Spike 5,105 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Is Hercules a politicised movie because the cartoon is based on the Greek mythos but uses the Latin name!? He should be named Heracles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goku de la Boca 121 Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I can't believe you've made me explain plots and character development of fuckin' cartoon characters mate. Take it easy this is a fun debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,196 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, Spike said: Is Hercules a politicised movie because the cartoon is based on the Greek mythos but uses the Latin name!? He should be named Heracles. I don't like the political messaging of Danny DeVito being cast for anything other than Frank Reynolds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goku de la Boca 121 Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 Just now, Spike said: Is Hercules a politicised movie because the cartoon is based on the Greek mythos but uses the Latin name!? He should be named Heracles. I think that’s just because important world figures like kings and gods have their names translated, something I also find ridiculously stupid. I’m gonna call the queen by her name “Elizabeth”. Not “Isabel” ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,105 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 17 minutes ago, Goku de la Boca said: I think that’s just because important world figures like kings and gods have their names translated, something I also find ridiculously stupid. I’m gonna call the queen by her name “Elizabeth”. Not “Isabel” ffs. It isn’t a translation. The Roman myths and the Greek myths have divergences. I was also being facetious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,105 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 20 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I don't like the political messaging of Danny DeVito being cast for anything other than Frank Reynolds. Throw Mamma from the Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Whole purpose of Disney to begin with was to free imagination. Could you imagine if Disney made Hercules looking like an Eastern European psychopath murdering his family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,196 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 28 minutes ago, Goku de la Boca said: I expressed myself wrong. She was as you said, but they skip everything else in the remake. As for the little mermaid, there is a mention of her race. She’s a white mermaid, unless I am colourblind mate. I’m pretty sure she was white. And believe me movies that whitewash are just as bad as the other side, but it’s much less common with the big hitters at least. I just asked ChatGPT which says that in the original Little Mermaid, there is no mention of her race. She's a white mermaid in the Disney films. The Disney films aren't the original story and the ending is much weirder in the original. It's a fucking mermaid, who gives a shit what race they cast the person as in the live action film? When they do shows on the West End/Broadway/whatever Canada or Peru's equivalent of those is and they cast "traditional' white characters with a black character, is that "reverse-whitewashing" or is that just casting whoever does a good job in the audition without regard for their race? I can understand more with historical fiction casting people that are plainly not looking anything like the person they're trying to portray. But fictional characters? Honestly, who gives a shit what colour the actors are. Ariel's not real, she's a mermaid and mermaids aren't real either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goku de la Boca 121 Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I just asked ChatGPT which says that in the original Little Mermaid, there is no mention of her race. She's a white mermaid in the Disney films. The Disney films aren't the original story and the ending is much weirder in the original. It's a fucking mermaid, who gives a shit what race they cast the person as in the live action film? When they do shows on the West End/Broadway/whatever Canada or Peru's equivalent of those is and they cast "traditional' white characters with a black character, is that "reverse-whitewashing" or is that just casting whoever does a good job in the audition without regard for their race? I can understand more with historical fiction casting people that are plainly not looking anything like the person they're trying to portray. But fictional characters? Honestly, who gives a shit what colour the actors are. Ariel's not real, she's a mermaid and mermaids aren't real either. Maybe it doesn’t bother you but it is a factor that is causing Disney to lose millions of dollars. Fine, change the color of a character or a protagonist, but clearly the way they are going about it isn’t working. Not everyone who chooses to not see the film is automatically a racist. That’s an easy cop out and generalization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,196 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, Goku de la Boca said: Maybe it doesn’t bother you but it is a factor that is causing Disney to lose millions of dollars. Fine, change the color of a character or a protagonist, but clearly the way they are going about it isn’t working. Not everyone who chooses to not see the film is automatically a racist. That’s an easy cop out and generalization. The Walt Disney Company reported a net income of 2.35 billion U.S. dollars in the fiscal year of 2023. The company’s revenues for the quarter and year grew 5% and 7% compared to the prior-year quarter and prior year, respectively. The diluted earnings per share decreased over 2023, but that's mostly because their latest Marvel films have been dogshit and they have very little original content. It's got fuck all to do with weirdos being pissed off a mermaid in a live action film is black. Long term, Disney will be fine and if you buy Disney stock now it'll probably be a very solid investment. And like I said, I didn't say if you didn't see the film you're a racist. I didn't see the film. So one more time: If you care about the skin colour of a mermaid in a live action remake of a cartoon because of "the political message" you're probably a racist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,105 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, Goku de la Boca said: Maybe it doesn’t bother you but it is a factor that is causing Disney to lose millions of dollars. Fine, change the color of a character or a protagonist, but clearly the way they are going about it isn’t working. Not everyone who chooses to not see the film is automatically a racist. That’s an easy cop out and generalization. Who gives a fuck if they lose money because they sure as hell aren't. They literally own everything, it's a massive conglomerate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Goku de la Boca said: Maybe it doesn’t bother you but it is a factor that is causing Disney to lose millions of dollars. Fine, change the color of a character or a protagonist, but clearly the way they are going about it isn’t working. Not everyone who chooses to not see the film is automatically a racist. That’s an easy cop out and generalization. Disney is losing millions because their films are shit. Look at Marvel's most recent release, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. High budget film using a recycled plot. No one went to see that. Indiana Jones, Ant-Man, the Little Mermaid, and Secret Invasion all did poorly on release. She-Hulk had a quarter of a billion operating budget. Who the fuck even watches that? Think I read Disney hasn't had a positive operating income on theatrical/streaming releases since early 2022. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,105 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 @Goku de la Bocayou literally care more about the economics of Disney and it's supposed politicising of content than people losing rights in Argentina, and they are that isn't even really up for debate. Really reflect on that, mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,196 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Cicero said: Disney is losing millions because their films are shit. Look at Marvel's most recent release, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. High budget film using a recycled plot. No one went to see that. Indiana Jones, Ant-Man, the Little Mermaid, and Secret Invasion all did poorly on release. She-Hulk had a quarter of a billion operating budget. Who the fuck even watches that? Think I read Disney hasn't had a positive operating income on theatrical/streaming releases since early 2022. Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom's DC, so I think that's WB actually. But yeah, they're struggling to make as much money as they could be making because they're being very lazy with creating content. Nobody wants to see these live action remakes of classics. People are tired of Marvel movies, especially when the plots seem to get worse and worse. Who asked for a new Indiana Jones film considering how shit the one before the latest one was? People want new and interesting things to watch for entertainment. For a company losing millions... a net income of over $2b is not doing too badly (gross revenue was over $88b). Will it make shareholders angry because they could have had more? Yes probably. But it's also an increase over 2022, so shareholders would be happy about that. Disney will be fine, they're not "going broke because they went woke" - they're not making as many millions as they could be making because they're not putting out as high quality content as they were in previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom's DC, so I think that's WB actually. But yeah, they're struggling to make as much money as they could be making because they're being very lazy with creating content. Nobody wants to see these live action remakes of classics. People are tired of Marvel movies, especially when the plots seem to get worse and worse. Who asked for a new Indiana Jones film considering how shit the one before the latest one was? People want new and interesting things to watch for entertainment. For a company losing millions... a net income of over $2b is not doing too badly (gross revenue was over $88b). Will it make shareholders angry because they could have had more? Yes probably. But it's also an increase over 2022, so shareholders would be happy about that. Disney will be fine, they're not "going broke because they went woke" - they're not making as many millions as they could be making because they're not putting out as high quality content as they were in previous years. Ah that's right. These superhero films are being regurgitated every other week its hard to keep track. Disney I reckon will benefit in the long run with having Iger back. He's already said Disney has focused far too much on 'messaging', and the quantity of content vs the actual quality of it. This Snow White film however isn't going to help them. Apparently they are already on an apology tour. Edited January 4 by Cicero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,196 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Cicero said: Ah that's right. These superhero films are being regurgitated every other week its hard to keep track. Disney I reckon will benefit in the long run with having Iger back. He's already said Disney has focused far too much on 'messaging', and the quantity of content vs the actual quality of it. This Snow White film however isn't going to help them. Apparently they are already on an apology tour. Lol what have they done with Snow White? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,670 Posted January 4 Subscriber Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, Goku de la Boca said: . "If you don't like those films", a lot of people don't like those films and that's leading Disney to lose a lot of money. Are you a shareholder? If not then I don't see what impact it has on your life to be moaning about films they're making when you can just choose not to watch the ones you don't like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,105 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Lol what have they done with Snow White? Walt banged her back in 32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,406 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I don't think wanting characters to resemble a similar appearance to what you remember from your childhood makes you a racist. I'm not bothered by Haile Bailey playing The Little Mermaid for example but I thought the decision to not have short people play the seven dwarfs in the upcoming Snow White film is wrong and I do feel sorry for short people who aspired to play one of those roles. As for the new Star Wars director, I think Nudge has eloquently explained why she's been entrusted with that role and she's been given an opportunity on merit as opposed to any other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Lol what have they done with Snow White? The whole backlash from their removal of the 7 dwarves because apparently "dwarves is seen as offensive" and they casted regular sized people instead. There's also Rachel Ziegler's weird comments bashing the original to which Disney forced her to make a public apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,196 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said: I don't think wanting characters to resemble a similar appearance to what you remember from your childhood makes you a racist. Ok that's fair. But if you got seriously wound up by Disney casting a black woman as a mermaid, I think you're more likely to be a racist than not a racist. At the end of the day it's a Disney film, I don't think it's worth anyone thinking about for more than a couple of minutes. Getting legitimately pissed off about it is weird to the point where I assume there's some sort of bigotry. And I do think it's a bit weird they've decided to not hire dwarf (apologies if that's not politically correct, but I don't know what the right term is) actors for a live action Snow White, actually. Unlike recasting a cartoon character to a minority race that's been historically disadvantaged in the US and in the west generally... this is Disney taking jobs away from seven actors who have been historically disadvantaged everywhere & there aren't that many roles for them. Honestly though I've not seen any of the live action Disney remakes and I don't have much interest in seeing them, mostly because I want to preserve my childhood memories of the cartoon films. But I don't remember the outrage over Jasmine from Aladin being played by a non-Middle Eastern actress, and as someone of Middle Eastern descent I also wouldn't be outraged by that either. I genuinely don't care about the race of an actor in a work of fiction. It's like people getting worked up about Edris Ilba being James Bond because he's black. "It's not realistic, James Bond is a WW2 veteran... he wouldn't be black." Yeah and casting Daniel Craig as a WW2 veteran in the 2020s is also not realistic. It's a fictional character in films that are pretty far removed from the original source material. As long as James Bond is still cool and has a UK accent, I don't think it's worth worrying about what race the actor playing him is. Casting an American to play James Bond though and I probably would be pissed off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,196 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, Cicero said: The whole backlash from their removal of the 7 dwarves because apparently "dwarves is seen as offensive" and they casted regular sized people instead. There's also Rachel Ziegler's weird comments bashing the original to which Disney forced her to make a public apology. Just the concept of dwarves was seen as offensive? Fuck me, that's worse than just renaming the film "Snow White & Some Midgets" I thought it'd be some kind of weird cruelty towards very very short people, like what Steven Hawking was up to when he was palling around with Epstein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,406 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Ok that's fair. But if you got seriously wound up by Disney casting a black woman as a mermaid, I think you're more likely to be a racist than not a racist. At the end of the day it's a Disney film, I don't think it's worth anyone thinking about for more than a couple of minutes. Getting legitimately pissed off about it is weird to the point where I assume there's some sort of bigotry. And I do think it's a bit weird they've decided to not hire dwarf (apologies if that's not politically correct, but I don't know what the right term is) actors for a live action Snow White, actually. Unlike recasting a cartoon character to a minority race that's been historically disadvantaged in the US and in the west generally... this is Disney taking jobs away from seven actors who have been historically disadvantaged everywhere & there aren't that many roles for them. Honestly though I've not seen any of the live action Disney remakes and I don't have much interest in seeing them, mostly because I want to preserve my childhood memories of the cartoon films. But I don't remember the outrage over Jasmine from Aladin being played by a non-Middle Eastern actress, and as someone of Middle Eastern descent I also wouldn't be outraged by that either. I genuinely don't care about the race of an actor in a work of fiction. It's like people getting worked up about Edris Ilba being James Bond because he's black. "It's not realistic, James Bond is a WW2 veteran... he wouldn't be black." Yeah and casting Daniel Craig as a WW2 veteran in the 2020s is also not realistic. It's a fictional character in films that are pretty far removed from the original source material. As long as James Bond is still cool and has a UK accent, I don't think it's worth worrying about what race the actor playing him is. Casting an American to play James Bond though and I probably would be pissed off Yeah I agree with all that. If you have the energy to be annoyed at Aeriel being black then you should exert the same energy with Jasmine changing and Ken being blonde. Funnily enough I spoke to one of my friends a year ago about this who is black and I used the 'I wouldn't care if Idris Elba was James Bond' example. He immediately cut me off and told me that to him James Bond represents every privileged British stereotype from the 90's so he would find James Bond played by a black person weird. Which I found interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,624 Posted January 4 Moderator Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I mean, when the story of The Little Mermaid was first written, is there even a mention of her race? I don't think there is. Does it matter that in the cartoon she was white and in the live action she's black? What's the political messaging there other than "black people are equal to white people" - which is only controversial to people who are... racist. I remember watching a video of a little black girl watching the trailer of that Little Mermaid film, and she burst into tears because she was so happy. Goes to show you how how underrepresented minorities were in being a lead in a story or in a movie. It meant so much to that little girl that I totally understood why it is important things like that happen more often. Especially since Ariel is a ficitional character, so why would people be so persistent that she has to be white? Unless they are indeed racist. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,196 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 11 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said: Yeah I agree with all that. If you have the energy to be annoyed at Aeriel being black then you should exert the same energy with Jasmine changing and Ken being blonde. Funnily enough I spoke to one of my friends a year ago about this who is black and I used the 'I wouldn't care if Idris Elba was James Bond' example. He immediately cut me off and told me that to him James Bond represents every privileged British stereotype from the 90's so he would find James Bond played by a black person weird. Which I found interesting. That is interesting. And a bit weird because James Bond's been around for far longer than the 90s. But if a black Bond would make black British people feel weird, that's definitely interesting. Scouse Bond is my new vote then. Black, white, whatever, I don't care as long as they're Scouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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