BAME Coaches Everywhere

[Dave]

Every England team will have an ethnic minority coach as part of their coaching staff wherever possible, Sky Sports News understands.

The move will not be mandatory but where possible, the FA is aiming to have a black, Asian or ethnic minority coach involved with all men's, women's and disabled teams across all age groups.

The FA appointments for a total of 28 national teams are expected to range from full-time coaching jobs to part-time places for coaches already working full-time at league clubs.

[Stan]

feel like it's just positive discrimination at its finest? 

Having someone to fill quotas based on the colour of their skin as opposed to if they're good enough for the job or not.

[Smiley Culture]

The most experienced and best suited coach, regardless of his/her ethnicity is probably the best road to go down, if you ask me. It’s not a road The FA seem to be able to find though. 

 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

feel like it's just positive discrimination at its finest? 

Having someone to fill quotas based on the colour of their skin as opposed to if they're good enough for the job or not.

You're right. BUT their rationale is to promote a culture within minority communities so that within a generation these programs aren't necessary as people have begun a culture of success and working. I don't agree with it but I hope it only leads to people growing in jobs as opposed to soaking up the wages for a more talented coach.

I see parallels between this and the 'welfare state'. The idea (or supposed idea, I can't vouch for cynical governments) was to help someone get onto their feet so they won't need the welfare within X amount of time. However all it did was make it easy for people lead a negative lifestyle that depends on 'gimmies'. I hope the people this is intended to target proceed with it in the sense of making the best out of an oppurtunity as opposed to 'you owe me this job position'.

[Dan+]

Fundamentally and irrevocably wrong, but no surprise as it's the FA.

How is such rubbish supposed to help cure racism? Creating a divide does the total opposite.

[Honey Honey]

The FA will hire an ethnic minority candidate to put cones out. Good one. Next they'll be demanding we drop the title "kitman" and hire more women to wash everyone's shirt.

 

[Spike]

Are there any lobbyist groups pressuring the FA into these actions?

[Smiley Culture]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

Are there any lobbyist groups pressuring the FA into these actions?

[Honey Honey]

Think they are under most pressure following Mark Sampson racially abusing players whilst England manager.

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

 

Ooof, behind Shearer, Beckham, and Terry obviously. Does he actually believe that shite? He obviously doesn't respect any of the captains he played with.

[Dan+]

1 hour ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Think they are under most pressure following Mark Sampson racially abusing players whilst England manager.

That seems a bit odd. Surely if that was the case they'd have done something anti-racist and not this?

[HK85]

Not that much of a big deal. Gives some young BAME coaches positive role models in the game. 

[RandoEFC+]

Non-story. Could see inexperienced people like Ian Wright being involved with the England team despite never managing or coaching but at the same time Southgate is hardly qualified to be England manager so what difference does it make.

[Smiley Culture]

35 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Non-story. Could see inexperienced people like Ian Wright being involved with the England team despite never managing or coaching but at the same time Southgate is hardly qualified to be England manager so what difference does it make.

A man who’s worked in the Premier League, won a trophy (I think), coached with the International set-up and knows The FA and it’s practices. 

Hardly “under qualified”, though I do get your point  

Whereas giving a person of a different origin a job, over other candidates who may or not be suitably qualified for the role, based upon their skin colour and/or ethnic origin is just as ‘wrong’ as giving someone with little experience an opportunity as big as the international managerial position. 

[Dan+]

Chris Powell must surely feel a bit patronised. He can't ever feel the full satisfaction of success now.

[Danny]

Look at how many BAME players there are through the league's, England team of old had Cole, Ferdinand, Campbell, James, Richards, Vassel, Dyer, Jenas, Wright-Phillips, Heskey....just off the top of my head. I know a couple are still playing but how many do you see in coaching set ups around the country, closing in on management? Ryan Giggs walked into the Wales job, Gerrard being made for the Liverpool job. You just don't see black players of that calibre being offered those opportunities.

Then there's the large amount of BAME players through the professional ranks and non-league in England, currently our starting eleven at any one time can generally have (when fully fit) 7 first team players who are BAME, 5 of which are English. Most clubs around the country will have similar numbers and it's been like that for years...but where are they in management?

The likes of Chris Powell, Sol Campbell, Paul Ince etc are using their influence to change thought processes and open doors up for tomorrow's BAME coaching and managerial candidates.

Im not a fan of having to quota in people, but this has been an issue for years now and still hasn't been fixed so the need to have them fast tracked into these positions to allow a pathway for others to work up the ladder is there.

[Spike]

8 minutes ago, Danny said:

Look at how many BAME players there are through the league's, England team of old had Cole, Ferdinand, Campbell, James, Richards, Vassel, Dyer, Jenas, Wright-Phillips, Heskey....just off the top of my head. I know a couple are still playing but how many do you see in coaching set ups around the country, closing in on management? Ryan Giggs walked into the Wales job, Gerrard being made for the Liverpool job. You just don't see black players of that calibre being offered those opportunities.

Then there's the large amount of BAME players through the professional ranks and non-league in England, currently our starting eleven at any one time can generally have (when fully fit) 7 first team players who are BAME, 5 of which are English. Most clubs around the country will have similar numbers and it's been like that for years...but where are they in management?

The likes of Chris Powell, Sol Campbell, Paul Ince etc are using their influence to change thought processes and open doors up for tomorrow's BAME coaching and managerial candidates.

Im not a fan of having to quota in people, but this has been an issue for years now and still hasn't been fixed so the need to have them fast tracked into these positions to allow a pathway for others to work up the ladder is there.

Giggs's dad is black ya goof

Besides BAME players = BAME coaches is a bad arguement because it assumes that former players want to be coaches. 

[Danny]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Giggs's dad is black ya goof

Besides BAME players = BAME coaches is a bad arguement because it assumes that former players want to be coaches. 

His granddad is but "Giggseh" is white to most people.

Its not a bad argument, there is a shortage of BAME coaches yet the professional ranks are filled with BAME players. Not every player will want to coach but the numbers should be considerably higher along with the opportunity to progress.

Edit: Stupid post alert, I know his dad is but I mean that his granddad is too and where his heritage comes from 😂

[Spike]

5 minutes ago, Danny said:

His granddad is but "Giggseh" is white to most people.

Its not a bad argument, there is a shortage of BAME coaches yet the professional ranks are filled with BAME players. Not every player will want to coach but the numbers should be considerably higher along with the opportunity to progress.

Now that is a weird thing to say! First time in the universe anyone with black near heritage is white. Ethnic race and heritage isn't a consideration, it is or it isn't.  Imagine telling Giggs' dad he isn't black.

Its a false equivalency. It happens all the time in life there are more female than male doctors and nurses but the ratio is far more skewed with nurses. 

[Dan+]

I prepare to be shot down for this, and I'm not saying it's something I'd want anything doing about as quite frankly to me it isn't a problem, but there's so much talk about BAME being under-represented at managerial level compared to the population, yet is there not an argument, also against the population, that players are over-represented?

[Danny]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

Now that is a weird thing to say! First time in the universe anyone with black near heritage is white. Ethnic race and heritage isn't a consideration, it is or it isn't.  Imagine telling Giggs' dad he isn't black.

Its a false equivalency. It happens all the time in life there are more female than male doctors and nurses but the ratio is far more skewed with nurses. 

Mate loads of people assume he's white British until a news story pops up showing his heritage.

Thats not an argument, nurses don't end their career to then become a doctor. You generally become one or the other. Playing the game is a pathway to coaching, if black players aren't becoming coaches in decent numbers then there is a problem as that is not natural progression.

6 hours ago, Dan said:

I prepare to be shot down for this, and I'm not saying it's something I'd want anything doing about as quite frankly to me it isn't a problem, but there's so much talk about BAME being under-represented at managerial level compared to the population, yet is there not an argument, also against the population, that players are over-represented?

It's not about national population, it's about the large amount of BAME players compared to white players and then the small amount of BAME coaches compared to the overwhelmingly large amount of white coaches.

There is minimal progression available to BAME players to get into coaching, something that is supported by the numbers of them in coaching and the amount of BAME players who come out and support this view.

[Smiley Culture]

I wonder how many club boards are ‘scared’ to employ a BAME manager for the fear that when the club sacks the manager, they’ll be accused of racism? 

Paul Ince and Sol Campbell are forever beating the drum about BAME Managers not getting an opportunity but Ince has had his and has been awful at most clubs he’s been at and Campbell is finding it hard to get a first job in Football, the same problem many wannabe managers experience in the hunt for their first job.

There is a merry-go-round for Football managers and it’s hard to get on to but if you’re on it, you’re laughing as the continued appointments of David Moyes, Sam Allardyce, Mark Hughes and Alan Pardew have proven. It’s a tough industry to get into but I don’t see Campbell actively pursuing jobs, he’s never, as far as I know, worked for a club as a coach or a youth coach, so he is going to have a harder chance than someone who’s managed a club or has had experience in a coaching set-up. 

[Danny]

2 hours ago, Cannabis said:

Ashley Cole is still playing. 

Rio Ferdinand is a successful pundit

David James is a manager 

Jermaine Jenas is a successful pundit

Wright-Phillips is still playing

Emile Heskey is a coach

Sorry that facts don't fit the agenda of that long post, nice effort though.

 

You're aware being a pundit isn't a reason to not get into coaching right? I.e. Gary and Phil Neville, Steve G....

David James is a manager in India, hardly cause to celebrate the path of BAME players into British coaching and managerial roles you dildo.

There is no agenda, just the fact that BAME players don't have the same pathway and progression to becoming coaches and managers that white players do. That's a fact Nigel, now go throw some fish into the Thames.

[The Artful Dodger]

11 hours ago, Danny said:

Look at how many BAME players there are through the league's, England team of old had Cole, Ferdinand, Campbell, James, Richards, Vassel, Dyer, Jenas, Wright-Phillips, Heskey....just off the top of my head. I know a couple are still playing but how many do you see in coaching set ups around the country, closing in on management? Ryan Giggs walked into the Wales job, Gerrard being made for the Liverpool job. You just don't see black players of that calibre being offered those opportunities.

Then there's the large amount of BAME players through the professional ranks and non-league in England, currently our starting eleven at any one time can generally have (when fully fit) 7 first team players who are BAME, 5 of which are English. Most clubs around the country will have similar numbers and it's been like that for years...but where are they in management?

The likes of Chris Powell, Sol Campbell, Paul Ince etc are using their influence to change thought processes and open doors up for tomorrow's BAME coaching and managerial candidates.

Im not a fan of having to quota in people, but this has been an issue for years now and still hasn't been fixed so the need to have them fast tracked into these positions to allow a pathway for others to work up the ladder is there.

Giggs is mixed race, although you wouldn't know it.

It's a difficult one, I'm not against it per se, there are obviously plenty of talented coaches we're missing out on but top down blanket quotas from the pretty much all white FA may not be the answer. Have the FA consulted grassroots coaches, non-white former pros about this? 

The crusty old guard that keeps people like Allardyce and Pardew in jobs clearly needs to be smashed to pieces though.

 

[Spike]

13 hours ago, Danny said:

Mate loads of people assume he's white British until a news story pops up showing his heritage.

Thats not an argument, nurses don't end their career to then become a doctor. You generally become one or the other. Playing the game is a pathway to coaching, if black players aren't becoming coaches in decent numbers then there is a problem as that is not natural progression.

It's not about national population, it's about the large amount of BAME players compared to white players and then the small amount of BAME coaches compared to the overwhelmingly large amount of white coaches.

There is minimal progression available to BAME players to get into coaching, something that is supported by the numbers of them in coaching and the amount of BAME players who come out and support this view.

Not exactly my point, Mr Molyneux. The point was despite being in closely link occupations in the same field there is still a discrepancy in the ration.