Ballon d'Or 2018 Winner: Luka Modrić

[Azeem]

@SirBalon @The Rebel CRS

An argument i had with someone. 

Does Messi not winning for Argentina is also because he never played under a manager the likes of Maradona or Kempes had Bilardo and Menotti ?

I said that to which i got the reply Bilardo was made famous by Maradona the sides he manged were not famous before. Your thoughts. 

 

[SirBalon]

21 minutes ago, Azeem said:

@SirBalon @The Rebel CRS

An argument i had with someone. 

Does Messi not winning for Argentina is also because he never played under a manager the likes of Maradona or Kempes had Bilardo and Menotti ?

I said that to which i got the reply Bilardo was made famous by Maradona the sides he manged were not famous before. Your thoughts. 

 

That’s a very complicated and also very long answer as to the opposing influence Bilardismo and Menottismo have had in Argentinian football. What’s for sure is that on the international scene it’s Carlos Bilardo the one that’s come out victorious. The two opposing spectrums with these two are to do with philosophical outlooks on the game. 

Messi was brought up tactically in every aspect in Spain. It’s difficult to ascertain as to any influences in his football where those two are concerned but if it’s got to be one it’d be Menotti the best fit.

Argentina do not play either Bilardo’s vision of football or Menotti’s right now. Infact nobody knows what football they play!

What we can say for sure (100%) is that Maradona has absolutely no influence (never has done) in anything at all to do with the way Argentina play or influence on any player. 

[Azeem]

8 hours ago, SirBalon said:

That’s a very complicated and also very long answer as to the opposing influence Bilardismo and Menottismo have had in Argentinian football. What’s for sure is that on the international scene it’s Carlos Bilardo the one that’s come out victorious. The two opposing spectrums with these two are to do with philosophical outlooks on the game. 

Messi was brought up tactically in every aspect in Spain. It’s difficult to ascertain as to any influences in his football where those two are concerned but if it’s got to be one it’d be Menotti the best fit.

Argentina do not play either Bilardo’s vision of football or Menotti’s right now. Infact nobody knows what football they play!

What we can say for sure (100%) is that Maradona has absolutely no influence (never has done) in anything at all to do with the way Argentina play or influence on any player. 

?

[SirBalon]

27 minutes ago, Azeem said:

?

Well he hasn't... He's always been a terrible coach and as a player he had nothing to do with how they played.

[Azeem]

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

Well he hasn't... He's always been a terrible coach and as a player he had nothing to do with how they played.

I've always heard that in 1986 Maradona was not on the Argentine team rather he was the Argentine team. 

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Azeem said:

I've always heard that in 1986 Maradona was not on the Argentine team rather he was the Argentine team. 

Yeah I know.  He was the deciding factor but all those stories about this being an average team are ridiculous. Put it this way... That Argentina side was more balanced than the one we have today.

[Cicero]

You realise Maradona cheated his way to the final you miserable broken record? 

[Guest]

I've always wondered if we can go 7 days without having to read the same shit.

[Cicero]

8 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

You realise messi's Barcelona has a plethora of questionable calls ? Chelsea, RM, and PSG have been robbed by uefalona but that's never brought up, only the accomplishments. So why should it be different for Maradona ? 

The one barometer you are using to rank Maradona over Messi, is a competition the former intentionally cheated to win. That is borderline pathetic. 

Forget the goal scoring, forget the consistency, forget the assists, forget the fact that at Messi's age Maradona was a fat drug addict hasbeen, forget all that in which Messi edges over Maradona. Messi has never deliberately cheated to win the world cup so he will never be greater.

Yup. Great rational there 

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Blue said:

I've always wondered if we can go 7 days without having to read the same shit.

Likewise, you don't have to get involved or make a comment about it each time...

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

The one barometer you are using to rank Maradona over Messi, is a competition the former intentionally cheated to win. 

That is borderline pathetic. 

Forget the goal scoring, forget the consistency, forget the assists, forget the fact that at Messi's age Maradona was a fat old hasbeen, forget all that in which Messi edges over Maradona. Messi has never deliberately cheated to win the world cup so he will never be greater. 

Maradona was better than Messi, from what I have seen. He was more technical and played for weaker teams at club level (for the most part) but it has nothing to do with who won the World Cup. It's like saying that Maradona never won the champions league or the Copa Libertadores, so he can't be the greatest either.

[Azeem]

Both of them haven't won the Copa America 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Stan said:

Likewise, you don't have to get involved or make a comment about it each time...

Fair enough I won't carry on with those extra comments from here.

I would like to ask though - have you ever considered that it might be ruining other people's enjoyment of the forum? That it dilutes discussion and derail threads? Every single topic now is the same shit about Messi not being a leader. It is boring.

Anyways, you don't need to answer. It's just for curiousity sake, not a dig. If you want we can drop it there.

[Guest]

Just now, Azeem said:

Both of them haven't won the Copa America 

Wasn't Diego missing from the squad when they won it at one point? I can't recall.

[Azeem]

3 minutes ago, Blue said:

Wasn't Diego missing from the squad when they won it at one point? I can't recall.

I believe Copa America wasn't considered that important in his times or maybe what Cicero said he was a fat drug addict hasbeen then? They won it twice in 1991 and 1993 but he wasn't on the squad both times 

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, Blue said:

Maradona was better than Messi, from what I have seen. He was more technical 

Disagree entirely. 

Just now, Teso dos Bichos said:

Consistency Cicero says:

The greatest but no goals after the group round in the WC?

Greatest but cannot step up in finals for Argentina ?

THE greatest BUT has never scored against the rivals Brazil in a WCQ match?

  

Messi has averaged 51 goals a season since he was 21.... Maradona's highest ever goal scoring season in Europe was 21 goals. 

At 31 years of age, Messi is on his way winning a record 6th Ballon d'Or....At 31 years of age, Maradona was serving a cocaine ban and made a mediocre return to football with Sevilla. 

Consistency Cicero Says 

 

[Guest]

Just now, Cicero said:

Disagree entirely

 

Each to their own mate but like I mentioned Maradona hasn't won as much as Messi. He's just won that one prestigious prize that everyone views as a godsend.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Maradona's got the best highlight reel in football, some of the stuff he did is incredible. You compare a "best of Maradona" to a "best of Messi" video and Maradona comes off looking like the far better player.

But you've also got to consider that the sport's changed a shitload since then, players are all much more athletic - so Messi's doing it up against defenders who are much more athletic. But by the same token, Maradona had to deal with challenges that would be immediate red cards. It's tough to judge them based on anything other than pure statistics.

And when you do judge based purely on statistics, @Cicero is spot fucking on - Maradona doesn't even come close to comparing.

Also I don't know if it's just because I think international football is a nuisance 99% of the time, but I don't think the World Cup should be the determinative factor on who was the best player in a calendar year - so for some reason, Messi and Salah's incredible seasons aren't as important as the contributions of other players like Modric? Salah plays for fucking Egypt, they were one of the worst sides I've seen in a world cup... let alone this world cup. I'm not surprised he had a bad season. Messi played poorly in an Argentina side where pretty much nobody played well. I thought it was a team fucking sport, but no apparently those countries being totally shite is all on the 2 world class players in those sides. Take these 2 players out of Barca and LFC and where would they be last season? Take Modric out of Real Madrid and where would Real Madrid be? Modric is a brilliant player and one of the best central midfielders in the world, maybe they wouldn't have won a 3rd CL title in a row. But I think odds are you take Ronaldo and his goals out of last year's Madrid, and you're taking a hell of a lot away from that Madrid.

Yeah, I know these awards tend to favour goalscorers. But I don't know who the fuck else you'd give it to other than Messi/Ronaldo/Salah - you put those players on another club and I guarantee you that none of Barca, Real Madrid, or Liverpool would have had the seasons they had last season (unless you gave us Messi, gave Madrid Salah, and gave Ronaldo to Barca).

If anything, Argentina's shite performance in the World Cup indicates that the manager and players around Messi are so bad that not even Messi could carry them to have a chance of success. I think that's more damning for the players who were alongside Messi than for Messi himself.

[SirBalon]

27 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

Messi's teammates are to blame for the PK miss? Or the horrible free kick by Messi in a CRUCIAL WQC match?

It's never Messi's fault, even though much of the argie media said the opposite (MESSI was holding back the rest of the team) his half ass performances and his desire to be a caudillo when he clearly ain't made is why Argentina failed, not the rest of the team.   

A player is to blame for a penalty miss?

Do you have any idea how many legends of the game you're throwing under the bus mate?  It's no wonder you like Mourinho so much.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

A player is to blame for a penalty miss?

Do you have any idea how many legends of the game you're throwing under the bus mate?  It's no wonder you like Mourinho so much.

I'm surprised he's not blaming Messi for Mascherano being woefully out of position for pretty much the entire tournament...

[SirBalon]

Argentina (World Cup Winner 1978) and Valencia legend Mario Kempes in an interview with ESPN and later on Spanish radio about his autobiography and other things a few hours ago;

"Everytime Maradona opens his mouth it's a problem.  He has no respect and to be honest, he's never had any respect for anyone other than himself and those few others nobody would even lift the tip of their cap to acknowledge, controversial people like himself, unsavoury to say the least."

"He always talks about Messi and it's almost like the words of a madman because one day he talks about Lionel as if he's a god, a saintly messianic figure and a week later in another interview he leaves Messi's name in the mud."

"Maradona doesn't seem to remember his own actions during his footballing career because they weren't all pretty shapes floating in fluffy clouds like his football was.  How Argentina tumbled out of a World Cup because of cheating with drugs or all the other countless things he infamously done.  He has always been respected in Argentina and never has anyone of note ever said a bad word about him, certainly not present or past players for Argentina.  But yet he feels he is the judge and jury when the cables backfire in his head to say what he wants in any way he wants to say it."

"In sport and especially in football sometimes you win and sometimes you lose because otherwise it wouldn't be the sport loved by billions all over the world.  There are times in life when you should shut your mouth and just enjoy the sport for what it is without moaning and looking for scapegoats in every corner while assuming unworthy godly purity for yourself."

 

[Harry]

I could see diego getting along well with the current POTUS.

Both are so radically strong and wildly inconsistent in their opinions on things. 

[Azeem]

Maradona once said people in charge of football in Argentina know about the game as much people running the sport in Pakistan. 

He gave our example, OUR 

[SirBalon]

According to those very close to Diego Maradona, the ex Argentina legend is apparently going to call Lionel Messi to apologise for his latest verbal attack via the media.

Maradona is completely off his nut!  Honestly... They should take samples from his brain when he leaves us so as to detect total unbalance.

[Cicero]

Rumored Varane, Mbappe, and Modric the final three