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Let's just take a moment to appreciate how mad Weird World must have been when we voted to leave The European Union once he remembered a reason Scottish people voted against independence was because of the EU trade deals. He would take that as England personally fucking with him.

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3 hours ago, Aaroncpfc said:

Let's just take a moment to appreciate how mad Weird World must have been when we voted to leave The European Union once he remembered a reason Scottish people voted against independence was because of the EU trade deals. He would take that as England personally fucking with him.

Quite rightly, too. The country is in an existential crisis at the moment, Scotland won't want dragging along with this and good luck to them, I hope they thrive outside of the United Kingdom. Unfortunately those of stranded in urban areas that have similar political inclinations have no such fortune and will be dragged into this Tory abyss.

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3 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Quite rightly, too. The country is in an existential crisis at the moment, Scotland won't want dragging along with this and good luck to them, I hope they thrive outside of the United Kingdom. Unfortunately those of stranded in urban areas that have similar political inclinations have no such fortune and will be dragged into this Tory abyss.

Whilst we're going through an inevitable period of uncertainty at the moment I wouldn't say there's any need to feel that disheartened at present.

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26 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

If it is true that the SNP are not going to take Scotland back into the EU then this referendum is entirely about Celtic racialism and the mask will have slipped.

If independent, wouldn't Scotland be better in a Norway's EFTA style type of deal managing fishery and oil rather than as EU member?

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All this surprise I'm listening too everywhere over the past two days as to Sturgeon's stance is hilarious.  I had to rip into a friend of mine too!

She is the leader of the SNP for god's sake! xD  She's doing her job!

2 minutes ago, Kowabunga said:

If independent, wouldn't Scotland be better in a Norway's EFTA style type of deal managing fishery and oil rather than as EU member?

If Scotland go independent they'll be ripped into by Europe and used as an example tool for all those splinter regions elsewhere in Europe that are thinking the same thing.  Too much power lies in other bigger ponds.

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1 minute ago, Fairy In Boots said:

IMG_1791.JPG

Pretty much sums it up, outside the UK Scotland can thrive in the EU 😂😂😂

Mate I don't get it...  She's doing EXACTLY the same thing Farage was working towards for years.  She's working for what she sees as her people's wishes...  The people that voted for her.  Why else would you vote for a nationalist party which in essence is what UKIP were when he done all of his work.

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55 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Mate I don't get it...  She's doing EXACTLY the same thing Farage was working towards for years.  She's working for what she sees as her people's wishes...  The people that voted for her.  Why else would you vote for a nationalist party which in essence is what UKIP were when he done all of his work.

Yeah, but her rhetoric isn't as bigoted so it's an insult to British values. :ph34r:

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36 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Mate I don't get it...  She's doing EXACTLY the same thing Farage was working towards for years.  She's working for what she sees as her people's wishes...  The people that voted for her.  Why else would you vote for a nationalist party which in essence is what UKIP were when he done all of his work.

Scotland is a massively different set of circumstances compared to the UK's membership of the Eu.

I personally don't give a fuck let them go, i'll happily watch 5million people commit financial suicide based off no more than "the bastards killed braveheart".

If you can show me economic reasons that the Scots can have a better standard of living than the one they currently enjoy as part of the Union then i'll happily retract that statement. As is we lose perhaps an area the size of Yorkshire in terms of value to the UK and they suddenly have to deliver a fully functioning Military, Health Service, Education System almost overnight that they're already running at a heavy deficit for or don't have at all (army).  C'mon how long do you think they can keep us free university fees? I'm sure you've rubbished Catalonian independence before no?

Also don't mention oil, it's not as big as it was, difficult to get to in the North Sea and the reserves aren't great, it's also incredibly volatile as a resource and no sane person would based their entire economy on it.  They have an aging population which costs more and EU membership won't come easy.

16 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Yeah, but her rhetoric isn't as bigoted so it's an insult to British values. :ph34r:

Awe sugarpuff.  Maybe you should do a bit of research, it don't come much more decisive than the Scotish referendum, the SNP's thugs will be out again no doubt. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Scotland is a massively different set of circumstances compared to the UK's membership of the Eu.

I personally don't give a fuck let them go, i'll happily watch 5million people commit financial suicide based off no more than "the bastards killed braveheart".

If you can show me economic reasons that the Scots can have a better standard of living than the one they currently enjoy as part of the Union then i'll happily retract that statement. As is we lose perhaps an area the size of Yorkshire in terms of value to the UK and they suddenly have to deliver a fully functioning Military, Health Service, Education System almost overnight that they're already running at a heavy deficit for or don't have at all (army).  C'mon how long do you think they can keep us free university fees? I'm sure you've rubbished Catalonian independence before no?

Also don't mention oil, it's not as big as it was, difficult to get to in the North Sea and the reserves aren't great, it's also incredibly volatile as a resource and no sane person would based their entire economy on it.  They have an aging population which costs more and EU membership won't come easy.

Awe sugarpuff.  Maybe you should do a bit of research, it don't come much more decisive than the Scotish referendum, the SNP's thugs will be out again no doubt. 

 

I never said I agreed with it although at the same time it doesn't concern me as it's an issue for the Scottish people. Infact I don't agree with it and from a personal standpoint it would be sad, but that's personal and I'm only voicing it because you have assumed I am for some strange reason pro-Scottish Independence.

What I am in favour of is that for a set of people to decide their own future and that also includes the Catalans, Basques and Galicians if they so wish. In saying this, they're not actually countries where as Scotland actually is.

But to cut it all short... All I was saying is that I don't understand the jibes being thrown at Sturgeon when all she's doing is complying with her ideology and the political standpoint she believes in and was voted in for. She hasn't betrayed anyone and neither did Farage. 

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25 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

I never said I agreed with it although at the same time it doesn't concern me as it's an issue for the Scottish people. Infact I don't agree with it and from a personal standpoint it would be sad, but that's personal and I'm only voicing it because you have assumed I am for some strange reason pro-Scottish Independence.

What I am in favour of is that for a set of people to decide their own future and that also includes the Catalans, Basques and Galicians if they so wish. In saying this, they're not actually countries where as Scotland actually is.

But to cut it all short... All I was saying is that I don't understand the jibes being thrown at Sturgeon when all she's doing is complying with her ideology and the political standpoint she believes in and was voted in for. She hasn't betrayed anyone and neither did Farage. 

She's flip flopped over the EU already, her justification for another referendum was the EU. Now the EU doesn't have to be the "only thing" after initial reaction, it's been two years it costs an awful lot of money. If they want to make cuts and pay for it out their own budget then fine, i have no problem with them having a vote, but as a member of the UK i'm tired of funding her vanity project.

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8 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

She's flip flopped over the EU already, her justification for another referendum was the EU. Now the EU doesn't have to be the "only thing" after initial reaction, it's been two years it costs an awful lot of money. If they want to make cuts and pay for it out their own budget then fine, i have no problem with them having a vote, but as a member of the UK i'm tired of funding her vanity project.

I agree, she's used the EU issue as the reason to call the referendum. But in fairness Scotland voted to stay and under her ideological standpoint she's seen it as a nation's vote that has gone unheared at Westminster. 

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A mate I have on Facebook (obviously a Scott) wrote this a few days back...

 

The entire Westminster establishment is all too happy to lie to Scotland just as it's lied to the people of England for so long, the English genuinely believe they subsidise this wonderful payment free life we enjoy here because that's EXACTLY what they've been told for generations. Since the birth of the Union Scotland has been a cash cow for England and they have lived really quite well off the milk of that cow, not all of England of course just the ruling classes and those fortunate enough to live in the South East and other Tory heartlands. The rest of England i.e everything north of Watford has been told that they can't have the same fabulous life as London etc because the government just can't afford it ... so those people see themselves being forced to pay for prescriptions and student tuition fees while us "subsidised Scots" don't .... hell if it was me I'd be pissed off to .... but these people aren't being told the real truth, they are being lied to just as we are about how poor and helpless Scotland is when the whole time Westminster KNOWS the truth and they know what will happen if and when that truth gets out and the English people see what they've done to them, not because Scotland was having all the extra cash in subsidies but because they have been creaming off the top for decades, making themselves richer and more powerful without a single shit being given about anyone else. That is what they fear most, their lie being exposed and their greed being laid out for all to see because that's when the pitchforks really will come out and a proper French style revolution will take place ..... THAT my friends is why Westminster and it's cohorts and other allies will do and say absolutely ANYTHING to maintain the status quo ..... because their very existence depends on it.

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Just a lot of noise.

The UK is in a debt trap. UK finances are awful, Scotland's finances are awful, the current lifestyle of the entire island is being subsidised by unborn generations productivity via the Bank of England and private bondholders. 

The affordability of free prescriptions is absolutely nothing in comparison to the pensions crisis coming.

The arguments about being able to afford free tuition and other perks or not are just noise. Totally irrelevant to the question of independence which is solely a matter of where power lies.

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6 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Just a lot of noise.

The UK is in a debt trap. UK finances are awful, Scotland's finances are awful, the current lifestyle of the entire island is being subsidised by unborn generations productivity via the Bank of England and private bondholders. 

The affordability of free prescriptions is absolutely nothing in comparison to the pensions crisis coming.

The arguments about being able to afford free tuition and other perks or not are just noise. Totally irrelevant to the question of independence which is solely a matter of where power lies.

Pensions will go within 15 years. They have to there's no other choice in reality. 

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2 hours ago, Batard said:

It's Britain which has the least happy children in the developed world, the highest infant mortality rate in Western Europe and some of the worst child poverty in the industrialised world. It's British elderly people who are the fourth poorest pensioners in the EU. It's Britain which has the eighth biggest gender pay gap in Europe and child care costs much higher than most European countries.

I've taken that excerpt out because I've seen things in London (of all places, so imagine other parts of England) that verify this and I'm not even talking about underpaid migrants with children.  I'm talking about white English people...  The stats on mortality are also shocking.

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What is rarely ever mentioned about free tuition is that this is predominately used by the middle class. So whilst banging on about the plight of the poor actual resources are being allocated to the middle class kids.

Get this... just recently the SNP scrapped maintenance grants for kids from poor backgrounds who go to university. I went to a Scottish university and got a letter through my door from them last year begging me to make a donation to help them provide money for poor kids.  

Free education or free prescriptions are not a virtue, they should be open to the scrutiny of resource allocation. Nothing is truly free. The way student loans work in England is that the individual who benefits from the education pays for it themselves through a slightly higher tax on their future productivity as they earn. No one is denied education because they can't afford tuition. The government acts as their guarantor on the debt market and use HMRC to recollect the loan. The stupidity of English tuition fees is issuing debt that won't be repaid because they are too high which means other tax payers will be chipping in to wipe the debt off in the future.

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11 hours ago, Panflute said:

Good for Britain to free itself from the EU.

A Nexit is quite far away after our latest elections. Something has to happen in the next decade, otherwise Holland can considered to be non-existent and it'll be time to move on.

I know there are issues that come up in particular places, but is this situation really that bad?  The media would have you think that the apocalypse is taking place. 

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