Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,663 Posted March 21 Subscriber Share Posted March 21 The Premier League are massive cunts. Pass it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted March 21 Subscriber Share Posted March 21 Miserable times. The best case scenario is something that was unthinkable less than two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,189 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 10 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: The Premier League are massive cunts. Pass it on. Generally yes, but are they massive cunts for charging a club for a breach for failure to submit audited reports? Isn't that different to what the issue was with Forest and Everton? Generally, you wouldn't fail to show audited reports to a financial regulator unless: 1.) incompetence and failing to meet deadlines, 2.) you're trying to hide something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted March 21 Author Administrator Share Posted March 21 4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Generally yes, but are they massive cunts for charging a club for a breach for failure to submit audited reports? Isn't that different to what the issue was with Forest and Everton? Generally, you wouldn't fail to show audited reports to a financial regulator unless: 1.) incompetence and failing to meet deadlines, 2.) you're trying to hide something. Apparently the deadlines weren't even clear, which is a loophole we're looking to exploit... "Leicester City were relegated to the EFL Championship prior to the introduction of the Premier League’s new Standard Directions, which prescribe a timeline within which PSR cases should be heard. Therefore, the proceedings will be conducted in accordance with a timetable to be set by the independent Commission, and its final decision will be published on the Premier League’s website.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted March 21 Author Administrator Share Posted March 21 It sounds like we've already had the legal advice to just wait and see what happens, perhaps knowing this is what it would come to for now, and then respond with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted March 21 Author Administrator Share Posted March 21 This tickled me though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,189 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 3 minutes ago, Stan said: Apparently the deadlines weren't even clear, which is a loophole we're looking to exploit... "Leicester City were relegated to the EFL Championship prior to the introduction of the Premier League’s new Standard Directions, which prescribe a timeline within which PSR cases should be heard. Therefore, the proceedings will be conducted in accordance with a timetable to be set by the independent Commission, and its final decision will be published on the Premier League’s website.” If deadlines weren't clear, might actually be a way Leicester get out of this without facing any punishment tbh. Who knows - really messy the way the prem's gone about all of this shit. I genuinely think @The Palace Fan is right that they put these rules in place never expecting any breaches - which is bizarre honestly, wildly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,663 Posted March 21 Subscriber Share Posted March 21 Just now, Dr. Gonzo said: Generally yes, but are they massive cunts for charging a club for a breach for failure to submit audited reports? Isn't that different to what the issue was with Forest and Everton? Generally, you wouldn't fail to show audited reports to a financial regulator unless: 1.) incompetence and failing to meet deadlines, 2.) you're trying to hide something. I don't care what they've done to be honest mate. Every day now is PSR, PSR, PSR. Almost daily reminders that this is the new football. Accountants, lawyers, yawn, yawn, yawn. I think the Premier League have shown beyond all doubt this season that they're in no position whatsoever to be pretending they can implement these financial rules. I can see where this is going now. Nobody likes VAR but it gives everyone something to talk about and, most importantly of all, it gets clicks. The more VAR drama, the better, because it gets people on social media shouting about "the worst decision they've ever seen" and more people are talking about the Premier League. It's going to be the same with PSR. Let's find another way we can introduce financial charges to a club so everyone can keep talking about points deductions and appeals and how stupid the rules are because the only thing worse than people slating the Premier League is people not talking about the Premier League at all. I'm sure Leicester have a case to answer just like Everton and Forest did but you can see how the coverage has changed since Everton initially got the 10 point deduction. Things that would have been dealt with behind closed doors are now a spectacle that has to be played out in public over the course of several months, several meetings, and rounded off with a few journalists leaking the result before it's published accompanied by a bunch of emojis. I'm convinced it's all deliberate. All this "Forest are expecting a decision on Monday or Tuesday at the latest and maybe Sunday" is deliberately designed to get people spending three days refreshing their social media pages and searching for information. It's telling now that the national journalists have increasingly started tweeting out minor updates that would have been a footnote in an obscure article in the past. It's all about the buzz. Football is so fucked, man. If the Premier League want to be viewed as a credible enforcer of these rules then they'll start making a dent in Man City's 115 charges instead of going after a team that's already been relegated from their league. Low-hanging fruit. Of course 115 charges are more complicated but that's all the more reason to get started ffs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,189 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 12 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: I don't care what they've done to be honest mate. Every day now is PSR, PSR, PSR. Almost daily reminders that this is the new football. Accountants, lawyers, yawn, yawn, yawn. I think the Premier League have shown beyond all doubt this season that they're in no position whatsoever to be pretending they can implement these financial rules. I can see where this is going now. Nobody likes VAR but it gives everyone something to talk about and, most importantly of all, it gets clicks. The more VAR drama, the better, because it gets people on social media shouting about "the worst decision they've ever seen" and more people are talking about the Premier League. It's going to be the same with PSR. Let's find another way we can introduce financial charges to a club so everyone can keep talking about points deductions and appeals and how stupid the rules are because the only thing worse than people slating the Premier League is people not talking about the Premier League at all. I'm sure Leicester have a case to answer just like Everton and Forest did but you can see how the coverage has changed since Everton initially got the 10 point deduction. Things that would have been dealt with behind closed doors are now a spectacle that has to be played out in public over the course of several months, several meetings, and rounded off with a few journalists leaking the result before it's published accompanied by a bunch of emojis. I'm convinced it's all deliberate. All this "Forest are expecting a decision on Monday or Tuesday at the latest and maybe Sunday" is deliberately designed to get people spending three days refreshing their social media pages and searching for information. It's telling now that the national journalists have increasingly started tweeting out minor updates that would have been a footnote in an obscure article in the past. It's all about the buzz. Football is so fucked, man. If the Premier League want to be viewed as a credible enforcer of these rules then they'll start making a dent in Man City's 115 charges instead of going after a team that's already been relegated from their league. Low-hanging fruit. Of course 115 charges are more complicated but that's all the more reason to get started ffs. That's fair tbh. I do think things like VAR and the way these financial rules are being implemented are probably going to have a lot of people stop caring as much about football and ultimately will hurt more than they help. The only thing that I think helps the league retain interest is the people that are addicted to watching their club. I went 2 weeks not watching football after something pissed me off this season - and I'm only back watching it again because if I don't watch there's a Liverpool FC shaped void in my life. But I've really given way less of a fuck about clubs that aren't mine, when before I'd spend a lot of my weekend watching football. If these PSR things are going to be like the new VAR drama each week, I really can't be arsed with this shit for much longer. Like you said, it's going to massively change things when you look at the league table and you're seeing multiple clubs not in the position they should be in based off football merit but something else entirely. What's the point in giving a shit about any of this if the league table is just going to reflect how a particular group of people decided to randomly implement regulations rather than how many points a football club's actually earned by playing football? And yeah - if the league wants to be taken seriously, maybe do something about the 115 Charges FC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted March 21 Author Administrator Share Posted March 21 It's never boring being a Leicester fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt 1,282 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 21 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: If deadlines weren't clear, might actually be a way Leicester get out of this without facing any punishment tbh. Who knows - really messy the way the prem's gone about all of this shit. I genuinely think @The Palace Fan is right that they put these rules in place never expecting any breaches - which is bizarre honestly, wildly so. Just highlights the sheer incompetence of the Premiership really. How can you put rules in and not know what to do if said rule is broken? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,827 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 Gone horrifically wrong there from being a stable club that bought a bargain and sold the occasional player for big bucks relying on that to rebuild, a la Brighton. Going to be interesting what happens now because that'll no doubt open a can of worms simply for being in a different division. Just a clusterfuck isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,402 Posted March 21 Share Posted March 21 It's hard to sympathise with Leicester City given this isn't the first time they've been accused of overspending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted March 21 Subscriber Share Posted March 21 It's apparent to me that ineptitude is rife in all parties. We've got too much previous to be off the hook for me with the Silva fiasco and god knows what else (I could try and list the errors in the last five years and probably miss half of them) but it's also apparent those implementing the rules are no better. The Everton deduction being reduced because they essentially admitted they had plucked a figure out of thin air sums up what you're dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted March 21 Subscriber Share Posted March 21 4 hours ago, RandoEFC said: I don't care what they've done to be honest mate. Every day now is PSR, PSR, PSR. Almost daily reminders that this is the new football. Accountants, lawyers, yawn, yawn, yawn. I think the Premier League have shown beyond all doubt this season that they're in no position whatsoever to be pretending they can implement these financial rules. I can see where this is going now. Nobody likes VAR but it gives everyone something to talk about and, most importantly of all, it gets clicks. The more VAR drama, the better, because it gets people on social media shouting about "the worst decision they've ever seen" and more people are talking about the Premier League. It's going to be the same with PSR. Let's find another way we can introduce financial charges to a club so everyone can keep talking about points deductions and appeals and how stupid the rules are because the only thing worse than people slating the Premier League is people not talking about the Premier League at all. I'm sure Leicester have a case to answer just like Everton and Forest did but you can see how the coverage has changed since Everton initially got the 10 point deduction. Things that would have been dealt with behind closed doors are now a spectacle that has to be played out in public over the course of several months, several meetings, and rounded off with a few journalists leaking the result before it's published accompanied by a bunch of emojis. I'm convinced it's all deliberate. All this "Forest are expecting a decision on Monday or Tuesday at the latest and maybe Sunday" is deliberately designed to get people spending three days refreshing their social media pages and searching for information. It's telling now that the national journalists have increasingly started tweeting out minor updates that would have been a footnote in an obscure article in the past. It's all about the buzz. Football is so fucked, man. If the Premier League want to be viewed as a credible enforcer of these rules then they'll start making a dent in Man City's 115 charges instead of going after a team that's already been relegated from their league. Low-hanging fruit. Of course 115 charges are more complicated but that's all the more reason to get started ffs. Pretty much entirely this. I'm bored of it already and we've only been charged officially a few hours ago. It's a dreary experience. Luton fans will tell their grandkids about the day the courts sent Forest down at their expense. The pitch invasions of their garden were to die for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,663 Posted March 22 Subscriber Share Posted March 22 13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: The only thing that I think helps the league retain interest is the people that are addicted to watching their club. I went 2 weeks not watching football after something pissed me off this season - and I'm only back watching it again because if I don't watch there's a Liverpool FC shaped void in my life. But I've really given way less of a fuck about clubs that aren't mine, when before I'd spend a lot of my weekend watching football. This is where I'm at. I love football and I can't stop following Everton, but I'm not just throwing a tantrum when I say that the Premier League has now completely jumped the shark in my eyes. People can argue about whether it's corrupt, I think it is to be honest, because the governing body should be placing sporting integrity above all else and they clearly have too many conflicts of interest to do so. If anyone doesn't think it's corrupt then they at least have to admit that it's uncompetitive, and the way this PSR era of the Premier League is playing out, it's becoming clear that it's uncompetitive by design. I'm done with the Premier League but unfortunately I'm one of millions of fans who is held hostage by what a train-wreck modern elite football has become because my football club happens to play in this league. It's why I said above that I could find many reasons to be grateful if I ended up supporting a Championship club. At least it's still vaguely "real" at that level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted March 22 Subscriber Share Posted March 22 I think a lot was revealed about who really holds the cards in April 2021 when the super league happened and then fell to bits. The speed which that got brushed under the carpet was quite revealing - tells me that people aren't 'really' bothered about the integrity of the sport as long as they have the illusion of a competitive league system playing out. The clubs weren't punished one bit and nobody is truly bothered by it. That tells you who really holds the power. Football doesn't really embrace radical change like that, but the fans in this country collectively don't really make any fuss about the gradual creep towards everything they would lose their shit about if it did happen overnight. I think things are in a far worse place than 10 years ago for example and it all comes via the subtleties. I think the super league does eventually happen, but by the time it happens, the majority will either be so worn down that it isn't even viewed as a bad option, or even what we have now will just become the super league by stealth. I've had my emotion totally stolen from football to be honest. I don't know if it's just a side effect of getting older and wiser, whether it's because I've witnessed genuine highs and lows or if the sport is just getting worse. It's a combination of all three but I don't think I'll ever truly get that back now. I have so little good to say about it these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,827 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) Just to play devil's advocate here for a second (not looking for any bites I must clarify) and not sure if this hasn't already been alluded to. Wasn't PSR only brought in after clubs in the Premier League voted to do so? I mean, you can't moan at the Premier League for breaching rules if you've already agreed to setting them with them surely? This is what the clubs wanted to prevent them doing something much like what we'd done before in the past, and look how long that took us to recover from. I know that's a very black and white way to look at things but I'm struggling to see what's hard about rules being brought in and knowing when you've broke them, especially when it's something as transparent as this PSR stuff. The accountants at these clubs must be well aware of all this. The only thing I'd say about the situation is, no one knows definitevely what the punishment's are for each amount you are over. Like, it should be common knowledge that for every £5m/£10 you were over, equates to a 1pt deduction etc just as an example. Edited March 22 by Lucas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted March 22 Subscriber Share Posted March 22 50 minutes ago, Lucas said: Just to play devil's advocate here for a second (not looking for any bites I must clarify) and not sure if this hasn't already been alluded to. Wasn't PSR only brought in after clubs in the Premier League voted to do so? I mean, you can't moan at the Premier League for breaching rules if you've already agreed to setting them with them surely? This is what the clubs wanted to prevent them doing something much like what we'd done before in the past, and look how long that took us to recover from. I know that's a very black and white way to look at things but I'm struggling to see what's hard about rules being brought in and knowing when you've broke them, especially when it's something as transparent as this PSR stuff. The accountants at these clubs must be well aware of all this. The only thing I'd say about the situation is, no one knows definitevely what the punishment's are for each amount you are over. Like, it should be common knowledge that for every £5m/£10 you were over, equates to a 1pt deduction etc just as an example. This is where my sympathy with us dies. I've never quite understood the way we've voted on these sorts of things. I really do suspect foul play. Why would we vote to hurt ourselves? Just as a side note, are Leeds potentially in any bother? I look at some of your signings and the fact you've got so many big money players out on loan and think there's a possibility you get done, but then you did make a couple of significant sales. I find so many of these debates people just want to point to one particular issue when there are numerous. When I call the Premier League corrupt and a shambles, I don't do that from the position of thinking Leicester have been a well oiled machine, and likewise when I criticise Leicester's poor dealings I don't say that from the position of wanting to defend what is clearly a rigged system against clubs like ours - but then it's one that we have voted for ourselves. I really do miss the days we used to argue about footballers and teams. I've actually quite enjoyed some of the bile to and from Coventry and Leeds fans in a really backwards way. They're football arguments how I remember them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,663 Posted March 22 Subscriber Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, Lucas said: Just to play devil's advocate here for a second (not looking for any bites I must clarify) and not sure if this hasn't already been alluded to. Wasn't PSR only brought in after clubs in the Premier League voted to do so? I mean, you can't moan at the Premier League for breaching rules if you've already agreed to setting them with them surely? This is what the clubs wanted to prevent them doing something much like what we'd done before in the past, and look how long that took us to recover from. I know that's a very black and white way to look at things but I'm struggling to see what's hard about rules being brought in and knowing when you've broke them, especially when it's something as transparent as this PSR stuff. The accountants at these clubs must be well aware of all this. The only thing I'd say about the situation is, no one knows definitevely what the punishment's are for each amount you are over. Like, it should be common knowledge that for every £5m/£10 you were over, equates to a 1pt deduction etc just as an example. I've seen a few people mention this. I think PSR was sold to the clubs as one thing and is turning out to be something completely different. The lack of a set in stone sanctions policy is on the clubs as well and it's been pointed out that Everton were one of the clubs that voted against having one so that cases could be handled on a case by case basis. Obviously that leaves some trust in the Premier League to act fairly and in good faith but I don't think we've seen that. It goes to show the people running these football clubs can't be trusted to have a say in the governance of the sport either so the sooner all this independent regulator goes through the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,827 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, Dan said: This is where my sympathy with us dies. I've never quite understood the way we've voted on these sorts of things. I really do suspect foul play. Why would we vote to hurt ourselves? Just as a side note, are Leeds potentially in any bother? I look at some of your signings and the fact you've got so many big money players out on loan and think there's a possibility you get done, but then you did make a couple of significant sales. I find so many of these debates people just want to point to one particular issue when there are numerous. When I call the Premier League corrupt and a shambles, I don't do that from the position of thinking Leicester have been a well oiled machine, and likewise when I criticise Leicester's poor dealings I don't say that from the position of wanting to defend what is clearly a rigged system against clubs like ours - but then it's one that we have voted for ourselves. I really do miss the days we used to argue about footballers and teams. I've actually quite enjoyed some of the bile to and from Coventry and Leeds fans in a really backwards way. They're football arguments how I remember them! As far as I'm aware, no. As you alluded to, and when Radrizzani was there, he clarified, we had to sell Phillips and Raphinha with all this bollocks in mind. And the one good thing Victor Orta did do when negotiating deals for the replacements, was to make these clauses that meant wages would be halved upon relegation or they would be available for loan deals. We've saved buckets as a result although it obviously caused a lot of upheaval in the summer not knowing who says and who goes. I assume with the 49ers coming in now too, our position should be pretty solid but you can never be certain without knowing all the in's and out's. I do agree with you on your last paragraph for sure. The talking points these days are about the things no one really wants to talk about. I love Leeds to bits, as I do Football generally, and without it, I'd be lost. But there is no doubt the raw passion for it has subsided for many in recent times and that is sad to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,827 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 5 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: I've seen a few people mention this. I think PSR was sold to the clubs as one thing and is turning out to be something completely different. The lack of a set in stone sanctions policy is on the clubs as well and it's been pointed out that Everton were one of the clubs that voted against having one so that cases could be handled on a case by case basis. Obviously that leaves some trust in the Premier League to act fairly and in good faith but I don't think we've seen that. It goes to show the people running these football clubs can't be trusted to have a say in the governance of the sport either so the sooner all this independent regulator goes through the better. This is what get's me. They are the one's in a position to project where the club is at before making any decision that financially impacts the club, so unless they are advising the powers that be not to do this or that at risk of breaking rules and being overruled, what the fuck are they doing? Either that or there is genuine confusion across the board as to what time period you can afford to do something or not. You'd like to think in light of what's happened now with yourselves, Forest and Leicester, that every club in the country is making sure they go through their finaces with a toothcomb to ensure they know where they stand with things, especially given how stringent the PL are now being with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted March 22 Author Administrator Share Posted March 22 EFL placing us under a transfer embargo. Club responding by saying there's still some accounting period remaining so what are you playing at This could go on for a while. And probably get messy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted March 22 Subscriber Share Posted March 22 39 minutes ago, Stan said: EFL placing us under a transfer embargo. Club responding by saying there's still some accounting period remaining so what are you playing at This could go on for a while. And probably get messy... You know when you said it's never boring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted March 22 Author Administrator Share Posted March 22 40 minutes ago, Dan said: You know when you said it's never boring Technicality FC. Entertainment FC. Laughing stock FC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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