the fact that they simply aren’t that type of player. The lack of quality we have in certain areas doesn’t help matters but Sarri must take some of the blame and this is the area in which he needs to improve in as the season goes on. The trick is finding the balance between defence and attack and also a lot of this can depend on who we’re playing as well. This is what I’d like to see him get the time to develop and this is what I’ll be judging him on.

As I walking out of Stamford Bridge last night there was a foul mood in the air but Sarri needs time. I’m not saying he’s going to succeed if he’s given that but what’s the point otherwise?

Short terminism is what this club is about and some would even point to the way in which the club conducts itself and then point to the club’s success and say it’s a model more than worth following. This nature of short terminism infests itself in all areas though and as time has passed, it’s helped influence Chelsea fans’ reactions as well. Chelsea are in danger of not getting top four but what if Sarri didn’t? What is the measuring stick people are using? What are the fans using? The board? For some it maybe trophies and results. Some the top four. For some simply the fact that we’re on the right track. Success can also be subjective. Sometimes there’s more to things than what meets the eye and sometimes success masks, hides, and keeps at bay other things.

Plan B

Sitting watching Jose or Conte's teams over their times in control always filled me with confidence they would have something which would get us a result. I cant say the same for this bloke and even the most dumb of football fans are now picking up this point.

Rotation.
There are some who have already said his failier in rotating enough during the start of the season will come back to bite him. I happen to think him being forced to change the team about would be a good thing, but I also feel he has missed a trick with a player who was bang in form, Barkley, by not playing him when he was hot. Sarri is living up to his billing of being a one trick Pony.

Forwards.
Yes, we are dry. However fault does not lie with just the players playing in the forward positions, or as you point out the standard of player we used to have not being replaced. I believe a bigger problem is the coaches tactics. We must remember, I highlighted the future in preseason for some players and I gave a clear future for the two new players known to be the managers favs. All three have not disappointed my forcast.

Fans.
Its taken time and while we have our fair share of numpties, most Chelsea have a good level of understanding whats good after years of seeing winning football. His future......

Short Terminism.
Oh yes, we have built up a wonderful reputation of not suffering fools. This guy is just that, I have not one ounce of doubt he is out of his depth, but the owner has this desire to be something else. As we have found out this past 24 hours, we have a manager who has no input into the "in n outs" of players. Ideal for Roman and a strong indication Sarri isnt seen to be on the same bargaining level as our previous two managers and if these players are not his players (American obviously isnt his) , we should have no trouble moving him on and allowing someone else to get the best out of them.

Overall.

For me, as I said from his announcement as manager, is the wrong appointment. I have picked apart his teams tactics and terrible pressers from the word go and as someone pointed out most plainly this week, "We are soppose to get better at playing his "named" way football, not worse".  Now opposing managers have adapted to his teams, he is unable to or unwilling to do anything about it.

I appreciate your words in the your last paragraph and I would like to ask you for a yes or no answer to something you listed.

Are we on the right track?

[Cicero]

6 months in and he's already Sarri out. 

 

[The Liquidator]

Morata’s Miss! Haha

I am sure you have worked out out I am not Reuben Loftus-Cheek biggest fan, however, for the first time in his Chelsea career I will highlight him for some good. He was obviously not 100% running into the game, news that was made available by the club. Yet he made himself available, putting the club before himself. That is EVERYTHING I like to see in a player and may I be so cheeky to say, Jose was onto the younger Reuben Loftus-Cheek for the very same thing years ago in Australia. Shame its taken so long, but I will be cutting the boy some slack from now on, as long as we get more evidence of him putting the club before himself.

Anyway, who did our JOKE of a manager bring on? Jesus FUCKING wept. I give up, I truly do. How many games this season has he run to Eden when we cant break a team down who we started a weaker 11 against? It really is laughable.

Talking of our fool. I have to agree with the many Chelsea fans who have highlighted over the last few days why is the manager telling the club to sort out Eden on a decision AND telling the club we need to sort out the CF problem. If he knows nothing about our last 50M signing, its obvious he is here to do as he say he does, improve players on the training pitch and pick the team. Deflecting from his shit public work? I don’t know. But thrilled so many others have seen through him.

Morata’s Miss Haha

Plenty of nice words for our latest new kid from the youth ranks who some are saying came of age in the 2^nd half. I am and always have been a harder taskmaster than the average Chelsea fan and I wont be swinging my cock above my head just yet. I have been watching Callum at Chelsea for many years thanks to CTV and there are a few things I want to share. For as long as I can remember he has been one of the youngsters who have played opposite wing to their strong foot, a Chelsea Cobham trick going back to Sinclair, allowing them to cut inside onto their strong foot and curl to the far corner. Callum does this very well, however, I was truly thrilled to see him produce from the other side, moving outside onto his strong foot and offering a steady supply of chances. Granted his opposition wasn’t the strongest, but I think this was really good to see. Anyway, I also saw his parents at an airport being interviewed after he was a member of the squad that won the World Cup where they striked me as being coupled with Rubens parents, so I am not holding my breath on up coming contract negotiations. I like him. He has always behaved correctly infront of the Chelsea TV cameras, but as we have found with some others, there are those behind these young kids with their own agendas. We shall see, but I was thrilled to read the news on one of our other youngsters who flew the nest.

Liverpool did exactly as I predicted and cashed in on Solanke at the earliest opportunity. All the bullshit they fed him and his family duped them into thinking they would get looked after far better than at the club who had looked after him since a much earlier age. Congratulations to Liverpool and thank you for the very best example to all young players to not listen that the grass would be greener elsewhere. Mr n Mrs Hudson-Odoi please watch n learn. The true biting spin to all this would be if Wilson of Bournemouth ends up at Stamford Bridge during this window.

Morata’s Miss Haha.

Looks like its good bye to Cesc. I have to say when he was at Arsenal he was my fav player in the EPL. He oozed so much class, opening up tight defences with awesome little straight line balls which often gave Arsenal that one golden chance to win a game. I could not believe the day it was announced Jose had signed him. With Costa also on his way, I opened up the Bookmakers account and emptied the balance onto us winning the league. The little Magician did not fail me and his first assist in a Chelsea shirt up at Burnley will be remembered for years to come. An absolute class act around Cobham who was a delight to listen too each time he spoke to the clubs TV channel. Loved by all Chelsea fans, you would never believe he was a Arsenal legend before pulling on our much better shirt. I wish him all the very best for the rest of his career and that the ill feeling the Arsenal fans have towards him helps his after career association become tighter with us than them.

Look, I know I have been highlighting his Left foot all season, but even I could not believe the most recent example of Morata’s swinger. As the feller sitting infront of us said soon after, the boy should buy a lottery ticket because being offside has saved him from being destroyed for good.

Lastly, Cudicini handerling of the after match presser reminded me of his sure hands between the sticks during his time as a player. Most impressive.

[The Liquidator]

Barella ~ Another bloody Midget

God help us

[Cicero]

Aye Kante is bloody awful

[True Blue]

We were excellent against Forest i know people will say it is only Forest but we did really well. One of our best performances with a mixed team. In certain games we show glimps of excellence, especially when we are keen to cross the ball into the box and have a shot on goal outside of the box. Odoi has that killer cross, very fast and direct and very hard for defenders to clear. Hopefully he gets a start tonight, i'd rather start him than Willian in every game. However think Pedro and Hazard would be a good option for the opening half, in the second Odoi's energy could be a decent option.

I'd go with

                                       Kepa                                            

Azpilicueta          Rudiger       Luiz       Emerson

             Barkley            Jorginho      Kante

             Odoi            Morata             Hazard

 

Think we can't field a stronger team at the moment.

[The Liquidator]

I have done 6 hours of conversation\analysis\evaluation elsewhere with others at last nights game and I can pretty much sum up the game in one sentence.

A perfect example of how to set up a side making it as difficult as possible for your own team to score a goal.

What a fucking waste of our best player ~ Picking the ball up deep in our own half

Oh and for the Morons, like the manager who state, "We were the better team on the night" No we wernt, we fucking lost and they won at a canter.

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Funniest shit these past few days. The Manager "CHO is now ready to play from the start in all games"

Nothing to do with him wanting too leave then?

[The Liquidator]

Kids got blown out by Peterborough last night. It was a pure physical thing in the end, but wonderful experience for the boys. After our ultra rare early exit from the Youth cup, this is turning into one of the most bleak youth seasons we have had in a decade.

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Transfer window has been very interesting so far. For a club who refuse to talk to the media on anything to do with transfers until the player is either sold or signed, there seems to be a lot of information on what Maria is doing during this window in the public domain. Sky cant have a hour without a story about one or two of our possible dealings with them quoting multiple sources. Munich are enjoying a pound of our flesh returning what we did to them with Ballack, which can only mean they are confident the players agent is in their camp. While we have taken on the American midget early, something that seems to have been kept under wraps, it's a shame we are now dominating the airwaves with other stories. The fruition of Higuain possible arrival will show us how much faith the owner has in his manager. Seems to me its a deal that goes against everything the club have been trying to do to balance the books. I like the player, dont like his age or the money he will cost us. I guess Sky will tell us before the club do.

[carefreeluke]

Pleasure to have watched this man for my club over the years. All the best at Monaco.

[True Blue]

Our first half was very poor, apart from the well taken goal. Think for the entire half we managed a single shot on target. In the second a much improved side, we scored earlier than usual and had a few more chances to extend the lead. Newcastle's best performance at the Bridge in the recent years and could have easily got a second back but their only threat was Rondon. We moved clear six clear of Arsenal and only a point behind Spurs it was a good weekend for us.

Edited January 14, 2019 by True Blue

[The Liquidator]

Game was garbage which we pretty much come to expect with this manager. There were some boos at the end of the game but not enough for comment from the media. There is no doubt intelligent Chelsea fans have this guy sussed and feel he isnt doing enough to improve the performances. We had two players make the Uefa.com Fans' Team of the Year 2018 and this guy plays neither of them in their correct position. Sarri was asked after the game if he sensed any frustration from the crowd about the football being played: "No. Of course not." Says his mind was on other things.

Needs to wash his ears out.

Anyway, the most important point to make over the last few days was the managers public "Back me or Sack me" plea for the club to listen to him on transfers. First while talking Cesc he said was asked if a replacement would come in? "I have no idea. "The club knows very well my opinion. I need a player there so it depends on the club's decision. "I cannot do any more."

Then, in what may have been revealing of a dressing down by the club to keep his mouth shut on transfers he replied to another press man asking him about transfers he replied.  "You have to contact the club and ask about the market, because if you ask me about the market, you put me in trouble because I don't know how to answer. "

However in the middle of all this he told the press the club should listen to him because he is an important person at the club. I think what he meant was he is the manager and should have some opinion that is listened too.

We can be sure, Higuain is his preferred choice of forward. The word around the ground on Saturday is pretty much what is in the media. The club do not want to sign Higuain. Two reasons, one, his age does not fall into the clubs outlook on signing players and Two, Higuain's reputation of being trouble.

It seems the manager is being given enough Rope to hang himself with the club looking into signing the Argentine. If it is true that the club will take over the loan agreement from Milan that is in place with Juventus, I can understand that, but I have read this morning Juventus will not allow that and want a sale. Typical of Juventus who have us, well all English clubs down as transfer mugs. If buying him is the only way of getting him here, we should turn tail and look elsewhere. We know Higuain is his man so some of us hope he comes and is as clever as Morata adding more weight to the manager being moved on, if that was to come to fruition it would give him some free time to get his ears syringed!

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Fabregas has moved on and I enjoyed watching him play for his new club last night. Interesting to see Henry played him up behind the forwards at first, but as the game past, Cesc moved further back. Funniest thing I have read this past weekend was at a Chelsea board where they had a vote for the best thing Cesc did in a Chelsea shirt? The winner was making Fernandinho a complete and utter mug, when Cesc got him sent off up in Manchester. Sure made me laugh too.

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Callum Hudson-Odoi will leave the club as soon as he is allowed. At least this is what we are being told. So when the crowd burst into song for him to stay, it kinda paints a clear picture of our failings as a club since the early days of Romans money.

With almost all of our players getting plenty of illuminating transfer stories about themselves, isnt it interesting, up to now, not one word on the one guy we are most desperate to keep. Eden

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Lastly, how about that William??

[Cicero]

Jorginho can't even control a ball now which only leaves me to believe he is fatigued. He has regressed since November and the introduction of Paredes will give this holding midfielder spot healthy competition. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Cicero