UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I'm pretty certain I didn't say the papers were left wing. But tv media appear to be left leaning at least

I beg your pardon... Who?

The BBC? That one would be way too easy and I doubt you're that foolish.

Channel 4? Left I don't know, pro-EU yes!

SKY?  Rupert Murdoch!

 

Finally we come to ITV... They lean to the left? Really!?! How? Why? When? Where?

 

What "left-wing" channel is it you're watching for your intake of political analysis mate? Because I can't work it out. Maybe next you'll be telling me Julia Hartley-Brewer on Talk Radio is left-wing!

 

Have a look at this on the newspaper side of things.

http://www.albionmill.org.uk/?p=1476

[Honey Honey]

Presumably your anti-Corbyn rhetoric over the years was the result of digesting the Sun as well?

[SirBalon]

29 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

Presumably your anti-Corbyn rhetoric over the years was the result of digesting the Sun as well?

Is the question directed at me?

[Guest]

17 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I beg your pardon... Who?

The BBC? That one would be way too easy and I doubt you're that foolish.

Channel 4? Left I don't know, pro-EU yes!

SKY?  Rupert Murdoch!

 

Finally we come to ITV... They lean to the left? Really!?! How? Why? When? Where?

 

What "left-wing" channel is it you're watching for your intake of political analysis mate? Because I can't work it out. Maybe next you'll be telling me Julia Hartley-Brewer on Talk Radio is left-wing!

 

Have a look at this on the newspaper side of things.

http://www.albionmill.org.uk/?p=1476aube 

Well most appear to be anti trump pro.eu. Maybe they are more right wing in other ways I don't know

[SirBalon]

3 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Well most appear to be anti trump pro.eu. Maybe they are more right wing in other ways I don't know

What's pro-EU?

WHAT!

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

What's pro-EU?

WHAT!

You know what I mean. You are just trying to turn things I said around. You do it all the time. How about you just ignore what I say and I'll do the same to you.

[RandoEFC+]

It's not hard to spot which media outlets back which party. Go into any shop the day after we get another incident like Rees-Mogg's Grenfell comments and see which papers have it on the front page.

[SirBalon]

42 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

You know what I mean. You are just trying to turn things I said around. You do it all the time. How about you just ignore what I say and I'll do the same to you.

No I do not. Aside from Channel 4. Which media outlet is pro-EU?

I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

No I do not. Aside from Channel 4. Which media outlet is pro-EU?

I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

I'm just going on the impression I have got. I might well be wrong but the impression I've got is the UK news seems to be anti brexit,anti trump etc. Couldn't necessarily name a specific channel as it was an overall impression. Also yahoo seems to be the same and they are quite influential. Like I said might be wrong just the impression. 

[RandoEFC+]

State of us now. If Johnson gets back in then we as a country forfeit any right to laugh at America, Russia or even North Korea again over their leadership and brainwashing.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

State of us now. If Johnson gets back in then we as a country forfeit any right to laugh at America, Russia or even North Korea again over their leadership and brainwashing.

How the foolish victims of all this can continue to state that it’s the middle classes (upwards) and the “establishment” that want to remain as the problem is frankly shocking. Then they don’t want to be called thick!

All of that is just the tip of the iceberg if we go step by step on all the law breaking (prorogation included) throughout this whole sorry business... It’s astounding that there isn’t more of a fuss being made but then again unfortunately for our Gunnasaurus, he requires more proof that it is indeed the press coupled with the media that are helping to suffocate the evident shameful reality.

I am so so lucky to have dual nationality and the more time that passes, the More grateful I am to my late father who instilled certain moral conducts and beliefs that I once thought obsessive and too one tracked.

[SirBalon]

So the right wing newspapers yesterday made their front page dedication to attack what the Labour Party would allegedly spend during the next 5 years in power (1.2 trillion) which is baseless obviously, as UK Labour still haven't released their official manifesto as haven't the Tories. All the same... We do not know how Labour would finance such policies and one can only hope they can prove it all viable so as to help those that were forgotten for so many years of Tory destruction of the British social structure.

Instead of focusing on the Government's scandalous hiding of the Russian Intervention reports on British politics with fraud, corruption, greasing of British politicians and manipulation of the Brexit Referendum.

But the GROOMING by the right-wing in British newspapers inflicted on Brits goes back a long long time, the anti-European sentiment and the protection of the wealthy while using the working classes is as old as printed press. You have to wonder how newspapers (and the media) are used when the original objective was to report news...

 

The front page of the Daily Express in 1945

LIES

Wasn't it awful when Clement Attlee won the 1945 election and created the NHS, created 1000s of jobs, and built a million homes.

 

[RandoEFC+]

If our electorate are stupid enough to allow themselves to be manipulated by the newspapers then they deserve what they get. It happened with Brexit, if it happens again with this extreme and corrupt Conservative government then we can just give up independent journalism and debate and let the country rot in its own shit for a few years before they finally realise they shouldn't believe everything they read.

Too bad people will literally die in extreme cases and 'only' go without education, healthcare and jobs in many other cases.

I found it astounding that I saw a poll the other day about who would you trust more with the NHS. Johnson and Corbyn were both on equally low scores. How enough people in this country have been brain-washed into thinking that Corbyn or indeed any Labour leader can be trusted as little on the NHS as Boris Johnson for that to be the case is terrifying on many levels, but sadly not surprising..

[SirBalon]

22 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

If our electorate are stupid enough to allow themselves to be manipulated by the newspapers then they deserve what they get. It happened with Brexit, if it happens again with this extreme and corrupt Conservative government then we can just give up independent journalism and debate and let the country rot in its own shit for a few years before they finally realise they shouldn't believe everything they read.

Too bad people will literally die in extreme cases and 'only' go without education, healthcare and jobs in many other cases.

I found it astounding that I saw a poll the other day about who would you trust more with the NHS. Johnson and Corbyn were both on equally low scores. How enough people in this country have been brain-washed into thinking that Corbyn or indeed any Labour leader can be trusted as little on the NHS as Boris Johnson for that to be the case is terrifying on many levels, but sadly not surprising..

People hardly even read the articles in newspapers anymore and the newspaper moguls aren't stupid, they know this is the case on a large scale. Which is why they use billboard style front pages as the detail within tends to be baseless rhetoric with no factual foundations as we see just with yesterday's front pages of right-wing newspapers on the supposed £1.2 trillion Labour would spend over five years due to a statement made by Boris Johnson. Like that's "NEWS"!

We cannot forget that within the conditioned retina of the billboard reader, those that take in such basic hard headlines will have all of their other conditioned sentiments and beliefs mixed in.  It's marketing, professional marketing in the understanding of how the mind works. In the same way unnecessary "stuff" is sold as "necessary" and "vital" to the targets, then these are the same methods and they work! Hence why I call them (we are all susceptible on varying levels) victims!

[SirBalon]

Anyway... Back to voting in the General Elections. We are campaigning hard for tactical voting in this one and from a remain point of view which is where I offer Gina Miller's tactical voting website where you enter your postcode and check how you should vote from a remain standpoint as there are 60 marginal seats that can have the Tories ousted. Some of us will HAVE TO lay any political loyalties to bed if you really want the Tory Party out of office and also if you want to remain in the European Union.

New stats released this morning state that just 30% of remainers would have to vote tactically to deliver the amount of MPs to deliver remain ans oust the Conservative Party even if one ends up voting Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, SNP or any of the other varying independent candidates.

VOTE WISELY THIS TIME!

https://getvoting.org/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsdaouO7h5QIVTbDtCh0_qAkSEAAYASAAEgLPTvD_BwE

[MUFC]

General question here. Do you get offended if people ask you who you vote for? As a man asking another man who he votes for, why does he pissed off? Men shouldn't give a toss about these question. Is not like I'm asking a women what her weight or age is.

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, MUFC said:

General question here. Do you get offended if people ask you who you vote for? As a man asking another man who he votes for, why does he pissed off? Men shouldn't give a toss about these question. Is not like I'm asking a women what her weight or age is.

I don't know what the man and woman part has to do with it but I don't mind people asking who I vote for. I can see why people would prefer to keep it private in some circumstances though.

[SirBalon]

 

[Fairy In Boots]

I was going to write back and quote you all and reply back but it got to ten posts and Its a 10 on 1 echo chamber in here so I thought “fuck it can’t be arsed” even when I do post they don’t read it anyway. 

So vote labour you’re not going to win anyway as real people ie the electorate know Corbyn, Swinson & that jingoistic ginger scotch midget are shite and will face the electoral bloodbath they deserve. Especially now kingmaker Farage has fucked you.   

 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 10/11/2019 at 02:03, RandoEFC said:

State of us now. If Johnson gets back in then we as a country forfeit any right to laugh at America, Russia or even North Korea again over their leadership and brainwashing.

That absolutely nothing will come of this just speaks volumes to the state of our "justice" system.

[RandoEFC+]

4 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I was going to write back and quote you all and reply back but it got to ten posts and Its a 10 on 1 echo chamber in here so I thought “fuck it can’t be arsed” even when I do post they don’t read it anyway. 

So vote labour you’re not going to win anyway as real people ie the electorate know Corbyn, Swinson & that jingoistic ginger scotch midget are shite and will face the electoral bloodbath they deserve. Especially now kingmaker Farage has fucked you.   

 

 

 

I could sympathise with your political views at times but what worries me is that you act like one of those people that exist on both sides who cares more about revelling in the other side "losing" than actually having a constructive debate.

I get that it annoys you that nearly everyone on this forum disagrees with your stance on politics and Brexit, but it's not like people are ganging up on you individually.

People like this exist on both sides of the debate. I don't personally believe this but for argument's sake, let's say both sides are as bad as each other. What benefit does it do the country if, whatever happens with Brexit, it ends up with one half(ish) of the population rubbing the other half(ish) of the population's noses in the eventual outcome that they didn't want?

The worst thing about Brexit is how it has divided people. I can't see how anyone wants to encourage that. People on the Remain side generally blame the leading politicians who were found guilty of breaking the law during the referendum campaign and now appear to be covering up a report on Russian interference in that process for their own benefit, for misleading the public. The most prominent Remainers, again generally, go about the debate by posting facts and projections from usually reliable sources about the potential consequences of various versions of Brexit that have looked a possibility in the past few years.

Unfortunately, the most vocal Leave supporters frequently seem more interested in "winning the argument". The quiet majority of you are probably just quietly grumbling that it should have been done by now and their vote hasn't been followed through so they're annoyed, and that's a justifiable position. These people are the ones who probably want to Leave because they genuinely think it's the best thing for the country.

I'm not going to judge you as a person as we've never met, but going off your posts on the topic in this thread, you come across as if you actually enjoy the fact that Brexit is causing a lot of upset for the half of the country that don't actually want to see us come out. It's one thing to want to see what you believe is democracy being carried out but acting as if it's some funny thing to rub in people's faces this result that they have good reason to believe is potentially going to make their lives and the lives of their children and grandchildren significantly worse than it would be otherwise, doesn't make it come across as if you're trying to argue what's best for the country.

For the sake of seeing things from both sides, which I always try to do, I'd love to be able to say that there are a significant amount of Remainers that I've come across who have the same vindictive attitude towards people who voted the opposite way, but that's simply not the case. There are some who will wrongly call Brexit voters idiots but I don't think I've met many or any who would actively go to their Leave voting mates and rub it in their faces that they "lost". People who don't want Brexit only desire the relief of it being cancelled, not to revel in the despair of the Leavers who would be disappointed with that happening.

Throw in as many "most"s and "generally"s there as you like, the most important thing here is that I'm not stereotyping any groups of people, there are plenty of shades of grey on each side but that's my honest take on things.

[RandoEFC+]

So Farage has stepped down his Brexit candidates giving the Conservatives a free run at the seats they are defending. They will probably still lose some of those seats but it also seems likely that Labour could lose marginals to either the Tories or Brexit Party. Equally possible those parties could split the Leave vote in Labour Leave seats and end up saving Labour in those seats.

Really hard to call but the polls still show a lead for the Conservatives. It's hard to see anything other than Boris remaining PM. A majority still looks hard from his point of view, a small cluster of Brexit Party MPs could give him enough votes to get Brexit over the line without creating a formal coalition.

Labour have been suffering from cyber attacks over the past two days. My first thought given recent news was of Russia and apparently a Labour spokesperson or someone said the attacks were coming from Russia and Brazil, but nothing official from the National Cybersecurity people, whatever their proper name is.

I think Conservatives will stumble to a slim majority or almost majority. The only real game changer you could see is a massive u-turn from Labour and or Lib Dems and some cooperation between them but it's hard to imagine.

A shame that the "Corbyn doesn't want to nuke 10 million people so he's not fit to be prime minister" argument has returned to the fore over the past day or two. Nothing worse than being reminded of the insane priorities of our media and public.

[SirBalon]

49 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

So Farage has stepped down his Brexit candidates giving the Conservatives a free run at the seats they are defending. They will probably still lose some of those seats but it also seems likely that Labour could lose marginals to either the Tories or Brexit Party. Equally possible those parties could split the Leave vote in Labour Leave seats and end up saving Labour in those seats.

Really hard to call but the polls still show a lead for the Conservatives. It's hard to see anything other than Boris remaining PM. A majority still looks hard from his point of view, a small cluster of Brexit Party MPs could give him enough votes to get Brexit over the line without creating a formal coalition.

Labour have been suffering from cyber attacks over the past two days. My first thought given recent news was of Russia and apparently a Labour spokesperson or someone said the attacks were coming from Russia and Brazil, but nothing official from the National Cybersecurity people, whatever their proper name is.

I think Conservatives will stumble to a slim majority or almost majority. The only real game changer you could see is a massive u-turn from Labour and or Lib Dems and some cooperation between them but it's hard to imagine.

A shame that the "Corbyn doesn't want to nuke 10 million people so he's not fit to be prime minister" argument has returned to the fore over the past day or two. Nothing worse than being reminded of the insane priorities of our media and public.

Right now both Labour and the Lib Dems are being stubborn and continue to attack each other more than show any sort of collaboration in any way, shape or form. The Lib Dems have managed to come to agreements with various other parties like the SNP in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales where on either of the sides certain candidates have stood down so as to oave a more certain route to winning seats.

This takes me back to the talks both the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats had months back when organising an interim PM for a vote of no confidence in an attempt to take control of proceedings in the HoC, especially after the illegal prorogation enforced upon a sovereign government by Boris Johnson. It came to no avail and apparently it became a series of bitter debates... All of this leads me to believe that Jeremy Corbyn along with those unnamed above him have their own agenda which they blindly believe in and THIS is the reason for the current situation regarding the atmosphere and situation we currently have regarding these two parties.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Farage: I was joking when I promised a Brexit manifesto.

Or more accurately, any time he's telling a promise, he's really just lying to the public. The people in his party are absolute mugs.

[SirBalon]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Farage: I was joking when I promised a Brexit manifesto.

Or more accurately, any time he's telling a promise, he's really just lying to the public. The people in his party are absolute mugs.

Some of them are intending to stand all the same as Brexit independents and screaming blue murder on having been robbed of differing amounts of money they've invested in the whole fantastical story. I can't believe they've gone public though as it shows they have no integrity and that it's all proof that Brexit is a bullshit story all about a certain few that stand to cream it in.