Leicester City Discussion

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

That depends. Does Leicester have any worthwhile academy players? That’s Koeman’s thing, he likes to give chances to the up and comers.

Yep, we do. Some good talents to follow in the footsteps of Chilwell, Barnes, Thomas, Dewsbury-Hall.

Will Alves, Sammy Braybrooke, Lewis Brunt, Joe Wormleighton, Tawanda, Maswanhise, Wanya Marcal-Madivadua, Callum Wright are all tipped to have good careers, some more than others but plenty to keep an eye on.

Thanawat Suengchittawon is/was as well - he's already been playing for the Thai national team. But he did his ACL recently sadly so will be out for the season. 

[Chickasaw]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

Yep, we do. Some good talents to follow in the footsteps of Chilwell, Barnes, Thomas, Dewsbury-Hall.

Will Alves, Sammy Braybrooke, Lewis Brunt, Joe Wormleighton, Tawanda, Maswanhise, Wanya Marcal-Madivadua, Callum Wright are all tipped to have good careers, some more than others but plenty to keep an eye on.

Thanawat Suengchittawon is/was as well - he's already been playing for the Thai national team. But he did his ACL recently sadly so will be out for the season. 

There are some tongue twisters there Stan.

[RandoEFC+]

I'm no expert on the rest of his career but Koeman certainly wasn't an academy focused manager in his time with Everton. 

[Dan+]

The Rodgers youngsters thing is a bit of a myth I think. He's got the persona that makes you think he's good at bringing them through and while he's not been terrible for it I think there are far better out there. That Watford cup game last season was largely forced by necessity and yet we thumped them, I really thought you would see a bit more from them, but none of them get near the side even last night.

The fact we're being taken to penalties, and can't score against a Stockport side on 4 defeats from 5 in League Two is absolutely damning - and that isn't that weak a Leicester side either. There are plenty in that side who will play this season. In-fact virtually all of them will feature I reckon 10 or more times in the league.

I can't say how well a lot of these youngsters will turn out but opportunity is massive. What's really bad is how not a single one gets a minute against Stockport and we still end up resorting to our key players because we can't break them down. For some context, in his first season, we thrashed Luton and Burton away in similar ties, both comfortably better sides than Stockport. It's a world away from what we're seeing now. They're absolutely loaded with fear. If he's filling the first team with fear then god knows what happens when a kid plays.

I really don't want to see this go on any longer. Every bit of it is horrible. It's depressing to watch. I've never known it be this sour this early in a season. It really didn't have to be like this either.

[Chickasaw]

14 minutes ago, Dan said:

The Rodgers youngsters thing is a bit of a myth I think. He's got the persona that makes you think he's good at bringing them through and while he's not been terrible for it I think there are far better out there. That Watford cup game last season was largely forced by necessity and yet we thumped them, I really thought you would see a bit more from them, but none of them get near the side even last night.

The fact we're being taken to penalties, and can't score against a Stockport side on 4 defeats from 5 in League Two is absolutely damning - and that isn't that weak a Leicester side either. There are plenty in that side who will play this season. In-fact virtually all of them will feature I reckon 10 or more times in the league.

I can't say how well a lot of these youngsters will turn out but opportunity is massive. What's really bad is how not a single one gets a minute against Stockport and we still end up resorting to our key players because we can't break them down. For some context, in his first season, we thrashed Luton and Burton away in similar ties, both comfortably better sides than Stockport. It's a world away from what we're seeing now. They're absolutely loaded with fear. If he's filling the first team with fear then god knows what happens when a kid plays.

I really don't want to see this go on any longer. Every bit of it is horrible. It's depressing to watch. I've never known it be this sour this early in a season. It really didn't have to be like this either.

Cup competitions cannot be compared with league because they produce such surprising results with minnows eating big fish. I've seen Leicester do badly in the league but do well in cups along with other teams like Portsmouth which reached The FA cup final but were relegated. League one teams have beaten PL teams so I wouldn't judge too harshly on last night's match. I'm willing to wager that tiddlers will knock out big guns again this season

[Dan+]

1 minute ago, Chickasaw said:

Cup competitions cannot be compared with league because they produce such surprising results with minnows eating big fish. I've seen Leicester do badly in the league but do well in cups along with other teams like Portsmouth which reached The FA cup final but were relegated. League one teams have beaten PL teams so I wouldn't judge too harshly on last night's match. I'm willing to wager that tiddlers will knock out big guns again this season

Like I said earlier though, we played Luton and Burton in his first season and I had absolutely no concern that we'd do anything other than beat both comfortably. Compare to last night where I had a concern something like that would happen, Newport in 2019 where I felt similarly - they're symptomatic of a team in disarray. Leicester when things are clicking will probably stick 3/4 past Stockport and nobody has any concerns. Just because it happens doesn't make it acceptable. It doesn't happen by chance and it won't happen to a team in good knick. That to me was another episode of our shambolic situation, bailed out by a goalkeeper he wrongly won't start in the league.

[OrangeKhrush]

Leicester are not signing anyone so they can save money for next season,  but the team doesn't look like the ducks nuts right now and in the Premier League nobody is to good to go down.   Also the loss of European money is going to tighten the beanbag a bit more.    I can get Leicester wanting to hold onto Fofana and Maddison,  but it may not be a smart move if they don't improve the team now.   It is a very long time until January. 

[Chickasaw]

2 minutes ago, Dan said:

Like I said earlier though, we played Luton and Burton in his first season and I had absolutely no concern that we'd do anything other than beat both comfortably. Compare to last night where I had a concern something like that would happen, Newport in 2019 where I felt similarly - they're symptomatic of a team in disarray. Leicester when things are clicking will probably stick 3/4 past Stockport and nobody has any concerns. Just because it happens doesn't make it acceptable. It doesn't happen by chance and it won't happen to a team in good knick. That to me was another episode of our shambolic situation, bailed out by a goalkeeper he wrongly won't start in the league.

The effort was there though if you have read the stats.

[Dan+]

1 minute ago, Chickasaw said:

The effort was there though if you have read the stats.

I went to the game. The stats are a symptom of Stockport parking the bus and Leicester having no clue how to break it down. I commend the effort put in by Stockport but it's really not on from us. We had no youth players out there - largely backups to the first team. Rodgers said something quite disrespectful about Stockport, which I half agreed with but the statement itself actually really makes him look inept as well - in that "a Sunday League side could've set up how Stockport did".

You get cup upsets but they're often the symptom of a wider problem. That was very much the case yesterday. Oh and as a side note for people who say we have bad luck with injuries. He gives Barnes 90 minutes upon a return v Southampton and then another 90 minutes at Stockport midweek. It's mismanagement. The entire thing is to patch up the flaws in his football and the cracks are practically grand canyons at this point.

[Dan+]

6 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Leicester are not signing anyone so they can save money for next season,  but the team doesn't look like the ducks nuts right now and in the Premier League nobody is to good to go down.   Also the loss of European money is going to tighten the beanbag a bit more.    I can get Leicester wanting to hold onto Fofana and Maddison,  but it may not be a smart move if they don't improve the team now.   It is a very long time until January. 

Your last statement is actually a little untrue and I think it could be the difference in us getting away with it. OK obviously January is the same time every year but we only play another 11 league games before it. You would usually play half of your season before January but this season it's about a third.

I agree with everything else though - our underlying xG numbers and whatnot last season had us below Everton if you're into that stuff and want some context that this isn't some flash in the pan bad run. We've been crap for ages, frequently saved by how well we finish against how well teams finish against us. What I'm saying is our performances last season were nearer to a relegation scrap than people realise. While I've been assured we'd keep getting away with it because of the form of Maddison and to a degree Vardy, the squad is getting poorer. He won't play Soyuncu, he now probably won't play Tielemans or Fofana in the league, Schmeichel has gone, Ricardo's out for probably the season again. With not a single reinforcement our XI does not look strong anymore. Amartey, who wouldn't get in Bournemouth's side, starts games for us. Ward is surely in the bottom 3 for goalkeepers.

I think Leicester being bottom at Christmas might be well overpriced. It sounds dramatic but it really isn't.

[OrangeKhrush]

2 hours ago, Dan said:

Your last statement is actually a little untrue and I think it could be the difference in us getting away with it. OK obviously January is the same time every year but we only play another 11 league games before it. You would usually play half of your season before January but this season it's about a third.

I agree with everything else though - our underlying xG numbers and whatnot last season had us below Everton if you're into that stuff and want some context that this isn't some flash in the pan bad run. We've been crap for ages, frequently saved by how well we finish against how well teams finish against us. What I'm saying is our performances last season were nearer to a relegation scrap than people realise. While I've been assured we'd keep getting away with it because of the form of Maddison and to a degree Vardy, the squad is getting poorer. He won't play Soyuncu, he now probably won't play Tielemans or Fofana in the league, Schmeichel has gone, Ricardo's out for probably the season again. With not a single reinforcement our XI does not look strong anymore. Amartey, who wouldn't get in Bournemouth's side, starts games for us. Ward is surely in the bottom 3 for goalkeepers.

I think Leicester being bottom at Christmas might be well overpriced. It sounds dramatic but it really isn't.

The world cup does mean less games but the converse to that means there will be a run of games after the new year where things will come thick and fast and if you don't have depth or a key player goes down then it can get very long.   Having gone through the Mike Ashley years of spending nothing while everyone else improves their squads is a dangerous ploy.   Selling Fofana, Maddison, Tielemans etc may allow you to get in a few young players and rebuild,  find the next group of stars to build off

[Stan]

16 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The world cup does mean less games but the converse to that means there will be a run of games after the new year where things will come thick and fast and if you don't have depth or a key player goes down then it can get very long.   Having gone through the Mike Ashley years of spending nothing while everyone else improves their squads is a dangerous ploy.   Selling Fofana, Maddison, Tielemans etc may allow you to get in a few young players and rebuild,  find the next group of stars to build off

The worry being selling those 3, including Maddison (I know you're angling for a sale to Newcastle) really well and truly fvcks us up before the World Cup. And with a very poor start to the season, it's not ideal in the slightest. 

Not to mention if Rodgers should be trusted with a rebuild. 

It's just not in our strategy to sell more than 1 asset per summer. It's what we've done with Chilwell, Maguire, Mahrez, Kante etc. We're not mugs when it comes to selling. We'll happily hold our own and so we should. We won't be bullied. 

[OrangeKhrush]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

The worry being selling those 3, including Maddison (I know you're angling for a sale to Newcastle) really well and truly fvcks us up before the World Cup. And with a very poor start to the season, it's not ideal in the slightest. 

Not to mention if Rodgers should be trusted with a rebuild. 

It's just not in our strategy to sell more than 1 asset per summer. It's what we've done with Chilwell, Maguire, Mahrez, Kante etc. We're not mugs when it comes to selling. We'll happily hold our own and so we should. We won't be bullied. 

You are likely to sell Fofana and probably trying to sell Tielemans.

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

You are likely to sell Fofana and probably trying to sell Tielemans.

I know. But unlikely Maddison goes along with those 2.

Its quite surprising more hasn't been made of a Tielemans transfer, in the sense that there haven't been further offers. 

We'll hold our own for Fofana as is our right. No obligation to sell. 

[Dan+]

35 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

The world cup does mean less games but the converse to that means there will be a run of games after the new year where things will come thick and fast and if you don't have depth or a key player goes down then it can get very long.   Having gone through the Mike Ashley years of spending nothing while everyone else improves their squads is a dangerous ploy.   Selling Fofana, Maddison, Tielemans etc may allow you to get in a few young players and rebuild,  find the next group of stars to build off

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but think the World Cup if anything works in our favour as it buys us time - although if nobody is sold then what is the use anyway? It feels like just kicking the can down the road.

There was talk a few weeks ago that we were holding back on signings because we had too big a wage bill and too many players in the squad as it was. Well we've managed to trim 2 (Schmeichel & Choudhury) so I'm less inclined to believe that and actually think they're just refusing to back Rodgers.

The entire strategy seems all over the place. They must have some serious faith in this new bloke we have coming in as head of recruitment, given we've surrendered having somebody in place all summer just to get him in.

[Dan+]

Christ, when you think of Maddison possibly going too. Next summer is going to be enormous for us. They're gambling on us staying up which I think they saw as a safe bet but this start has made you seriously question otherwise.

I don't think we'll actually go down but I think we're right in the discussion this time. Like I said we'll likely be bottom after 6 games.

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Dan said:

Christ, when you think of Maddison possibly going too. Next summer is going to be enormous for us. They're gambling on us staying up which I think they saw as a safe bet but this start has made you seriously question otherwise.

I don't think we'll actually go down but I think we're right in the discussion this time. Like I said we'll likely be bottom after 6 games.

Been three games lad. We were five points from safety with six games left or something and when push came to shove, the quality over the bottom three came to the fore and we survived. And you've got many more players who are "too good to go down" than we had last season.

Granted, like I think you said elsewhere, the biggest suspects have made good starts with Fulham looking alright, Bournemouth picking up an opening win, Forest getting some points, Brentford looking nowhere near having any second season syndrome, Leeds smashing Chelsea and Southampton coming from behind to beat you lot. Makes you nervous but really until after the World Cup even the bottom club will only be one good run of games away from being clear of it.

[Dan+]

12 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Been three games lad. We were five points from safety with six games left or something and when push came to shove, the quality over the bottom three came to the fore and we survived. And you've got many more players who are "too good to go down" than we had last season.

Granted, like I think you said elsewhere, the biggest suspects have made good starts with Fulham looking alright, Bournemouth picking up an opening win, Forest getting some points, Brentford looking nowhere near having any second season syndrome, Leeds smashing Chelsea and Southampton coming from behind to beat you lot. Makes you nervous but really until after the World Cup even the bottom club will only be one good run of games away from being clear of it.

You had the benefit of Watford and Norwich. I think this year there's only one of them (Bournemouth) and that's not even a guarantee either. Burnley as well were circling the bowl and had stagnated under Dyche.

Like I say, I don't think we'll go down, and it could all come to pass that we've had a real false start and we do get some kind of grip on things. What I think will ultimately happen is we'll sack Rodgers, improve a bit and pull ourselves out of the discussion with a virtue of the level of quality of player we have - but I do think that's something that is diminishing and it was always going to given we've added hardly anything to the squad in the last three years. The longer we wait to sack him though, the harder turning it around will be.

The level of performance on offer concerns me more than anything. If you take West Ham I don't really have any fears for them. I did have a feeling they would have a poorer year, but they have made a couple of decent additions, they've been extremely unlucky at Forest and then played Man City. I can't really defend the Brighton game but Brighton look good again. I see far more reason West Ham will be OK than us. We create hardly anything, we can't defend, we shit ourselves when we're in front. It's a horrible mix. That Southampton game at the weekend and the manner of it was so bad that it's actually spooked me into thinking we're in the discussion. How can you go 1-0 up at home to a side with 1 win in 14 (had lost their last 8 away games or something), the youngest PL XI named in 5 years, and cave in like that and lose? That's the kind of thing only a Norwich or a Watford would've been capable of. I can forgive freak results and bad luck, but virtually every aspect you can name of our performances are getting worse. There was nothing unlucky about it. Southampton looked objectively better in every department. Fucking Southampton!! I cannot name a single side I'd fancy us to beat in the league this weekend.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Dan

[Stan]

20 minutes ago, Dan said:

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but think the World Cup if anything works in our favour as it buys us time - although if nobody is sold then what is the use anyway? It feels like just kicking the can down the road.

There was talk a few weeks ago that we were holding back on signings because we had too big a wage bill and too many players in the squad as it was. Well we've managed to trim 2 (Schmeichel & Choudhury) so I'm less inclined to believe that and actually think they're just refusing to back Rodgers.

The entire strategy seems all over the place. They must have some serious faith in this new bloke we have coming in as head of recruitment, given we've surrendered having somebody in place all summer just to get him in.

It's quite reasonable to believe that the sale of Schmeichel doesn't solve all the wage and financial issues. Considering we have to have considerable deductions in the wages, it's conceivable to figure that we need more sales - the likes of Soumare and Vestergaard going helps things.

But we've only got a week left. Even those 2 do go, who else is there to bring in and what are the chances we actually get deals done in time? 

I think eventually we'll be alright whether Rodgers stays or not but this could go down as a big summer for all the wrong reasons. 

Next summer is massive regardless - lots of players out of contract, and I imagine we'll see a lot of spending as a result. 

[Dan+]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

It's quite reasonable to believe that the sale of Schmeichel doesn't solve all the wage and financial issues. Considering we have to have considerable deductions in the wages, it's conceivable to figure that we need more sales - the likes of Soumare and Vestergaard going helps things.

But we've only got a week left. Even those 2 do go, who else is there to bring in and what are the chances we actually get deals done in time? 

I think eventually we'll be alright whether Rodgers stays or not but this could go down as a big summer for all the wrong reasons. 

Next summer is massive regardless - lots of players out of contract, and I imagine we'll see a lot of spending as a result. 

It doesn't solve the issue but you would think, given two players have departed and the problem was less about funds and more the sustainability, that we could've done one deal by now. But there's nothing. You don't have to break the bank. I'm talking literally a £6/7mil player or something, a prospect from the continent.

This summer is already a failure bar a miracle. I think we've spent too long trying to haggle with other clubs when the priority should've just been getting them out the door. Did we not have Monaco offering us £15mil or something for Soumare a few weeks ago, so what, we haggle over another £5mil but in doing so end up putting a premium of a similar or even greater value on anybody else we bring in? I just feel we had to accept we needed players out and if it meant selling a couple of them for under value then so be it. It's far from perfect but it's preferable to this. We've missed out on targets as a result and we both know we have. Niakhate at Forest for example was a target of ours, they got him for a seven figure fee, he would surely be preferable to Amartey or Vestergaard.

I think we had to carefully manage the summer but we've ultimately not done a good job of it. I've no idea what the Fofana plan is. Are we just going to keep him in the reserves or bring him back in? I get specifically leaving him out against Chelsea but if he's staying then I think we need to just bite the bullet and get him back in the XI.

And I haven't even mentioned Tielemans and Soyuncu. Fuck me we're in for some overhaul. I think part of it scares me because we've had a few years of failing to effectively replenish, so when we're going to have to do a load at once, crikey we better get it right. We need to have a window like Palace's last summer. This Glover appointment feels make or break.

[Stan]

Glad to hear of these links to Tapsoba and Lacroix. 

Would substantially improve the quality at the back. 

Still definitely need a RW. Not sure about another midfielder. 

 

[Stan]

And now Loic Bade 

 

[Dan+]

I'd be happy with Lacroix and I called Tapsoba a few weeks ago. Really not keen on Akanji.

[Spike]

Honestly probably better to wait till next season to let clubs know that you lot won't be pressured into overspending or quick spending.

[Stan]

Just now, Spike said:

Honestly probably better to wait till next season to let clubs know that you lot won't be pressured into overspending or quick spending.

Squad needs reinforcements now though.